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Thread: 50 years to the day

  1. #6501
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcski View Post
    CG is correct. The mullahs rationally know that having a nuke is a defensive weapon to counter and and more importantly discourage attacks by Israel, Saudi, or any others the perceive as enemies. (see NK as an expample if not getting attacked). It’s a defensive weapon. The mullahs ain’t gonna start lobbing nukes the first chance they get at Israel or anyone else. That’s retarted propaganda thinking. They and everyone else knows , if they were to do so, they’d be immediately obliterated.
    Its a defensive weapon, so that they can go on the offensive with its proxy groups without the risk of significant blowback on its own territory/regime. In effect, having a nuke pretty much garauntees that israel/USA will not launch a large scale attack on Iran and will not attempt violent regime change because that would be seen as an existential threat to Iranian soverignity and would justify the use of said Nuke. It is highly, highly unlikely that Iran would just use their nuke on day 1.

    Having a nuke is the ultimate ace-in-the-hole, and provides a safety net of sorts for the nuclear country.

  2. #6502
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    50 years to the day

    Show me again, where NK got attacked by anyone since they got nukes? Or that they have used their nukes? You’re reading comprehension flails more aggressively the more you struggle to prove your self always right. Lmao

    On the other hand -Iraq, Libya clearly show you are better off with some nukes or getting them anyway you can

    Being a martyr in their cause has little to nothing to do w rally chants of Death to America or Israel for that matter. If you aren’t aware of how that slogan is used as an institutional rather than genocidal call to action, you don’t know fuck all about Iran.

  3. #6503
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    Show me again when North Korea was subject to a large-scale military invasion or attack by another nation since the Korean Armistice Agreement of 1953?

    mcski is now unabashedly promoting Iranian propaganda. That other graphic he posted not too long ago, the one showing Israel as the only country in region with a nukes, comes with Iranian talking points & propaganda like those posted above.

    Still, a more intellectually honest position than denying Iran is trying to acquire nukes or that Iran was complying with the JCPOA and its other agreements

  4. #6504
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    Too many Iranian talking points.

    I think the risk has shifted from global thermonuclear destruction to regional now. As always was the risk.

    Pakistan and India almost did it last month.

    But shit, I’m talking to guys who’d throw it all away from some shitty beach real estate in Crimea.

  5. #6505
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cono Este View Post
    Too many Iranian talking points. I think the risk has shifted from global thermonuclear destruction to regional now. As always was the risk. Pakistan and India almost did it last month. But shit, I’m talking to guys who’d throw it all away from some shitty beach real estate in Crimea.
    Oh, did they? They almost did it last month?

  6. #6506
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    Quote Originally Posted by californiagrown View Post
    Its a defensive weapon, so that they can go on the offensive with its proxy groups without the risk of significant blowback on its own territory/regime.
    Exactly. It's so that Iran can more easily export Jihad throughout the region and the world. The Islamic regime in Iran shattered the Middle East. A nuclear weapon would destabilize the region even more.

    People think Gaza is bad. They’re out protesting for a cause they barely understand, trapped in trendy hashtags and fed propaganda by Muslim Brotherhood terrorists who parrot Iran’s lies. Most Muslims and Arabs in the Middle East, reject the portrayal of Israel as the region’s main enemy, and know instead that Iran’s Islamic regime is the true threat:

    - Iran fired missiles at Mecca, not Israel.

    - Iran has occupied three UAE islands illegally since 1971.

    - Western protesters rallying for Gaza are misinformed, manipulated by Iranian propaganda and Muslim Brotherhood media


    Contrast the global attention on Gaza with the far greater humanitarian disasters in other countries directly linked to Iran’s influence:

    Gaza: Iran pleaded for a ceasefire after just 12 days, yet ordered Hamas terrorists to reject one.

    Syria: Over 656,000 dead, 13.3 million displaced, $250–400 billion in damage from Iranian-backed militias.

    Iraq: Up to 1 million killed in the Iran-Iraq war, 1 million still displaced, $88 billion needed for recovery.

    Yemen: Iran-backed Houthis responsible for 377,000 deaths, mass famine, 4.5 million displaced, thousands of children killed or injured.

    Sudan: Iranian-supported Muslim Brotherhood forces killed 80,000 women and children since April 2023 and starved 5 million more. Yet this gets no Western attention.

    Iran exports terror to the UK and US, where MI6 and the CIA have arrested Iranian-linked terrorists. Iran owes the region apologies, and real change. Not slogans. Not theatrics. A huge, massive, and meaningful change for the better

  7. #6507
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    Quote Originally Posted by cono
    I’m talking to guys who’d throw it all away from some shitty beach real estate in Crimea
    Putin thanks you again for your support and especially for repeatedly repeating his talking points, even the ones they themselves hardly use anymore. And also thanks for illustrating the problem with Iran acquiring nuclear weapons. Like Russia, Iranian nukes will present it with even more opportunities to menace its neighbors

  8. #6508
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    Too many Iranian talking points.

    I think the risk has shifted from global thermonuclear destruction to regional now. As always was the risk.

    Pakistan and India almost did it last month.

