Student Loan Forgiveness

[Mustonen]

Wow. That’s a lot of words. Also a lot of nonsense. You can do yourself a favor by owning some of what you bring to the discussion. Or not. I don’t care all that much. You’re just leaning further into the impression I already have of you.

[Diamond Joe]

Good grief you guys. Get a room

[SumJongGuy]

Good grief you guys. Get a room

"Directly!"

[Mustonen]

"Directly!"

Gold, Jerry. Gold!

[summit]

Interesting... my student loan balance has returned, but my employer continued to make payments which the loan servicer has not recorded. I wonder how many hours on the phone this will take to solve?

[MakersTeleMark]

Interesting... my student loan balance has returned, but my employer continued to make payments which the loan servicer has not recorded. I wonder how many hours on the phone this will take to solve?

Do you have a direct line?

[riff]

This thread is difficult to read. Not even August yet


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[Buster Highmen]

Sorry, I shouldn't respond to Musty.

But here's an interesting article that gets at some of the critique of banks, students, colleges and loans:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/preston...h=3adc61a85364

[Cono Este]

Everyone needs to stop fighting. This ruse worked out exactly the way Biden wanted it to.

Sometimes you have to take one for the team. I just hope if you bought a new stump jumper you kept the receipt.

[riser4]

Sorry, I shouldn't respond to Musty.

But here's an interesting article that gets at some of the critique of banks, students, colleges and loans:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/preston...h=3adc61a85364

The "free trial" proposal is interesting.

[riser4]

I'ma add that such a free trial should result in an AS/AA as appropriate. The institution would be incentivized hopefully to provide a compelling reason to come back and finish with that institution.

I've never been on board with 100% free for everyone. I was more in favor of say 3% of income for 20 years, or something.

[Mustonen]

In any case, putting somebody on the hook for the product and the cost besides young adults with undeveloped pre-frontal cortexes.

If you keep growing the pool of money smart university administrators will find ways to get it, or watch their competitors get it while they’re left behind. If nobody is really accountable for the value of what that pool of money is buying, well that’s how we get to where we are.

I think constraining or restricting the pool and putting universities on some kind of hook is the way forward. If that’s done too aggressively that’ll probably close more than a few campuses. Maybe that’s good.

[summit]

I've never been on board with 100% free for everyone. I was more in favor of say 3% of income for 20 years, or something.

Yes, but maybe more like 1% per year of full time (unlimited credits 12+) covering classes only with some limits of course fees and prohibitions on requiring campus residency, meal plans, and making fees voluntary (activity fees, technology fees, diversity fees, event fees, sports fees, etc fees). Pro rata for part time.

AND make that 1%/yr go back to the school, not the gov.

This will absolutely destroy certain bloated degrees and make colleges more selective. College is gonna take a loss on X Studies (gender, race, women), sociology, hospitality, outdoor education, and early childhood education students. Some of these fields that never belonged as an all comer's choice for 4 year public college students may rightfully disappear from the public college realm or be kicked down to the associates level. 3 year degrees may emerge. The process may even combat some credential inflation such as in childhood/elementary education where you need a graduate degree to teach a 6 year old.

Colleges will especially lose on students who cannot graduate and perform in the workplace, so they might need to teach professionalism and encourage maturity instead of safe spaces. They'll have to look closely at admitting students who would be better off in trade school. Students with poor records or those who need but haven't completed remedial coursework that indicate inability to succeed in college or the professional workplace will be limited due to the financial cost (or at least opportunity cost).

The competition for high earning athletes will become batshit insane beyond what it is now. Imagine getting 4% of your NFL or NBA student athletes salary.

An engineering, biology or nursing student is going to pay off for the school which is good because those courses actually cost more in terms of facilities and professors (or should). I think it is fucked if a college is paying their english phd the same as an engineering phd.

[summit]

Do you have a direct line?

Not a chance... I have sent emails to the loan service and to my employer's loan payment service. It begins...

[Foggy_Goggles]

For many students at many schools, it is a shitty product at a shitty price. The garbage loan programs just exacerbate this. You are able to make all kinds of life altering shitty decisions when you are 18. Signing loan docs is just one of them.

There is no one size fits all model for what the smart choice is after you graduate highschool. The idea some kind of grade 16 absent marketable job skills is some kind of entitlement is a joke. Oh, and room and board isn't a cost of college. That's a cost of life.

[bodywhomper]

Not a chance... I have sent emails to the loan service and to my employer's loan payment service. It begins...

I hate this part SO much. Same with dealing with mortgage/escrow accounts. Fuck-ups that are not our fault. Do we really have to self-advocate for this bullshit?! Nothing more fun than taking time off work (sick, vacation, or unpaid) to deal with that shit.

