Student Loan Forgiveness

[SumJongGuy]

Life 201 is a graded 2 credit elective.

With the costs passed on to everyone else as noted..

[Mazderati]

The AMA may not directly set wages but it influences them other ways. For a long time, it worked to control the supply of new physicians through reducing available medical schools and residencies. The AMA is a huge lobby. Caution: coastal elite link. https://blog.petrieflom.law.harvard....tice-lobbying/

[AlpiNord]

Skimming through this thread, I was reminded of this clip re getting a degree:

https://youtube.com/shorts/UmYle_miVfM?feature=share

Sent from my iPad using TGR Forums

[Trackhead]

The AMA may not directly set wages but it influences them other ways. For a long time, it worked to control the supply of new physicians through reducing available medical schools and residencies. The AMA is a huge lobby. Caution: coastal elite link. https://blog.petrieflom.law.harvard....tice-lobbying/

That was a great article. I’ve worked in rural healthcare in Alaska, very few physicians willing to do the remote work. Now I’m in Montana, if it weren’t for non physician providers, there would be virtually no rural healthcare. Family practice physicians are almost universally under paid and over worked. Recruiting them to critical access facilities is a tall task, retention is another.

And the article also supports my view on the inefficiency of our education system.

. The AMA’s scope of practice lobbying is particularly frustrating because the Association could improve both the supply and allocation of physicians in a more evidence-based way: by reforming U.S. medical education. In other countries, physicians receive fewer years of training but provide comparable care. Instead of insisting that NPs and other clinicians get more training, the AMA should be working to make U.S. medical education more efficient by pushing for the creation of more three-year medical degrees, more combined undergraduate and medical school programs, and shorter pathways into highly needed specialties.

[dunfree]

The AMA doesn’t set wages for healthcare workers. If your workplace doesn’t maintain legally required staffing levels report them. Wtf does that have to do with your rant about bloated wages and travel nurses? You’ve lost your mind. It’s obvious that you have a beef with Trackhead but your tirade makes you sound stupid.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

Aren’t you a nurse? Healthcare is a huge sector of the US economy but it’s not in structure, worker experience or work structure like many other parts ie for other sectors “minimum staffing levels” are something that doesn’t exist effectively. Not much different than middle aged civil engineers talking about what should be middle aged nurses should understand that their experience might be atypical

[summit]

You sound like a bitter ignorant moron after posting this. Bloated wages for healthcare workers? Go fuck yourself.

I have that idiot on ignore for a reason... please don't quote his drivel

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Aren’t you a nurse? Healthcare is a huge sector of the US economy but it’s not in structure, worker experience or work structure like many other parts ie for other sectors “minimum staffing levels” are something that doesn’t exist effectively. Not much different than middle aged civil engineers talking about what should be middle aged nurses should understand that their experience might be atypical

No.

Do you have dementia? This post is nearly incoherent


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[MagnificentUnicorn]

The AMA may not directly set wages but it influences them other ways. For a long time, it worked to control the supply of new physicians through reducing available medical schools and residencies. The AMA is a huge lobby. Caution: coastal elite link. https://blog.petrieflom.law.harvard....tice-lobbying/

No one is arguing that the AMA is a huge lobby. Saying they set wages for non physician healthcare professionals is laughable. Wages are set because of market demand and collective bargaining. I’ve worked in hospitals my entire adult life, most of that time physicians have complained that the people that enable them to do their work and make very good money don’t work hard enough and make too much. That’s because until recently healthcare has been physician focused and not patient focused. Hopefully things will continue to focus more on patients.

Apologies in advance to doctors like Old Goat that seem to get that they can’t do it without us.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[dunfree]

I have that idiot on ignore for a reason... please don't quote his drivel

Nothing more drivel than “I’ve got someone on ignore”.

[dunfree]

No.

Do you have dementia? This post is nearly incoherent


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

How many sectors do you think have large employers with collective bargaining? Do you think the proportion of union employees in healthcare is representative?

[Mazderati]

Wages are set because of market demand and collective bargaining.

Market monopsonies would like a word.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

How many sectors do you think have large employers with collective bargaining? Do you think the proportion of union employees in healthcare is representative?

My experience in CA and WA, yes to both. Based on talking with travelers from other parts of the US, if they’re not union then wages are driven by market demand. Healthcare workers are paid well compared to CoL in progressive areas. People decide to travel because base hourly wages are better and they get CoLAs. Overall for institutions the cost is a wash because they pay no benefits for travelers. The downside is constant turnover, travel assignments are typically 13 weeks. No commitment is bad for results and morale.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[stuckathuntermtn]

What if everyone just stopped paying? Or only paid to cover the principle?
Just getting rid of the interest seems like it would be a lot.

[Mustonen]

What if everyone just stopped paying? Or only paid to cover the principle?
Just getting rid of the interest seems like it would be a lot.

