Tell me one good reason why all cars aren't mandated to have daytime running lights?

[doughboyshredder]

Just to clarify, I think the original conversation concerned daytime running lamps which draw significantly less that actual headlamps on a vehicle. By my numbers, I would say the overall load is about 1/4 (25%) as as that of a standard headlamp (HID types excluded).

Why the fuck do cars even go into gear without the headlights going on?

Seems there was a difference between the title and the o.p.

You are correct, though. That is still 1/12 of a HP. Granted not much, but it still uses fuel to produce 1/12 of a HP. Except in Blurreds truck. He only drives down hill.

[MrZach]

Seems there was a difference between the title and the o.p.

You are correct, though. That is still 1/12 of a HP. Granted not much, but it still uses fuel to produce 1/12 of a HP. Except in Blurreds truck. He only drives down hill.

Win!!! oneone

[Powow]

I'm still waiting for you or dweeb boy powow to give me the gas mileage loss on my truck for using DRLs. (That's where you and he conceded the debate)

You never answered my last reply. And I was never thinking about global warming in this, just energy consumption. you can't POSSIBLY deny that reducing energy consumption is a bad thing, especially with your fixation on overpopulation. This is probably the easiest possible way to save 20+ million barrels of oil per year. Don't think of global warming blurry brain, just gas prices.

I have an idea. Why not put more powerful alternators in cars, but only run them when braking. It would save gas, and brake pads. Barely, but it would still make a difference and it would be REALLY simple to do. Like a pussy ass hybrid.

[Blurred]

Here is how you are wrong. Using electricity in your vehicle uses gas. FACT. Not disputable. Not arguable.

If you use power from your battery, that power must be replenished by the alternator. The alternator uses a magnetic coil to create this power (electricity). The alternator in turn creates a load on the engine. Unless you are going downhill your engine uses fuel to compensate for this load.

Get it?

Wow, you're a genius!! Thanks for stating the obvious! Maybe you missed my other post about other BETTER ways to save those extra two drops of fuel a year. (you can't post some shit that I've already stated that I know, and then act like I don't know it...that's why you get flamed)

Wrong. I never said it didn't create drag, but using that for argument sake is fucking retarded. If you want to split hairs arguing about something so negligible, argue these- (btw-your engine speed DOES NOT change while using electric accessories unless you drive a golf cart)

-Use a less heavy oil. It takes more gas to pump that heavier viscosity stuff.

-Wash your car. All that dirt and mud on your car leads to drag and less aerodynamics. Think of the Polar Bears!

-That little satellite radio antenna you're using? It's fucking up your gas mileage due to wind resistance. Place it inside the car to save a mile a year!!!
The polar ice caps will benefit.

-Only put 5 gallons or less of gasoline in your tank at any given time. Why put another 15-25 gallons in there? It'll take more gas to carry around all that extra weight. Like snow? Don't ruin it.

-Over inflate your tires, and put concrete in them so you don't lose any rolling ability due to tire sag. Save an iceberg!

-Do not EVER roll down your window while driving. Each time you do, it's like having DRLs on for like an infinity of hours. GLOBAL WARMING!!!!!!

You and powow should disconnect your 3rd brake light. I mean that will save energy too! That clock in your car? Unplug the fucker! Brake rotors? Grind some weight off of them! I mean, arguing about something so superficial, why stop at DRLs?!

[Blurred]

You never answered my last reply.

Your "last reply" was dodging the question. I'm still waiting on your answer I asked you.

And I was never thinking about global warming in this, just energy consumption. you can't POSSIBLY deny that reducing energy consumption is a bad thing, especially with your fixation on overpopulation. This is probably the easiest possible way to save 20+ million barrels of oil per year. Don't think of global warming blurry brain, just gas prices.

I have an idea. Why not put more powerful alternators in cars, but only run them when braking. It would save gas, and brake pads. Barely, but it would still make a difference and it would be REALLY simple to do. Like a pussy ass hybrid.

Well, of course energy conservation is always a good thing. However, there are certain things that are so superficial, they don't even warrant argument, and DRLs are one of them. You know what wastes 1000x more energy than DRLs?
Bad driving habits. Are you going to hold classes teaching people to ease onto the accelerator instead of mashing it stoplight to stoplight?

