Student Loan Forgiveness

[bodywhomper]

who gives a shit? Other than status conscious clowns? Opportunity cost is what matters- in money and time

$110/hr depending on factors is cube monkey take home

$110/hr is what some of the VPs make in the engineering company where I work. Most VPs (and all non-VPs) make less.

[bodywhomper]

Oooof, so glad that expense is behind us. Back in the day I think we paid about $75k for 5 years of SDSU for each of the girls. Yup, they lived at home.

My kiddo’s going to humboldt state next year. Tuition next year is $7.9k. Dorm and meal plan is under $13k.

[Cono Este]

University of Mizzou is 27k all in for freshmen yr. For my daughter. . son is playing ball at Jc for free. Hopefully he gets a full ride, he’s throwing 93-94 mph now after elbow problems that put me into depression. living at home next yr and wants to keep investing his college fund. Smart kid. Humble too, he could have gone to Mizzou and turned down a partial scholarship to play ball at pitt.

I was fortunate to be able to put 20k into college funds when they were born. It was about 70k when they graduated. I’m still kicking out spending money though. Ex makes a million a yr too but I’m basically paying for it all.

Between that and my mother, not alot left in the ski budget, it was mostly snobowl squeezed i between visiting my mother.. But my kids will grgadiate debt free if it kills me. My son may have a small portfolio left for himself.

Why stop making mistakes for myself now.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Sounds like the biggest argument for college is larger financial rewards. Is that the only measure of success? Is that how we value people, by how much wealth they have? Seems pretty fucked up. If $75-80k is peak happiness, according to some study. The happiest people that I know aren’t the wealthy(financially)that’s for sure, they’re usually miserable cunts.

I think success is being generally happy, doing good work, helping people, being a positive benefit to society without trying to take more than you need.


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[SkiLyft]

^^ ps that 2010 study is dated, the subject was revisited and found that people have greater “well being” as they make more. Anywho, point taken, money is one aspect that enables joy. The other aspect is time/flexibility in a career; ultimately that’s up to the person to decide or prioritize.

Source: https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2016976118

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[MagnificentUnicorn]

Yes happiness is subjective. So we’re back to money being the only objective measure of success which is problematic because “success” is subjective as a whole. I know people with advanced degrees working jobs with lower income and they are some of the happiest people I know. I know people that work the same jobs with no education past high school and they’re equally happy. I know many people(engineers, physicians and lawyers) making lots of money and they’re miserable. I think we need to redefine success. It’s not as simple as “you make more money and you’re more successful”.


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[::: :::]

A subset of “stop measuring value/worth in dollars”

[neufox47]

My plumber and his son, 27ish both masters. $110 an hour each......

I’d be psyched to get a plumber for $110 an hour here. Last plumbing call I had was more like $150. I don’t think they are father son but old guy and young guy. Old guy is about to retire and sell the business to young guy. Young guy started working for old guy at 16 as a helper. He’s about 25 now. Young guy owns a house, has an expensive truck, and seems to be doing well now. If he isn’t making $100k now he will be soon.

My preference is that my kids go to traditional college. But if I have a kid who just doesn’t like school or really likes a trade I would totally support that. They can have their college money to start a business when they are ready.

[californiagrown]

Im assuming your alma mater is Cal State something or other? For me, it’s hard to fathom those numbers for any CalState when not dinosaur years ago yet, was only a couple hundred for me and UC was 1300 a year ( and they were supposed to be free originally).

This whole thing seems to have broken hugely in the last couple decades which I’ve heard was driven in large part to when loans were paid out to students instead of the institutions. Or something like that. At any rate, fuckin clouds

How much do you think is acceptable for college to cost these days (tuition only, as room+board is generally about or below market rate)?

Aren't most/all plans for free college in america just plans for free tuition, not including room+board? Every bit helps, but it seems like the main cost of college is the room/board/incidentals because even if you made tuition free, kids would still be looking at $50k costs for a 4yr degree.

[Meadow Skipper]

My kiddo’s going to Cal Poly Humboldt next year. Tuition next year is $7.9k. Dorm and meal plan is under $13k.

Fify.

