50 years to the day

[MultiVerse]

If I am reading correctly this states that Hamas set up roadblocks inside Gaza? Hindering its own citizens?

There are satellite mages as well as social media reports from Gazans of roadblocks. Slowed down footage shows Hamas detonated a Vehicle Borne Improvised Explosive Device (VBIED) over a bridge to stop people from evacuating south. The video was originally posted online claiming it was an Israeli air strike.

[Core Shot]

Did you just edit your post I replied to? I don’t recall anything about PVC or making this shit in your garage. Pretty sure you said “we shouldn’t paint them and just send em” (paraphrase) “We” implying US defense contractors.

No edits. Just seemed like plastic water pipe. Might have some metal. But most all pipe I see these days is plastic.

It was just my reaction to the video where a dude is airless spraying a missile. I guess maybe it’s just pride in his handy work. Or some shit. Hard to say anymore. Shits complicated. I feel bad for both sides. No whataboutism. Just average people getting fucked.

[J. Barron DeJong]

From a Muslim scholar (but no source provided, so maybe a bit of caution is warranted):



https://x.com/gnuseibeh/status/17130...sR_NcRK2VkCfkg

[ex-powderbroker]

Why is it so hard to grasp that a responsible democratic country should have higher moral standards and behave better than terrorists?

equating the two while israel does knock bombs and calls for evacuations while hamas imprisons their own and hostages shows that you are wrong, they are not the same and your comparison here is disgusting.

and i would strongly prefer a deescalation, no bombs, no ground war, etc.

the problem is when a country is attacked by a neighboring govt, it is hard to slow the quest for vengeance

[MontuckyFried]

Why is it so hard to grasp that a responsible democratic country should have higher moral standards and behave better than terrorists?

Are Israeli soldiers running around raping and beheading yet? Do you suggest they fight with both hands tied behind their back? Israel has been TRYING to tell civilians to GTFO before striking. Once again, it's Hamas that is screwing over their own people. Egypt ain't helping matters either with their Muslim brothers trying to flee, but perhaps it's understandable given the threat of terrorists flowing in along with the civilians. And of course no freaking way does Israel want to just let them flow in to THEIR side since most Palestinians kind of hate Jews and the Israeli nation, and again, that whole terrorist thing.

Shitty situation for sure, but Hamas is to blame first and foremost. THEY are the ones who attack first and then purposefully hide behind their own civilians. And for the umpteenth time, Israel left the Gaza strip nearly 2 decades ago. Hamas is who the people elected to represent them.

[J. Barron DeJong]

equating the two while israel does knock bombs and calls for evacuations while hamas imprisons their own and hostages shows that you are wrong, they are not the same and your comparison here is disgusting.

and i would strongly prefer a deescalation, no bombs, no ground war, etc.

the problem is when a country is attacked by a neighboring govt, it is hard to slow the quest for vengeance

I am not equating the two, at all.

I am saying Israel should maintain their moral framework and still keep civilian casualties in mind when making their military decisions. They developed it and put it into in place for a reason.

Others here seem to be arguing that civilian casualties should not be part of the decision making process at all. Or that there is no such thing as an innocent Palestinian.

[J. Barron DeJong]

Are Israeli soldiers running around raping and beheading yet? Do you suggest they fight with both hands tied behind their back? Israel has been TRYING to tell civilians to GTFO before striking. Once again, it's Hamas that is screwing over their own people. Egypt ain't helping matters either with their Muslim brothers trying to flee, but perhaps it's understandable given the threat of terrorists flowing in along with the civilians. And of course no freaking way does Israel want to just let them flow in to THEIR side since most Palestinians kind of hate Jews and the Israeli nation, and again, that whole terrorist thing.

Shitty situation for sure, but Hamas is to blame first and foremost. THEY are the ones who attack first and then purposefully hide behind their own civilians. And for the umpteenth time, Israel left the Gaza strip nearly 2 decades ago. Hamas is who the people elected to represent them.

Please actually read what I post.