As far as saving millions of barrels of oil a year?

That's why I've been asking you guys to calculate fuel loss due to alternator drag. What most here are forgetting is very important. Gas/diesel engines are inefficient. Factors such as torque and horsepower help make them that way. What torque and horsepower lose in energy efficiency, they make up for on the back end when spinning something so minute as an alternator.
For example, my trucks engine has a lot of torque at an idle. That torque and power, however inefficient, will be there whether a tiny amount of drag is being placed on the engine from an alternator or not. The inefficiency of the mechanical motor is made up for running an alternator in this regard.
So my point is, having a powerful engine is in itself inefficient. That's how it came from the factory. You have to remember that certain types of engines aren't going to be effected by such a small factor.

Now, when you have one of your little horsepower fuel saving engines, then yes, the engine will have to adjust, because the mechanical power of the engine is so little.

Therefor, driving a small, underpowered "green friendly" car actually wastes more gas for using DRLs, than say, my ungreen friendly truck.

The solution to all of this isn't trying to find ways to conserve fuel. The solution is to develop electric battery technology to make electric cars conveniently applicable to everyday life. Produce the electric from nuclear power plants, and we're done with this bullshit.

[Blurred]

Directly from the Balmar FAQs page. http://www.balmar.net/Page46-faq.html

Blurred, I guarantee you that the supplier of Military alternators knows more about this subject than you do.

Dumbass!

Good page. I think most alternators are 55 amps if I remember correctly.
Meaning, if an alternator is running at FULL LOAD, roughly 2 HP are being used.
My truck, has 325 hp and 610 torque. I'm guessing the alternator on my truck is bigger than 55 amps....not sure exactly. BUT, running every electric accessory on it at full speed, The horsepower loss from the alternator still wouldn't even be 1%. Like I said. Negligible, marginal at best, and a ridiculous argument.

edit-also, remember the DRLs will be using a fractional percentage of the 1% energy usage stated above.

[Powow]

Your "last reply" was dodging the question. I'm still waiting on your answer I asked you.

Your question is ridiculous and you know it. It isn't even relavent.

Well, of course energy conservation is always a good thing. However, there are certain things that are so superficial, they don't even warrant argument, and DRLs are one of them. You know what wastes 1000x more energy than DRLs?
Bad driving habits. Are you going to hold classes teaching people to ease onto the accelerator instead of mashing it stoplight to stoplight?

That is true, but its much, much harder to have people do that. notice I said the easiest possible way. Its about effort vs. reward. this takes pretty much zero effort, telling people to not accelerate fast is almost impossible.

As far as saving millions of barrels of oil a year?

That's why I've been asking you guys to calculate fuel loss due to alternator drag. What most here are forgetting is very important. Gas/diesel engines are inefficient. Factors such as torque and horsepower help make them that way. What torque and horsepower lose in energy efficiency, they make up for on the back end when spinning something so minute as an alternator.
For example, my trucks engine has a lot of torque at an idle. That torque and power, however inefficient, will be there whether a tiny amount of drag is being placed on the engine from an alternator or not. The inefficiency of the mechanical motor is made up for running an alternator in this regard.
So my point is, having a powerful engine is in itself inefficient. That's how it came from the factory. You have to remember that certain types of engines aren't going to be effected by such a small factor.

You don't seem to understand that headlights will use some amount of gas proportional to the amount of power they draw, regardless of the engine. your truck uses the same amount of gas to run the headlights as a headlight equipped go cart.

Now, when you have one of your little horsepower fuel saving engines, then yes, the engine will have to adjust, because the mechanical power of the engine is so little.

Therefor, driving a small, underpowered "green friendly" car actually wastes more gas for using DRLs, than say, my ungreen friendly truck.

It wastes the exact same amount of gas. It uses a smaller portion of the gas it uses on the headlights, yes, but that is fucking retarded.

I think the REAL benefit of DRLs is that if they are always on, people won't forget to turn on their headlights at dawn/dusk when they might matter. So why not have the lights turn on or off based on a sensor, like a lot of cars already do? Then they don't run during the actual day, but are still on when needed and might be forgotten.

