50 years to the day

[Cisco Kid]

Think MAGA but 180 degrees.

[Foggy_Goggles]

It is so fucked. This take is scary. Extended ground war between Israel, HAMAS and Hezbollah. As in there is no other option.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EL-KQHTnFEE

[MultiVerse]

Pres. Biden reportedly flying to Israel on Wednesday. No reporting type of transportation for obvious reasons but aircraft are within MANPAD range over Tel Aviv. I think El Al is the only commercial airline still flying to Tel Aviv. Military transport aircraft are dispensing chaff / popping flares during approach and takeoff.

[Cono Este]

I think that’s very brave, that’s leadership, but worrisome.

[JimmyCarter]

Oh great, he’s gonna be the next Franz Ferdinand

[Doremite]

I think there may be more than one Franz Ferdinand. One a rocker and one a world war starter?

[The Reverend Floater]

I think there may be more than one Franz Ferdinand. One a rocker and one a world war starter?

Yeah, Biden's cocaine fueled fuckfest days ended when Obama banned sex swings from the East Wing and stole all the lube from the dispensers.

Sent from my Pixel 8 Pro using Tapatalk

[Brownski]

a dark read if you want it:

https://www.thefp.com/p/daniel-pearl...hamas-idealism

That is worth reading.

[Lvovsky]

a dark read if you want it:

https://www.thefp.com/p/daniel-pearl...hamas-idealism

Thank you for sharing. Definitely resonated.

And worth quoting:


How wrong I was. This past week, as over 1,300 Jews were slaughtered, the most murderous attack on Jews since the Holocaust, I saw the true face of Palestinians and their allies. All around the world, they celebrate. They gloat. They mock our tears. They do not protest against Hamas. They embrace pure evil.

And so, to the terrorists I now say:
When you killed my family, I forgave you.
When you killed my people, I forgave you.
But when you killed my idealism, I had no forgiveness left.

To non-Jewish friends who have reached out, thank you. It is simply the human thing to do. To friends who dare justify what has happened, you are not friends. You are nothing but Nazi supporters dressed up in leftist intellectual language. To the Palestinians: you have lost all moral authority to claim victimhood. I will never advocate for you again. To my family, friends in Israel, and Jews around the world hurting right now, I love you. Stay safe.

[MakersTeleMark]

It is so fucked. This take is scary. Extended ground war between Israel, HAMAS and Hezbollah. As in there is no other option.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EL-KQHTnFEE

That was worth the watch. I think much of what he said in not really up for argument, but whether this should or is not able to be contained and Hezbollah goes down with it will be painful, but interesting to watch.

[Cono Este]

Thank you for sharing. Definitely resonated.

And worth quoting:


How wrong I was. This past week, as over 1,300 Jews were slaughtered, the most murderous attack on Jews since the Holocaust, I saw the true face of Palestinians and their allies. All around the world, they celebrate. They gloat. They mock our tears. They do not protest against Hamas. They embrace pure evil.

And so, to the terrorists I now say:
When you killed my family, I forgave you.
When you killed my people, I forgave you.
But when you killed my idealism, I had no forgiveness left.

To non-Jewish friends who have reached out, thank you. It is simply the human thing to do. To friends who dare justify what has happened, you are not friends. You are nothing but Nazi supporters dressed up in leftist intellectual language. To the Palestinians: you have lost all moral authority to claim victimhood. I will never advocate for you again. To my family, friends in Israel, and Jews around the world hurting right now, I love you. Stay safe.

Vibes, this has opened my eyes to many. The silence , from most, is deafening.

[Timberridge]

Is that Portland OR?

[BmillsSkier]

Is that Portland OR?

Oberlin.

Probably.

[Timberridge]

Oberlin.

Probably.

They've moved on from protesting cultural appropriation of banh mi sandwiches apparently.

[::: :::]

everything is complicated to a moron

(at the risk of defending morons…[cuz that’s not my point])

While the reaction to this Hamas attack isn’t that complicated, this whole region/relationship really is complicated & the response is going to establish what happens for the next 50yrs.

I find it hard to support a raze-the-prison-town strategy. It smacks of bullying & cruelty towards a lot of people who didn’t want to start a war.

How does Israel go after Hamas directly? No idea & that is what makes it indescribably hard to resolve this conflict.

Israel was close to a solution after the agreement with Arafat and missed the hard decision to follow through with territory concessions and the agreement despite a bus bombing by Hamas. But they returned to the previous mode of tit-for-tat.

At some point, the responsibility to respond for justice but not escalate into cruelty sits in Israel’s lap because of their disproportionate strength

“Not complicated” at all
It’s a fucking mess all around

[BmillsSkier]

They've moved on from protesting cultural appropriation of banh mi sandwiches apparently.

