50 years to the day

[gravitylover]

Go back through history and find me a war where the country whose borders were breached and atrocities were committed and citizens were massacred that continued supplying utilities, food and aid to that enemy? Find me one that notified their enemy that they are going to commit an act of defense, now known as retaliatory bombing, before it happened. Then maybe find one that notified their enemy that they are going to invade. C'mon...

[shroom]

people need a place to exist, but that’s not the goal of any governing entity today. no one is planning for their people outside the manufacturing of cities in china, which has obv missed the mark

we’re no different in the US, the homeless generation just isn’t killing us yet, our cities aren’t set up to function either from a bottoms up perspective

but we’re pussies and change nothing

[mcphee]

Go back through history and find me a war where the country whose borders were breached and atrocities were committed and citizens were massacred that continued supplying utilities, food and aid to that enemy? Find me one that notified their enemy that they are going to commit an act of defense, now known as retaliatory bombing, before it happened. Then maybe find one that notified their enemy that they are going to invade. C'mon...

Not every Palestinian is a terrorist hell bent on a world wide caliphate.

ETA: Netanyahu has propped up Hamas as strategy against a two state solution

https://www.vox.com/23910085/netanya...za-war-history

.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

this is AKA the clueless American syndrome

Probably you are trying to say that 90% of Canadians live within 100kms of the 49th parallel

I think he’s trying to say that a majority live south of 49. It’s 70%.

I’m not sure why you guys engage Montuckey, he’s a binary thinker and driven by emotion.

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[rod9301]

I can’t bear to watch, but as a reminder, Hamas is posting videos of kidnapped, Jewish babies, probably murdered their parents. Posting fucking videos.

This has nothing to do with 2000 yrs of history, the people of Gaza have had a week to leave, the fuckers in those videos need to die.

Yeah, they had a week to leave, but Israel does not allow them there, do the only way out is to Egypt. One road to everyday 2 million people?



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[MultiVerse]

Iranian Foreign Minister Hossein Amirabdollahian met with Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh in Doha, Qatar today.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle...tv-2023-10-14/


Iran's state broadcaster is urging Iranian citizens to sign up and express their preparedness for being enlisted and sent to the war against Israel. A similar campaign had been launched by the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps Fars News Agency.

[PNWbrit]

"Russia has asked the United Nations security council to vote on Monday on a draft resolution on the Israel-Hamas conflict that calls for a humanitarian ceasefire and condemns violence against civilians and all acts of terrorism."

Fuck Putin.

[californiagrown]

Why is it so hard to grasp that a responsible democratic country should have higher moral standards and behave better than terrorists?

On a macro level yes. On a micro level, when it's your child and wife that were killed, you DGAF about holding the moral/ethical high ground. And this latest attack feels very personal to Israelis.

Israel has set up "safe zones" within Gaza for civilians to flee to, right?

[ex-powderbroker]

Attachment 472663

https://x.com/ericlevitz/status/1712...sR_NcRK2VkCfkg

i went to find his original statement

“It is an entire nation out there that is responsible,” Herzog said at a press conference on Friday. “It is not true this rhetoric about civilians not being aware, not involved. It’s absolutely not true. They could have risen up. They could have fought against that evil regime which took over Gaza in a coup d’etat.”

When a reporter asked Herzog to clarify whether he meant to say that since Gazans did not remove Hamas from power “that makes them, by implication, legitimate targets,” the Israeli president claimed, “No, I didn’t say that.””


I don’t think it’s as clear as saying israelis are all settlers and valid military targets.

but i sure wish they’d take a deep breath by now.

ETA: the fake pics and videos are coming out in force from gaza today. already saw a few debunked and it will only get worse.

plenty of real misery, no need to fake it. even better, stop.

[Core Shot]

I hate it when holocaust survivors speak truth



Hate all you want. Stumbled upon this. Found it fascinating

[MagnificentUnicorn]

I hate it when holocaust survivors speak truth



Hate all you want. Stumbled upon this. Found it fascinating

Is this something that you’ve just become aware of?


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[Core Shot]

Is this something that you’ve just become aware of?


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No. Well yes. I’ve never heard from him before.
But he speaks truth. As a baby that survived the nazi death camps. Literally.
And yet he sees the other side. With compassion

[Core Shot]

His wiki is interesting.
Worth a goog

But he seems legit in terms of having a microphone on this shitshow

Maté was born in Budapest, Hungary, in 1944.[6][7] His maternal grandparents were killed in Auschwitz when he was five months old.[7] His aunt disappeared during the war, and his father endured forced labour at the hands of the Nazi Party.[8] When he was 1, Maté's mother put him in the care of a stranger for over 5 weeks in order to save his life. Upon their reunion, the infant Maté was so hurt that he avoided looking at his mother for several days. He claims this trauma of "abandonment, rage, and despair" continues to manifest in his adult life, leading to similar altercations when he perceives a threat of abandonment, especially from his wife.[9]

[MagnificentUnicorn]

No. Well yes. I’ve never heard from him before.
But he speaks truth. As a baby that survived the nazi death camps. Literally.
And yet he sees the other side. With compassion

Lots of people are speaking about this objectively. You can have empathy for the people of Israel in regards to this latest atrocity while at the same time understanding the history and having empathy for the people that identify as Palestinian.