I went to HSU in the 70s, paying for it myself in a way that seems unavailable any more. It was on a quarter system then, ideal flexibility for me. I’d fight fire for the USFS for 4 or 5 months, then get in a couple of quarters in living off my fire earnings. Tuition was way, way cheaper - maybe a couple hundred a quarter. Rent in various dumps in Arcata or McKinleyville wasn’t much either. It took me 7 years to get through, but I feel really lucky. My forestry degree opened the door to fed professional/management positions when I got tired of waking up on the ground all fire season.

/geezer nostalgia, I guess. I don’t know if HSU has the strong forestry program now it had then. I guess someone went and cut down all the trees already.

[californiagrown]

In that case I apologize, that $13k and change number is pretty spot on. My daughter is getting $7k a year in assistance. And it’s much more competitive for assistance these days with the overall cost of college compared to when we attended (92-97 for me) as I’ve seen from all of her applications.

I was in college much more recently than you, FWIW. My family was in that crappy bracket of making too much for automatic financial assistance, but living in HCOLA california we didnt have the extra money that would be expected so i had to hunt down and apply for private scholarships (each requiring a separate application, i held between 10-15 at all times, most in the $250-$500 range), and then also put my summer earnings towards college. Graduated with about $35k in debt.

How much college debt do you think is acceptable? Even if tuition is free, you're still staring down $50k-$60k in room+board+incidentals for 4years (if you graduate in 4). Do you think that should also be free?

[Mustonen]

For the average, sure a degree will net some money. But that is for people who subscribe to the pattern society sets.

That’s a fine thing to pontificate on, but you’re literally describing the exception to the rule, and being the exception to the rule isn’t the best thing to plan on because only so many people can be the exception. We still need Ditch diggers and accountants and all the people who draw a wage working for the exceptions, and that’s best served by a degree.

IME, there’s a pretty strong corollary between attaining a degree and being able to act with agency to achieve goals.

My 17yo has decided that community college is the money smart move after HS, and she can transfer from there to a 4 year school after she’s put in a couple years. Smart, but she’s taking it as a bit of an excuse to coast I fear.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

That’s a fine thing to pontificate on, but you’re literally describing the exception to the rule, and being the exception to the rule isn’t the best thing to plan on because only so many people can be the exception. We still need Ditch diggers and accountants and all the people who draw a wage working for the exceptions, and that’s best served by a degree.

IME, there’s a pretty strong corollary between attaining a degree and being able to act with agency to achieve goals.

My 17yo has decided that community college is the money smart move after HS, and she can transfer from there to a 4 year school after she’s put in a couple years. Smart, but she’s taking it as a bit of an excuse to coast I fear.

Is your daughter happy?


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[Buzzworthy]

How much college debt do you think is acceptable? Even if tuition is free, you're still staring down $50k-$60k in room+board+incidentals for 4years (if you graduate in 4). Do you think that should also be free?

My daughter has a $40k fund from investments since birth by us and my parents. She’s going to spend a decent chunk of that on dorms and food this freshman year. She’s also already thinking unless she RA’s for free room and board next year, she may live at home here to save her money for med school. It’s only an hour train ride right into campus from the station that’s basically 4 minutes from the house. So yes, the real cost of college is the living part when you have tuition assistance.

My opinion on this forgiveness stuff?
None of it should be free. You take out loans, you pay them back like the rest of us. Guess I’m old school mentality on this stuff.

[SumJongGuy]

My opinion on this forgiveness stuff?
None of it should be free. You take out loans, you pay them back like the rest of us. Guess I’m old school mentality on this stuff.

Honest thoughts in how the loans are structured.. Should the offspring of people earning $300K+ a year and/or with over a million in the bank get the exact same loan structure and interest as a kid growing up in the projects or in foster care?

[Conundrum]

That’s a fine thing to pontificate on, but you’re literally describing the exception to the rule, and being the exception to the rule isn’t the best thing to plan on because only so many people can be the exception. We still need Ditch diggers and accountants and all the people who draw a wage working for the exceptions, and that’s best served by a degree.

That's why I said average. Being exceptional isn't for everyone. For the people I know that I was referencing, the money is a byproduct, not the goal. Don't worry, I'm a four year degree average kind of person. Still not sure how much correlation there is between my income and degree though.