The world is really going to give those Oberlin kids a kick in the ass when they get out there.

[Foggy_Goggles]

Everyone is on somebody's knob. If it's up to Israel, its a ground war in Gaza and innocent residents will pay a heavy price. But what is Biden gonna whisper to Netanyahu tomorrow? Because make no mistake about it, that is why he's going. To tell Israel what the US wants.

Honest question relative to leverage, what does the US need from Israel? If we can keep Iran, China and Russia mostly on the sidelines, will we just send guns and money and let them have at it? Is Ukraine just providing a template for a proxy war?

[Core Shot]

Oh great, he’s gonna be the next Franz Ferdinand

Take me out?

[dunfree]

It is so fucked. This take is scary. Extended ground war between Israel, HAMAS and Hezbollah. As in there is no other option.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EL-KQHTnFEE

it’s scary people can’t look at a fucking map

[JimmyCarter]

[TBS]

a dark read if you want it:

https://www.thefp.com/p/daniel-pearl...hamas-idealism

It is so fucked. This take is scary. Extended ground war between Israel, HAMAS and Hezbollah. As in there is no other option.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EL-KQHTnFEE

Yeahhh…in both cases it seems like it’s become a little too personal for both of these guys. Proven fact - people don’t think as clearly when they’re pissed off.

This feels like 9/11 Deja vu.

(at the risk of defending morons…[cuz that’s not my point])

While the reaction to this Hamas attack isn’t that complicated, this whole region/relationship really is complicated & the response is going to establish what happens for the next 50yrs.

I find it hard to support a raze-the-prison-town strategy. It smacks of bullying & cruelty towards a lot of people who didn’t want to start a war.

How does Israel go after Hamas directly? No idea & that is what makes it indescribably hard to resolve this conflict.

Israel was close to a solution after the agreement with Arafat and missed the hard decision to follow through with territory concessions and the agreement despite a bus bombing by Hamas. But they returned to the previous mode of tit-for-tat.

At some point, the responsibility to respond for justice but not escalate into cruelty sits in Israel’s lap because of their disproportionate strength

“Not complicated” at all
It’s a fucking mess all around

This is my take as well. The idea that IDF can invade and “root out Hamas” sounds like Iraq c.2003.
The leadership lives in Qatar and Turkey, not in Gaza. Unless you can reach out and touch them there, they will just re-form with the huge population of disaffected young Gazan men. And the Hamas grunt soldiers know how to disappear into the population.

Thomas Freidman has a good take on it IMO

Why a Gaza Invasion and ‘Once and for All’ Thinking Are Wrong for Israel

All these Islamist/jihadist movements — the Taliban, Hamas, ISIS, Al Qaeda, Palestinian Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah, the Houthis — have deep cultural, social, religious and political roots in their societies. And they have access to endless supplies of humiliated young men, many of whom have never been in a job, power or a romantic relationship: a lethal combination that makes them easy to mobilize for mayhem.

And that’s why, to this day, none of these movements have been eliminated once and for all. They can, though, be isolated, diminished, delegitimized and decapitated — as America has done with ISIS and Al Qaeda. But that requires patience, precision, lots of allies and alternatives that have legitimacy within the societies from which these young men emerge.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/16/o...smid=url-share

Paywall removed

[dan_pdx]

Even if Israel does eliminate Hamas leadership (maybe not out of the question), it will still re-form. Leadership can be replaced just like cannon fodder, though it might take a little longer. A long-lasting solution would involve giving those disaffected young men better things to do with their time.

[ex-powderbroker]

The leadership is basically untouchable in other countries. As crazy as it is - there are groups to the right of Hamas. But, they control the schools at the moment which completely indoctrinate the young population towards hating Jews and train them from a young age in how to kill.

Instead of bombing (or a ground war), it might make sense for some sort of amnesty for informants who are in the group to escape to third party countries and a hostage exchange. The leadership will be forever marked for death but if there was enough of a power vacuum maybe it could uplift more moderate voices since they wouldn’t be under threat of death from Hamas.

An overreach by Israel if it hasn’t occurred already will push them towards more extremism. It’s hard to gauge what is the right amount of pressure. Doing nothing was not an option, but have they done enough?

There seems to be a messaging gap between Israel and the people of Gaza and an action gap between Israel and the people of the west bank whose land Bibi’s thugs keep stealing.

[Dantheman]

The idea that IDF can invade and “root out Hamas” sounds like Iraq c.2003.

Or our 20-year adventure in Afghanistan.

[Cono Este]

Iran says they are gonna do something, depending on where you get your news. Assuming they did not build a bomb yet, wtf can they do? Are they talking bout Hezbollah?

I Imagine if they have a bomb, it could be forward deployed in Syria, or Lebanon. 25% delta they’ve got a 25kt device somewhere. What a mess