Neither view should be labeled as anti semitic, everyone involved is Semitic


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[MultiVerse]

But he seems legit in terms of having a microphone on this shitshow

Your source neglects to mention and/or misrepresents what happened after Hamas was elected.

Hamas ran a campaign based on peace with Israel. They told Palestinians during the campaign Hamas stood for a a two-state solution. That they were now peaceful and no longer interested in an Islamic state. Hamas said they would no longer attack Israel if Israel stopped incursions in Palestinian towns and villages. Hamas told Israel and Washington they would accept a Palestinian state based on the 1967 borders including a truce with Israel. They even promoted a Christian Palestinian as a member of Hamas.

They lied about everything. As soon as Hamas won election they turned Gaza into a mafia state and created terror cells. Then they started attacking other Palestinian political groups in Gaza following the same script. They agreed to a truce with Fatah (the PLO) and a 6-month truce, once again, with Israel. They used the truce to end any remaining Palestinian political opposition in Gaza. On the day the truce with Israel expired they attacked again.

Hamas kills any political opponents in Gaza and refuses to hold elections. After Hamas won their election they turned Gaza into a dictatorship.

[mcphee]

^that netanyahu supported because neither side wants a two state solution. It gives him the justification for forced expulsion and genocide.

[ex-powderbroker]

netanyahu doesn’t want a two state solution. other pm’s did. Olmert and Rabin made strong offers. The whole thing is a travesty.

[gretch6364]

Yes and no. Lots of pent up anger predated by a desire to remove Jews from Muslim lands.

I believe you meant to say remove the Jews from their lands and take it. Muhammed supposedly spending a night in Jerusalem doesn't make it theirs.

[MultiVerse]

^that netanyahu supported because neither side wants a two state solution. It gives him the justification for forced expulsion and genocide.

Yeah, that's been mentioned many times in this thread. Netanyahu is a strongman who runs a divisive populist government.

“America cannot protect Israel in the long run unless Israel has a government that reflects the best, not the worst, of its society, and unless that government is ready to try to forge compromises with the best, not the worst, of Palestinian society.”

I believe you meant to say remove the Jews from their lands and take it. Muhammed supposedly spending a night in Jerusalem doesn't make it theirs.

You're cherry-picking the argument. In the post you quoted I'm describing the Arab position before Israel became a state. I'm also describing the Arab the position, not my own. And no, not just Israel, Arab leaders wanted to remove all Jews from the Middle East entirely. About 500,000 Jews were forced from their homes in the Middle East and North Africa while at the same time about 700,000 Palestinians were forced from their homes in what is now Israel.

[Cono Este]

This is going to be fuckimgn gnarlly.

Sending a second aircraft carrier. With Israel, you’ve got over 500 fighter\attack aircraft.

Bob, whatever his name is, Syrians/cia guy says this could take months.

No Fucking way Hezbollah sits this out. Serious strain on other Arab relations and turkey.

Gonna need an airbridge to resupply.

Europe better step up and supply Ukraine.

Bad, bad, bad.

[J. Barron DeJong]

Too much to comment on since I was away!

Two things:

I believe mcphee stated my position as being any bombing of Gaza would be a war crime. (Apologies if I have the wrong person, or misstating.) That isn’t my position. Indiscriminate bombing, a la Dresden (or at least what most people think of when they hear Dresden) is probably a war crime (probably because I haven’t gone to verify the law here), but even if not a war crime, I’d personally consider that immoral.

But if it’s a legitimate strategic military target, then that gets into the decision process that was detailed in the thread from the Israeli soldier that I posted. I believe in that case it’s not necessarily a war crime (though again, haven’t checked the law) even if there is an expectation that civilians will be killed.

The second thing is: once again today I find myself on the same side as Rod. Weird.

[J. Barron DeJong]

And Putin. Blessed are the peacemakers.

I don’t agree about a ceasefire, but I do think that any action taken should have a plan for achieving a specific desired strategic outcome.

Regarding civilians, I think I’ve stated my position several times now.

[mcphee]

deleting a post after being quoted has to be embarrassing. Binary brained emotion driven armchair foreign policy makers.

[MultiVerse]

Not at all. I deleted before he posted his response. I knew he would read it and intended it as a joke, not to add to the discussion. As for "binary brained," you haven''t been paying attention.

[Cono Este]

Too much to comment on since I was away!

Two things:

I believe mcphee stated my position as being any bombing of Gaza would be a war crime. (Apologies if I have the wrong person, or misstating.) That isn’t my position. Indiscriminate bombing, a la Dresden (or at least what most people think of when they hear Dresden) is probably a war crime (probably because I haven’t gone to verify the law here), but even if not a war crime, I’d personally consider that immoral.

But if it’s a legitimate strategic military target, then that gets into the decision process that was detailed in the thread from the Israeli soldier that I posted. I believe in that case it’s not necessarily a war crime (though again, haven’t checked the law) even if there is an expectation that civilians will be killed.

The second thing is: once again today I find myself on the same side as Rod. Weird.

Hey man, my grandad flew that raid. He said they started it when asked about it.

Too bad they’re not fighting any kind of legitimate military, and the legitimate targets are beneath the ground and city.

All this shit should have been dealt with when Hamas took over. Instead we built an iron dome, some walls, and told Israelis to live with it. The bleeding heart NGO’s didn’t help either.