You mean if they just turned all the loans to zero interest and accepted principal only payments? Payment allocation is typically defined in the contract, and that’s almost always going to be fees —> interest —> principal.

[bodywhomper]

-Federal student subsidized and unsubsidized loans
-parent loans for undergraduate students
-graduate plus loans
-private education loans

[Buster Highmen]

Like I said, I think the current loan structure is what gave rise to ridiculous tuition inflation. That blocks access to college educations for more and more people.

A direct to college government grant based system that existed before the tuition inflation might break that.

If not that, then we something else has to replace this loan structure.

[Mustonen]

Like I said, I think the current loan structure is what gave rise to ridiculous tuition inflation. That blocks access to college educations for more and more people.

A direct to college government grant based system that existed before the tuition inflation might break that.

If not that, then we something else has to replace this loan structure.

I agree. But the current system IS direct, even though they’re loans rather than grants.

I talk to lots of bank presidents and CEOs in my day to day, and have never once heard a single one ever opine that they are remotely excited about the student loan market. Most don’t play in the market at all, or if they do it’s as a loss leader. There is no meaningful balance sheet potential there.

[summit]

Bloat within the college bureaucracy and amenities has to change and the only way to make that happen is to have price be a point of competition. That won't happen when almost all students have "infinite budgets" via loans. Most 18 year old brains don't think thoroughly about delayed value vs delayed cost when they are considering immediate experience vs no limits. The idea that colleges can and should charge students the same for remote classes, and that students will pay, is based in this demented unqualified nondischargable massive loan funding structure.

[Buster Highmen]

Ultimately the feds are on the hook for student loans, but the banks are intermediaries. It's NOT direct.

We can quibble about the resulting debt, profits and attractiveness thereof for the vampiric suckjackals of malign intent, but that's a waste of time and just another straw man.

Something is causing the ridiculous tuition inflation and I'd rather focus on that.

I think it's the system of loans and diminishing direct to colleges government grants. There's an analogy to the housing market and the subprime loan dynamic.

Federal and state grant direct to the institutions might be a better way to manage and improve access to higher education. There is a correlation between state budget cuts and tuition increases. Plus colleges start to pander to potential customers by offering services outside academics like nice food or housing.

[Buster Highmen]

Bloat within the college bureaucracy and amenities has to change and the only way to make that happen is to have price be a point of competition. That won't happen when almost all students have "infinite budgets" via loans. Most 18 year old brains don't think thoroughly about delayed value vs delayed cost when they are considering immediate experience vs no limits. The idea that colleges can and should charge students the same for remote classes, and that students will pay, is based in this demented unqualified nondischargable massive loan funding structure.

This ^, but don't leave out the parents.

[Mustonen]

Ultimately the feds are on the hook for student loans, but the banks are intermediaries. It's NOT direct.

We can quibble about the resulting debt, profits and attractiveness thereof for the vampiric suckjackals of malign intent, but that's a waste of time and just another straw man.

Something is causing the ridiculous tuition inflation and I'd rather focus on that.

The majority are direct. [emoji849] You are allowed to admit where you’re wrong, you know, outside of endless deflection. That might even help advance the discussion.

The lack of controls around such a program - where repayment and interest rate risk and ability to repay are not a consideration and you can finance hundreds of thousands of dollars with the government - is at the core of the problem, I think we agree. Accountability is shifted to the students who, as teenagers and twenty year olds that never were held accountable for payments under their parents’ umbrella, saw free money and chased the lifestyle. Outsourcing origination and servicing is a relatively low opportunity byproduct.

[Buster Highmen]

Explain how a loan is direct from consumer to product with no bank involvement.

At least we agree that these loans are a problem.

[teleee]

The majority are direct. [emoji849] You are allowed to admit where you’re wrong, you know, outside of endless deflection. That might even help advance the discussion.

Dumbest thing I have read on the TGRz, are you new here? No one ever admits when they are wrong Sheesh, firework smoke must have went straight to your brain.



Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[Buster Highmen]

Well, hey, if I'm wrong and it's not purely a consequence of some ridiculously narrow definition of "direct", I'd admit I'm wrong.

But loans are never a "direct" way of money moving from consumer to product. Loans inherently involve banks or at least a creditor.

[Mustonen]

Explain how a loan is direct from consumer to product with no bank involvement.

At least we agree that these loans are a problem.

These loans are by definition direct. I don’t quite understand what you’re asking. I don’t think you do either.

But this line of inquiry and the corollary to mortgage lending IS interesting. The 2008 crisis was created by tons of free money, spurred on by things like NINA and NINJA loans and inflating collateral values. It hit its inflection point when collateral values corrected and suddenly huge swaths of these assets were effectively unsecured. Here it’s a little different because these loans are almost by definition unsecured NINJA loans and it’s unclear what the inflection point might be. Maybe this is it?