    But shit, I’m talking to guys who’d throw it all away from some shitty beach real estate in Crimea.

  9. #6509
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    Nuclear armed nations do fight proxy wars, but not warfare with other nuclear powers, incindental skirmishes excepted.

    The USSR was an insufferable instigator of great misery upon the world, and so is Russia, because their proxy wars against nuclear nations, their communist insurgencies within nuclear allied nations, and their direct wars of aggression against non-nuclear powers were all protected in terms of interfecence and consequence by their nuclear arms.

    You can make an argument that Iran would like a nuke to allow them to engage in terrorism and conventional warfare with limited consequences, perhaps to conventionally strike non-nuclear nations they don't like.

    That would be horrific for the world. Further, the result would be an Arab nuclear program headed by Saudi Arabia to prevent Iran from doing shit like that to them.

    If that is all Iran wanted nukes for, it would be an outcome so unacceptable the the use of nuclear weapons in a disarming or decapitating strike would be arguably justifiable.

    BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUT I don't buy that argument that is all Iran wants nukes for... but why?

    Iran essentially done all that, running proxy war, terror campaigns, and direct strikes on other nations, for the last 46 years and RARELY got anything more than a pee-pee slap militarily. Yea their pissant navy got sank in 1988 for mining the Gulf. Really that is the only major action against Iran proper for terror/proxy/BM strikes. The recent conflict was all around the current nuclear breakout attempt, and the strikes on BM and drones were bonus goals.

    So, why would Iran attempt the nuclear breakout? You don't need nukes to stop Israel from stomping your evil Hezbollah proxy in Lebanon or the other of the 6 armies because nuclear powers don't use nukes to defend proxies and terror armies. It is why Russia let Syria fall and was unwilling to save Iran. Nobody wanted to get more conventional and nobody uses nukes for that. You don't nuke nuclear powers, nor their friends, to defend your proxy in a non-nuclear conflict your proxy started.

    Iran wants nukes because it intends to use them, possibly via proxies, probably after they have some deterrent force built. That reality is absolutely worth a disarming nuclear first strike to prevent.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  10. #6510
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    Iran gaining nukes is essentialy an existential threat for many, and a wholy unacceptable situation for most. Nuclear force would be justified to prevent that.

    That's a damned good reason to use all the political, economic, and limited conventional force options, in any combination, to prevent ever having to use nukes to prevent them from getting nukes. And note I didn't suggest unlimited conventional force (ie invasion) because Iran is too big for that: the cost would exceed that of breaking that taboo on limited nuclear use of force.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  11. #6511
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    OK, I agree and Iran is evil. What about N. Korea? They get a pass? And Israel? They get a pass?
    I have been in this State for 30 years and I am willing to admit that I am part of the problem.

    "Happiest years of my life were earning < $8.00 and hour, collecting unemployment every spring and fall, no car, no debt and no responsibilities. 1984-1990 Park City UT"

  12. #6512
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    North Korea was complex due to the China factor, but yea they are evil. They shouldn't ahve been allowed to have nukes. They were more complex because their massive entrenched artillery could reduce Seoul to ruins as bad as a nuke in an hour or two... that made it hard to strike their nuclear program.

    If you put Israel into the same category as NK or Iran, then I wonder if you are interested in a genuine conversation.

    But maybe it is because you thought that all 3 violated NPT rather than morally equating a hereditary Islamist Theocratic Dictatorship or a hereditary Totalitarian Communist Dictatorship with a Parliamentary Republic?

    Israel didn't sign NPT, they aren't a declared nuclear power (and thus haven't threatened to nuke anyone). The belief that they gained nukes ~1979 has probably prevented quite a few wars and likely contributed to the Sinai agreement with Egypt where Egypt officially recognized Israel's right to exist, established relations, peace, and Israel gave Egypt all its land back (except Gaza, oops, well Egypt didn't want it). Syria, Lebanon, and Jordan stopped trying to invade and destroy Israel, and Jordan made peace in 1994.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  13. #6513
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    Thanks for a sane and reasoned response.

    My purpose in inluding Israel was that it helps to show that; there is no Black and White answers here. And you make Irans argument for wanting Nulear weapons for them better than they could possibly ever do, who will fuck with you if you have the Bomb?

    The Earth is still pretty big and I think if any entity were to really get serious and had the funding they could develop, build and hide Nuclear weapons. Sounds outrageous, but envision a Dr. Evil type.

    Bombing a big place like Iran and playing whack-a-Mole (I fucking hate Moles) for the next 50 years sounds terrible. Invading and ensuring that there is no Nuclear weapons program sounds worse so, where does that leave us?
    I have been in this State for 30 years and I am willing to admit that I am part of the problem.

    "Happiest years of my life were earning < $8.00 and hour, collecting unemployment every spring and fall, no car, no debt and no responsibilities. 1984-1990 Park City UT"

  14. #6514
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    Iran is no more likely to use nukes offensively than NK or anyone else. All rational actors ( of which Iran is one ), know that using a nuke in that manor would instantly make them the pariah of the world and invite a devastating counter attack. The reason countries use proxies is for plausible deniability. The real danger would be a nuke escaping government control but that risk is probably greater in Pakistan.