[skaredshtles]

I hate this part SO much. Same with dealing with mortgage/escrow accounts. Fuck-ups that are not our fault. Do we really have to self-advocate for this bullshit?! Nothing more fun than taking time off work (sick, vacation, or unpaid) to deal with that shit.

I just wrapped up a "mystery lien" project that has been on-going since last summer. Fortunately I was able to engage a RE attorney who took care of the details. I'd probably have gone postal if I had to handle that shit myself.

[summit]

I hate this part SO much. Same with dealing with mortgage/escrow accounts. Fuck-ups that are not our fault. Do we really have to self-advocate for this bullshit?! Nothing more fun than taking time off work (sick, vacation, or unpaid) to deal with that shit.

I agree. The most fucked up thing is that this IS the precise business model underpinning the health insurance industry. Fuck with vulnerable people so much and make things so difficult that they give up and pay more than they should. /offtopic

[J. Barron DeJong]

Here is a question that has probably been addressed but I’m feeling too lazy to search for it:

Why are student loans excluded from personal bankruptcy relief?

It seems like that change should be part of any student debt relief program/legislation

Maybe if banks knew that the loans could be part of bankruptcy filings that would reign them in at least a little?

It’s to counteract a ‘moral hazard’. It would be too easy for a student to take on student debt, then claim bankruptcy immediately upon graduating when they don’t own anything, so don’t have anything to lose. And you can’t repo the goods they purchased with the loan - everything learned while attending college.

But the current situation sucks.

[bodywhomper]

I just wrapped up a "mystery lien" project that has been on-going since last summer. Fortunately I was able to engage a RE attorney who took care of the details. I'd probably have gone postal if I had to handle that shit myself.

I agree. The most fucked up thing is that this IS the precise business model underpinning the health insurance industry. Fuck with vulnerable people so much and make things so difficult that they give up and pay more than they should. /offtopic

Fuck that shit.

It would be so hard to deal with this type of stuff (or evenly mildly complicated HC insurance bullshit) if I was a single parent, had multiple jobs with no schedule flexibility, etc. I’ve seen it with friends and offered support when possible. Sucks.

[summit]

OK here is a question... my grad school loan is a direct unsubsidized federal loan at 6%. If I had previously refinanced it through some company for a better rate, would that have disqualified me from the (now nullified) federal loan forgiveness?

Gotta figure out if I am gonna refi the monthly payment down to the employer loan assistance amount.

Side note, under CARES up to $5250/yr from your employer for student loans is tax free. After 2025 it is taxable income unless the Feds come up with new legislation.

[Danno]

OK here is a question... my grad school loan is a direct unsubsidized federal loan at 6%. If I had previously refinanced it through some company for a better rate, would that have disqualified me from the (now nullified) federal loan forgiveness?

Gotta figure out if I am gonna refi the monthly payment down to the employer loan assistance amount.

Side note, under CARES $5250/yr from your employer for student loans is tax free. After 2025 it is taxable income unless the Feds come up with new legislation.

I'm no expert, but if it is still a federal loan then I think you would have qualified. If the action you took paid off the federal loan such that your loan is now private, then I think no. But I could be completely wrong.

[Mustonen]

I'm no expert, but if it is still a federal loan then I think you would have qualified. If the action you took paid off the federal loan such that your loan is now private, then I think no. But I could be completely wrong.

That’s my understanding as well. And the mechanics of all of this, as pedantic as they may seem, are important here. If a private party (a bank) holds the debt the government has no power or obvious mechanism to forgive it, and any attempt to do so would give those banks standing to challenge what would legitimately be an overreach.

[californiagrown]

I work for an ENR top 10 contractor. We have a handful of VPs that started out in the carpenters union, no college experience making $300k. Maybe 15% of our supers came up in the trades, no college. You need to get to the Sr Super or Exec level to get $200k but plenty of examples in my peer group.


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Yep, maybe its different in other areas? But being in the same industry in the same region as you i see the same thing.

All engineers should be required to do 2 years of field work. The amount of things I’ve seen in the field that I’m sure look great on a computer but lack practicality is mind numbing.

One of the biggest things that helped it "click" for me in my career was working next to our field inspectors and bouncing ideas (both good and bad) off them. I learned so much, and it also helped simplify things so that i didnt overthink and assume everything had to be a complicated overengineered CF. I always appreciate and try to elicit blunt feedback and input from contractors in the field- they usually have really good ideas and know what works and what doesnt.

[Conundrum]

I'll belabor the point of higher earnings. I was speaking with a contractor I do some work with yesterday. They have five supers making $200k+. Two of them have college degrees. But it's not for everybody.