If only there was something we could do...

[J. Barron DeJong]

FFS. Where’s the racial angle here:



(Gentle request to not quote Leroy when replying so I can keep myself from being pulled into his bullshit.)

[SumJongGuy]

It all ties back to the Slave Patrols..

[::: :::]

given the US's history of racism, i'm not sure why there's any pushback on Leroy's post other than the notion that there are verifiable consistent and notable firearm regulations throughout US history that disclaim the concept that 2A is absolute. Re-writing history isn't reasonable either for 2A absolutism or for re-claiming a high road on racist policy...

yes, American cities/towns used policy devoid of specific racist language to target POC through our history...similar to 3 strikes, stop/frisk, or voting rules, taxes (poll / real estate / income), or any number of other citable moments (& sure, black panthers & slave patrols)

[SumJongGuy]

given the US's history of racism, i'm not sure why there's any pushback on Leroy's post other than the notion that there are verifiable consistent and notable firearm regulations throughout US history that disclaim the concept that 2A is absolute. Re-writing history isn't reasonable either for 2A absolutism or for re-claiming a high road on racist policy...

yes, American cities/towns used policy devoid of specific racist language to target POC through our history...similar to 3 strikes, stop/frisk, or voting rules, taxes (poll / real estate / income), or any number of other citable moments (& sure, black panthers & slave patrols)

Cash bail and fines instead of jail time are also institutional racism.

[J. Barron DeJong]

given the US's history of racism, i'm not sure why there's any pushback on Leroy's post other than the notion that there are verifiable consistent and notable firearm regulations throughout US history that disclaim the concept that 2A is absolute. Re-writing history isn't reasonable either for 2A absolutism or for re-claiming a high road on racist policy...

yes, American cities/towns used policy devoid of specific racist language to target POC through our history...similar to 3 strikes, stop/frisk, or voting rules, taxes (poll / real estate / income), or any number of other citable moments (& sure, black panthers & slave patrols)

The push back is that he claimed ‘all those laws’ had racist foundings.

Of course there were laws past and present that were implemented for racist purposes, sometimes explicitly, other times not.

But it seems not all historical gun laws were.

That there are historical gun laws is a critical point here, as the Supreme Court explicitly said certain gun control laws were unconstitutional because they had no historical basis, meaning similar laws never existed prior to 1900. But now people who are actually taking the time to find those historical laws are pointing out that the Supreme Court ruling is based on bullshit.

[leroy jenkins]

Please cite specific instances of racism or otherwise stfu with your red herrings.

All the earliest gun control in this country was to ban black and natives from having guns. They weren't red herrings. They were virtually all the og gun control.
The exception would be laws disallowing loyalists from owning guns during the revolutionary war.

[leroy jenkins]

FFS. Where’s the racial angle here:



(Gentle request to not quote Leroy when replying so I can keep myself from being pulled into his bullshit.)

You can find a very small number of laws restricting carrying, but basically the only laws restricting possession are based in racism, with the only exceptions being loyalists.

[SumJongGuy]

Did the Wild West Have More Gun Control Than We Do Today?

Pretty sure these laws were not based on racist motives.

[ex-powderbroker]

That there are historical gun laws is a critical point here, as the Supreme Court explicitly said certain gun control laws were unconstitutional because they had no historical basis, meaning similar laws never existed prior to 1900. But now people who are actually taking the time to find those historical laws are pointing out that the Supreme Court ruling is based on bullshit.

Anything is possible if you lie!

[::: :::]

restricting carrying [vs] restricting possession

you can't have it both ways...somehow I imagine you meant "ownership" for one of these two, but you basically cited two similar conditions as opposing

nevertheless, you haven't supported your assertion; you've merely re-asserted it
whereas, a few posters now have linked to stories offering information at odds with your assertion

[Flounder]

nevertheless, you haven't supported your assertion; you've merely re-asserted it

Baby steps. At least Leroy now understands CRT and agrees that systemic racism is a problem in the US.

[leroy jenkins]

Baby steps. At least Leroy now understands CRT and agrees that systemic racism is a problem in the US.

Have I ever not?

[leroy jenkins]

Did the Wild West Have More Gun Control Than We Do Today?

Pretty sure these laws were not based on racist motives.

LOL. I like the part where them mention Deadwood, a place that had zero laws, and then give no evidence at all to back up the claim that it had gun control laws. The entire settlement was illegal there.

[leroy jenkins]

you can't have it both ways...somehow I imagine you meant "ownership" for one of these two, but you basically cited two similar conditions as opposing

nevertheless, you haven't supported your assertion; you've merely re-asserted it
whereas, a few posters now have linked to stories offering information at odds with your assertion

You can't prove a negative. You want me to find that evidence for the lack of non racist gun control laws? Evidence for the lack of existence of something? Or do you want me to find evidence of racist gun control laws? Cus I can find those, the government has cited them as the historical precedent for gun control in post bruen case law, and yep, all the cases they cite are either blacks, indians, occasionally catholics, or loyalists, or prohibitions for drunks carrying while they are drunk.