    Most of this non sense is just outsized fear generated by the Israeli propaganda machine. Who just happens to have their own nukes that helps them throw outsized weight around (plus the back stop bail out of calling big bro USA for help). When it comes to terrorism, Iran doesn’t come close to the damage and death of the Saudis and their decades long exporting of Wahhabi extremism. They are much more dangerous than any scary mullah in Iran

  15. #6515
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    I find NK far more rational than Iran on paper. But that NK rational actor status is dangerously subject to the whims, emotions, and mental state of a man who possibly fancies himself a god. This is arguably different from other powers where an elected executive is more likely to be dealt with if making self-destructive moves.

    Iran is already a pariah state but also enjoy near immunity to counterstrikes for their chosen warfare methods of terrorism and proxy armies. So being a pariah doesn't bother them, and thus they pursue a bomb despite the consequences to their status and economy... is that rational? If so then under what rationale? What is their goal?

    They believe in taking the actions to fulfil their apocalyptical religious prophecies about the end times.

    So, why do they want a nuke again? And how are they deterred from using it? I've demonstrated they don't need the deterrent unless they intend to expand their aggression at the least, and probably to include nuclear use.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  16. #6516
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    But that NK rational actor status is dangerously subject to the whims, emotions, and mental state of a man who possibly fancies himself a god.
    Oh, the ironing.
    I have been in this State for 30 years and I am willing to admit that I am part of the problem.

    "Happiest years of my life were earning < $8.00 and hour, collecting unemployment every spring and fall, no car, no debt and no responsibilities. 1984-1990 Park City UT"

  17. #6517
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    Quote Originally Posted by summit View Post
    I find NK far more rational than Iran on paper.
    I honestly do not understand this take. DPRK has a population divorced from reality for over 50 years and is led by a god whorshipped by all. Iran is led by religous clerics who have significant opposition amongst the population and also within the military and govt, and the people very much live in the same reality as the rest of the world.

    One has a leader with completely unchecked power. The other is a functioning nation with all the beauracracy and sociacultural balancing that goes along with that.

  18. #6518
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    Who the fuck is trying to convince dumbasses here that Iran is peaceful and innocent? That Israel is just as bad and has no right to shoot unless being fired upon? That &#39;nuance is needed&#39; when the GBUs have done their work after 40 years of nuance failing?
    Yall are getting dumber and your algo-driven social media will make you into dumb fucking cultists like MAGA.

  19. #6519
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    Right out of the playbook of Mr. Black & White.
    I have been in this State for 30 years and I am willing to admit that I am part of the problem.

    "Happiest years of my life were earning < $8.00 and hour, collecting unemployment every spring and fall, no car, no debt and no responsibilities. 1984-1990 Park City UT"

  20. #6520
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bunion 2020 View Post
    Right out of the playbook of Mr. Black & White.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RX8btO7gVyU
    I see hydraulic turtles.

  21. #6521
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    A report published by the Israeli newspaper Haaretz has revealed that private contractors hired by the Israeli army are being paid 5,000 shekels (approximately $1,500) for every Palestinian home they demolish in the Gaza Strip.

    The report further alleges that decisions have been made on the ground that deem the killing of Palestinian civilians, including those searching for food, as acceptable to secure this payment.

    An Israeli soldier currently deployed in Gaza told Haaretz: &ldquo;Every private contractor working in Gaza with engineering equipment earns 5,000 shekels for each house they destroy. They&rsquo;re making a lot of money.&rdquo; He continued: &ldquo;Any time they&rsquo;re not demolishing houses is a financial loss, and the Israeli army has to keep them working.&rdquo; According to the soldier&rsquo;s account, the contractors&rsquo; campaign of destruction brings them and their small security units dangerously close to humanitarian aid distribution points set up by the US and the Israeli-backed Gaza Humanitarian Foundation.

    These sites are frequently crowded with Palestinians in urgent need of food and assistance. The report indicated that, in order to ensure their own safety, contractors provoke security incidents to receive additional military protection, which often results in Israeli soldiers opening fire on Palestinians gathered near these aid sites. These incidents have led to the deaths of several civilians suffering from hunger. The article concludes: &ldquo;In order for a contractor to earn an additional 5,000 shekels, a decision is made that it&rsquo;s acceptable to kill Palestinian individuals who are looking for food.&rdquo;
    ...
    I have been in this State for 30 years and I am willing to admit that I am part of the problem.

    "Happiest years of my life were earning < $8.00 and hour, collecting unemployment every spring and fall, no car, no debt and no responsibilities. 1984-1990 Park City UT"

  22. #6522
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    It’s almost like Israel is run by the same type of far right amoral shitbags that are running the US right now

  23. #6523
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    lol youd change your tune if someone else was in charge there?

  24. #6524
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    Quote Originally Posted by highangle View Post
    lol you'd post differently if someone else was in charge there?
    Would they act so horrifically if someone else was in charge?

  25. #6525
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    You attack me, imma shove your fucking rocket up your ass boy

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