Maybe also consider the sources I post, like Israeli soldiers, and Israeli intelligence chiefs.

[MontuckyFried]

Please actually read what I post.

I did, and it sure read as if you are insinuating that Israel should have higher moral standards and behave better than the terrorists AS IF THEY DON'T. Otherwise, why does it even need to be said unless you think they are or are even remotely approaching Hamas levels of evil? They are not. They're not even in the same ballpark. Perhaps if you don't want to be misunderstood, then maybe quit being so ambiguous in your posts. Sometimes it appears like you're trying to see it from both sides of this one in a quest to be fair to everyone.

[Core Shot]

The missile strikes in Gaza were horrific.
But I’m sure they targeted known Hamas locations and tunnels and bunkers.
Skip the ground war. Turn on the water and electric in exchange for hostage surrender.

[MultiVerse]

For what it's worth Gaza also gets power from Egypt, which is still on.

[mcphee]

the dumbest back pedaling bullshit you’ve ever heard

Shut da fuq up

[Core Shot]

Shut da fuq up

I don’t backpedal. FYI
Sometimes I clarify. When my ideas aren’t conveyed.

Tell me what I backpedaled?

[J. Barron DeJong]

Others whose voices I’ve highlighted here:

Matthew Yglesias - Jewish
Jonathan Chait - Jewish
Josh Marshall - Jewish
Yair Rosenberg - Jewish

But yeah, maybe I’m a closeted anti-Semite for having similar views and values.

[J. Barron DeJong]

I did, and it sure read as if you are insinuating that Israel should have higher moral standards and behave better than the terrorists AS IF THEY DON'T.

What have I said that insinuates that?

And when someone says that being concerned with Palestinian civilians being killed is being a terrorist sympathizer, I think it deserves pushback.

[Core Shot]

Others whose voices I’ve highlighted here:

Matthew Yglesias - Jewish
Jonathan Chait - Jewish
Josh Marshall - Jewish
Yair Rosenberg - Jewish

But yeah, maybe I’m a closeted anti-Semite for having similar views and values.

That’s the crazy part. My two best friends in the world are Jewish. And I’ve told them face to face I love Jews. But I have issues with zionists. Maybe they’re not real Jews. Too reformed. Not orthodox enough.

Shits complicated. Even worse on a ski forum.

I just want peace. And powder.
The Hamas shit was insane. But it’s pent up anger. Not justified. Horror. Fuckkkk. I wish there was an answer.

[Cono Este]

I can’t bear to watch, but as a reminder, Hamas is posting videos of kidnapped, Jewish babies, probably murdered their parents. Posting fucking videos.

This has nothing to do with 2000 yrs of history, the people of Gaza have had a week to leave, the fuckers in those videos need to die.

[subtle plague]

This thread bears a sad similarity to the bitcoin thread, alas the topic is a lot darker.

Don barron de la jongcha fighting the wind mills of stupidity. [emoji6]

[gravitylover]

Send this fucking thread to Polyass where it belongs. It may have started with good intentions "But".

Then the Ukraine thread should go too.

[MultiVerse]

The Hamas shit was insane. But it’s pent up anger.

Yes and no. Lots of pent up anger predated by a desire to remove Jews from Muslim lands. Don't be deluded into thinking Hamas has some concern for the welfare of its own people. Hamas is an Islamic supremacy group.

Most of the discussion ignores Hamas's stated reason for the massacre. Hamas calls this campaign “Operation Al-Aqsa Deluge.” They hope to spark a larger war that will eventually lead to the destruction of Israel.

There's been a lot of talk of Zionism and 1948. The other less talked about history is the fact Arabs refused any attempts to share the land after Ottoman rule ended. After WW1 Jewish leaders proposed a deal with less land than Jews were living on at the time, much less land than the later U.N. resolution which set off the 1947 civil war and the 1948 Arab invasion.

For Arab leaders at the time and for Hamas today the stated reason for fighting against Israel is to drive infidels from the Muslim holy land. Here's one of those scroll through picture articles on the Temple Mount and Al-Aqsa:

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/...f-bfee95510000

It's a metaphor for the intractable nature of the conflict.