[Blurred]

You don't seem to understand that headlights will use some amount of gas proportional to the amount of power they draw, regardless of the engine.

How many times do I have to tell you that using electric devices DOES use gas, it's just so minuscule it's barely worth mentioning?

your truck uses the same amount of gas to run the headlights as a headlight equipped go cart.

Your logic is based on a dedicated engine to a generator/alternator.

What you're failing to grasp is that a vehicles engine isn't based around the alternator, and that is where you're wrong.

Do you think a Geo Metro pulling a 10,000 lb trailer is getting the same fuel mileage as my truck pulling a 10,000 lb trailer? That's proof that different engines are designed to pull different loads, whether the minuscule "draw" of an alternator, or a 10,000 lb trailer.

[doughboyshredder]

Efficiency of the system and inertia contributes to how much fuel is being used. Whether it is negligible is really a matter of opinion. Personally I haul ass in my truck with the windows down, the lights on, and the stereo up. I don't really give a fuck about a little bit of extra gas.

Some people do. Hypermilers are the extreme end. Some of them get ridiculous mpgs from normal cars. They prolly get flipped off a lot also.

Blurred, I must have misread your first posts. I really thought you said that there was no load on the engine from the lights.

Anyway here is a good page with more fuel saving tips:

http://www.opentravelinfo.com/travel...s-29-tips.html

I like this one:

Turn off the lights
24. Well, this one might be a safety concern. Many Rental Car companies have daylights enabled on their cars which are rather efficient. However every electrical equipment is powered from the alternator which will increase its load on the engine to produce more power. So when you can do it safely, turn off those headlights.

[Blurred]

Blurred, I must have misread your first posts. I really thought you said that there was no load on the engine from the lights.

Fair enough.

What kind of truck you rollin'?

[doughboyshredder]

Tundra CrewMax. Truck hauls ass with a 5.7l V8.

And I got the big mirrors. Maybe I should get those replaced to save some mileage.

[RootSkier]

A famous barista recently noted that a cop's mag light/club uses fewer D batteries than blurred's ghetto blaster.

[ImSearchingforPowder]

Okay, so you don't give a shit about the billion+ dollars that would be wasted annually (@100 oil) by Americans with a mandate or the extra CO2 in the air that could in all likelihood would kill more people that DRL's could ever save, if they saved lives, which they don't.

Show me a study that says they make our roads safer. Quick googling gives me this.

Maybe you could do your part to reduce CO2, just quit breathing. Do us all a favor.

[counterfeitfake]

Can anyone tell me one good reason why we don't just mandate that everybody always do everything the right way all the time?

[basinbeater]

I am sick of the government always telling us they need to put new expensive shit into cars and making it mandatory. Let the market decide, and I'd like to see a lightweight sports car made without abs, without power windows, locks, DRL, Traction control, blah blah blah, just light and fast and cheap. Cars are heavier than they have ever been, and much of it is due to government mandating all kinds of shit be put on vehicles. Enough already. For what it is worth I realize removing DRL from a car isn't gonna do squat, but it's the principle.

[Danno]

A famous barista recently noted that a cop's mag light/club uses fewer D batteries than blurred's ghetto blaster.

why oh why did you do this?

This thread brings back memories. So, will a plane on a treadmill take off?

[TheDingleberry]

Is this a real thread? Talk about a waste of time.

[RootSkier]

TURN YOUR FUCKING LIGHTS ON, IDIOTS.

[BakerBoy]

TURN YOUR FUCKING LIGHTS ON, IDIOTS.

It's against somebody's religion.

[highangle]

why oh why did you do this?

This thread brings back memories. So, will a plane on a treadmill take off?

yes, a plane on a treadmill will take off normally

[RootSkier]

Because I'm the original fucking juggernaut.














Bitches.

[johngenx]

I can't believe that people from the US argue against DRL's due to the increase in fuel consumption. The irony is overwhelming.

[XXX-er]

FUCKING RETARDED. A two lane mountain road at 8 am, yeah buddy, I realize you can see, but NO ONE CAN SEE YOU.

Why the fuck do cars even go into gear without the headlights going on?

Mine come on up here in the land of maple syrup & molsons but south of the 49th ... its a government conspiracy