[Danno]

The world needs ditch diggers too, Danny.

[Bunion 2020]

My opinion on this forgiveness stuff?
None of it should be free. You take out loans, you pay them back like the rest of us. Guess I’m old school mentality on this stuff.

I'm not sure about the fairness or the rewarding of bad decisions mantra, good arguments on both sides. I do not think the POTUS has this power and should not have this power.

[bodywhomper]

Fify.

I went to HSU in the 70s, paying for it myself in a way that seems unavailable any more. It was on a quarter system then, ideal flexibility for me. I’d fight fire for the USFS for 4 or 5 months, then get in a couple of quarters in living off my fire earnings. Tuition was way, way cheaper - maybe a couple hundred a quarter. Rent in various dumps in Arcata or McKinleyville wasn’t much either. It took me 7 years to get through, but I feel really lucky. My forestry degree opened the door to fed professional/management positions when I got tired of waking up on the ground all fire season.

/geezer nostalgia, I guess. I don’t know if HSU has the strong forestry program now it had then. I guess someone went and cut down all the trees already.

Yes! Absolutely cal poly humboldt! Lots of opportunities there for my liberal arts minded kid who loves hard sciences.

[bodywhomper]

Y’all know folks that started college but couldn’t finish because of the draw of powders days and long ski seasons? I know 2. I’m pretty sure they both dropped out of school with debt. Ones a carpenter and patrol director. The other is a landscaper and ski school instructor. Both seem happy and seem to find fulfillment in their jobs.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Honest thoughts in how the loans are structured.. Should the offspring of people earning $300K+ a year and/or with over a million in the bank get the exact same loan structure and interest as a kid growing up in the projects or in foster care?

Well, my daughters have been able to get through school without a lot of debt. My oldest with a 5.5 year double major in physics and engineering has $2k debt after graduating and the younger daughter none after finishing her junior year. It’s largely due to my solid middle class income. They did it mostly with grants and scholarships along with meager help from me and their grandmother. So that’s my experience. I’m unsuccessful though by the measures put forth in this thread.


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[californiagrown]

Honest thoughts in how the loans are structured.. Should the offspring of people earning $300K+ a year and/or with over a million in the bank get the exact same loan structure and interest as a kid growing up in the projects or in foster care?

I think all student loans should have interest rates that directly correlate to inflation so that they are effectively 0% interest loans for the lender. And i think we should expand the loan forgiveness programs for teachers, social workers, govt workers, etc.

That's why I said average. Being exceptional isn't for everyone. For the people I know that I was referencing, the money is a byproduct, not the goal. Don't worry, I'm a four year degree average kind of person. Still not sure how much correlation there is between my income and degree though.

How many kids go to college and then work a career that they dislike? How many kids dont go to college and then work a career they dislike? I bet they are relatively equal, so if the job isnt going to be liked ya might as well make good money. the hard part is getting kids to not simply chase money at the expense of actually liking their job/career field.

[mcski]

Military contracting, gambling, farmers/ranchers, athletes, coding, arts/music, day trading, working hard for a business owner and putting in some time, sales.

I thought maybe some useful industries or jobs might get listed but this list is borderline retarded

Military contractors? Sure if you already done some real time in the actual military

Gambling ? Bwahahahahaha

Farmers? Sure if your family already owns a farm or you have some specific knowledge (prob gained from an ag based uni)

Athletes? You can’t fuckin be serious

Arts? See above

Day trading? See gambling above

Sales and Coding are the only things listed that could be attainable for the average Schmoe

There are def people making good money doing the otherwise, but listing them is pretty ridiculous when people are here are debating feasible alternatives to making a decent living outside of college degrees

[californiagrown]

I thought maybe some useful industries or jobs might get listed

I personally know people in the following fields with less than a 4yr degree (some with no college) that make around or exceed $200k:

Civil Engineer (started as a drafter, not a PE)
CAD manager
Superintendent/project manager for large construction
RE Developer
Car Sales

[Mustonen]

I think all student loans should have interest rates that directly correlate to inflation so that they are effectively 0% interest loans for the lender.

So all student loans should be subsidized? I agree in subsidizing them in some way, I just think it’s interesting how we twist ourselves into pretzels to make it happen.