[leroy jenkins]

The push back is that he claimed ‘all those laws’ had racist foundings.

Of course there were laws past and present that were implemented for racist purposes, sometimes explicitly, other times not.

But it seems not all historical gun laws were.

That there are historical gun laws is a critical point here, as the Supreme Court explicitly said certain gun control laws were unconstitutional because they had no historical basis, meaning similar laws never existed prior to 1900. But now people who are actually taking the time to find those historical laws are pointing out that the Supreme Court ruling is based on bullshit.

Well the way it works now, both legally, and in argument, is that its up to you to provide examples of a strong history of non racist gun control laws.

I do know we had laws saying minutemen needed to have a certain amount of ball and powder on hand. Thats probably the earliest.

I just lightly skimmed this. https://harvardlawreview.org/forum/v...ond-amendment/ Probably not valid as being from such a far right propaganda rag as the harvard law review tho. /s

[SumJongGuy]

Well it's also fair to say that any gun laws were no more racist than all the other laws about.. everything. ALL the laws about everything were extremely racist. It wasn't any anomaly. It's really disingenuous to try to play the "gun control was only to support Jim Crow" bullshit.

Show me where it was just as legal for non LEOs to carry or conceal carry back in the 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, even 90s than it is now. There was one blip in the late 60s where the KKK pushed to stop the Black Panthers from carrying rifles. That's about it..

[ex-powderbroker]

Who fucking cares. Make the laws like Canada. problem solved.

[::: :::]

The problem is all those laws seem to be inherently racist. Pro 2a folks been saying for years that the first gun control in this country was all rooted in racism.

You assert

You can't prove a negative. You want me to find that evidence for the lack of non racist gun control laws? Evidence for the lack of existence of something? Or do you want me to find evidence of racist gun control laws? Cus I can find those, the government has cited them as the historical precedent for gun control in post bruen case law, and yep, all the cases they cite are either blacks, indians, occasionally catholics, or loyalists, or prohibitions for drunks carrying while they are drunk.

no, just offer something to ground your assertion in fact
"post bruen case law" -- please elaborate

Well the way it works now, both legally, and in argument, is that its up to you to provide examples of a strong history of non racist gun control laws.

I do know we had laws saying minutemen needed to have a certain amount of ball and powder on hand. Thats probably the earliest.

I just lightly skimmed this. https://harvardlawreview.org/forum/v...ond-amendment/ Probably not valid as being from such a far right propaganda rag as the harvard law review tho. /s

i'm not asserting there are non-racist gun laws...just asking for your support of the statement you made

[leroy jenkins]

Who fucking cares. Make the laws like Canada. problem solved.

God we have a suicide epidemic. No one seems to want to talk about causes of that or how to solve it other then "grrr guns bad"

[leroy jenkins]

You assert

no, just offer something to ground your assertion in fact
"post bruen case law" -- please elaborate

i'm not asserting there are non-racist gun laws...just asking for your support of the statement you made

Which I provided. And if I'm asserting that there wasn't much history of NON racist gun laws in early US history, then its up to you to prove me wrong.

[ex-powderbroker]

shut the fuck up moron. people are killing themselves and others at horrific rates and adding friction to procuring guns solves both issues. stop being a selfish contrarian asshole when it’s completely obvious to anyone that doesn’t have a gun fetish.

[J. Barron DeJong]

shut the fuck up moron. people are killing themselves and others at horrific rates and adding friction to procuring guns solves both issues. stop being a selfish contrarian asshole when it’s completely obvious to anyone that doesn’t have a gun fetish.

^^^This.

Especially the ‘shut the fuck up moron’ part.

[leroy jenkins]

shut the fuck up moron. people are killing themselves and others at horrific rates and adding friction to procuring guns solves both issues. stop being a selfish contrarian asshole when it’s completely obvious to anyone that doesn’t have a gun fetish.

You really think making guns a little harder to purchase will "solve" the suicide problem? And you're calling me a moron? Seriously I try to retain a certain level of respect and decorum but this is just idiotic. You really actually think solving the suicide epidemic is that easy? People who struggle with suicidal thoughts and ideation will just be cured if its a bit harder to get a gun? Any sort of research to back that up or you just spitballing here?

Perhaps if you weren't so fixated on your hatred you'd realize the situation is a bit more complex than that and guns are not a causal variable at all. No one is just perfectly well adjusted and happy and decides ya know what, it'd just be so easy to get a gun maybe killing myself is worth a shot.

[leroy jenkins]

^^^This.

Especially the ‘shut the fuck up moron’ part.

So you also agree with one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. Gotcha.

[Buzzworthy]

Fuck your whataboutisims you disingenuous asshole.