[J. Barron DeJong]

This thread bears a sad similarity to the bitcoin thread, alas the topic is a lot darker.

Don barron de la jongcha fighting the wind mills of stupidity. [emoji6]

Personal failing of mine

[mcphee]

This thread bears a sad similarity to the bitcoin thread, alas the topic is a lot darker.

Don barron de la jongcha fighting the wind mills of stupidity. [emoji6]

That’s not what he’s doing. It is possible to think that Israeli apartheid must end now, and that the bombing of Gaza is a war crime AND also think that Hamas indiscriminately murdering civilians is a war crime. It’s not a paradox or a logic puzzle. Its a basic, consistent moral position.

[heckacali]

Then the Ukraine thread should go too.

And the "this day in Canada" thread...
which is mostly about Canada politics at this point.

but like Canada politics in general, not many people pay any attention to it ... 😁

[MontuckyFried]

It is possible to think that Israeli apartheid must end now

So many throw around the "apartheid" term indiscriminately, and I'm not sure Israel is how people think it is. They have a large, integrated Arab population and about 18% of the population is Muslim. They are quite involved in the government and day to day life. Now as far as PALESTINIANS go, that's tougher when by past polling data, the vast majority of Palestineans do not believe a 2-state solution is possible, and furthermore believe Palestine solely has the rightful claim to the entire land. The whole "From the River to the Sea" chant you hear at every rally is not simply rhetoric. They mean it quite literally. That only happens via the elimination of Israel, and they ain't interested in letting the Jews hang around either if that were to happen. Again, this is according to numerous polls conducted.

and that the bombing of Gaza is a war crime

How so? Please elaborate. There was an official declaration of war made. I'm not sure how bombing Hamas targets is a war crime. PARTICULARLY when they announce ahead of time when/where they're striking in an effort to get civilians out of the buildings first. If Hamas blocks them from leaving trying to use them as human shields, that's on Hamas. Not on Israel.

Only Israel tries to protect human lives, on both sides at that. Hamas uses those same human lives to shield themselves.

[XXX-er]

And I'm not really sure where Canada is either. Do most Canadians live further south or further north of the American border?

this is AKA the clueless American syndrome

Probably you are trying to say that 90% of Canadians live within 100kms of the 49th parallel

[mcphee]

So many throw around the "apartheid" term indiscriminately, and I'm not sure Israel is how people think it is. They have a large, integrated Arab population and about 18% of the population is Muslim. They are quite involved in the government and day to day life. Now as far as PALESTINIANS go, that's tougher when by past polling data, the vast majority of Palestineans do not believe a 2-state solution is possible, and furthermore believe Palestine solely has the rightful claim to the entire land. The whole "From the River to the Sea" chant you hear at every rally is not simply rhetoric. They mean it quite literally. That only happens via the elimination of Israel, and they ain't interested in letting the Jews hang around either if that were to happen. Again, this is according to numerous polls conducted.

Palestinians are segregated to certain areas of the country and have less rights than Israelis.
A lot of parallels to S. Africa. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apartheid

How so? Please elaborate. There was an official declaration of war made. I'm not sure how bombing Hamas targets is a war crime. PARTICULARLY when they announce ahead of time when/where they're striking in an effort to get civilians out of the buildings first. If Hamas blocks them from leaving trying to use them as human shields, that's on Hamas. Not on Israel.

Only Israel tries to protect human lives, on both sides at that. Hamas uses those same human lives to shield themselves.

They’re indiscriminately bombing civilian neighborhoods and buildings to root out Hamas fighters. Ordering 1.1 million people to evacuate in 24 hours with no where to go is an impossibility.

Please remember that, yes, Hamas was democratically elected, but once Hamas set up a governing body, they’ve had no elections since. Not every Palestinian is a terrorist hell bent on a world wide caliphate.

ETA: Netanyahu has propped up Hamas as strategy against a two state solution

https://www.vox.com/23910085/netanya...za-war-history