ON3P SKIS Discussion

[PowTron]

I know... it’s legitimately not fair to anyone else not riding them. Superhero skis. Stoked to hear you’re as pleased as I’ve been.

The asym and the shape has as much to do with the ease as the width. Other skis can be wide, but do not have RES and this taper/asym style mixed in.

Can’t believe how much this ski has evolved since the first re-design Scott and I did waaaaay back. Each tweak (4 CD versions) we made it better by some strange stroke of luck [emoji6]

[kid-kapow]

a comparison between w114s and the new C&D would be interesting

thanks for sharing the stoke though! Nice pics too

[PowTron]

Powtron: can you compare to BG? Little concerned about the softer tour flex. Obviously, I need to ski a pair but until then...

They are not soft. They flex pretty much just like my BG Tours which are barely softer than stock BG. Don't let that scare you as they have so much carbon in them it makes up the difference for me with the thinner core profile.

I am sitting at 190lbs right now and I wouldn't even mind them a tad softer in super fluff. But for versatility the flex is dialed on the tour flex CD versions.

[bskin]

Dang this seems like the wrens and C&Ds might be a better quiver since my BGs only come out on deep days.


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[PowTron]

Dang this seems like the wrens and C&Ds might be a better quiver since my BGs only come out on deep days.


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I’ve been rocking Wren 108, Wren 114, and CD now the last two weeks (5 days of skiing or so).

I really only use my BG Tour on touring days now and have two days this year. I find myself reaching for the Wren 114 a LOT more these days.

[bskin]

I’ve been rocking Wren 108, Wren 114, and CD now the last two weeks (5 days of skiing or so).

I really only use my BG Tour on touring days now and have two days this year. I find myself reaching for the Wren 114 a LOT more these days.

Well the BGs will move fast if I go that route.


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[Tailwind]

Any thoughts on the Wren 114’s vs 108’s?

I don’t tend to mind wide skis so the 114’s are quite tempting for a soft and variable charger ski.

I’ve been rocking Wren 108, Wren 114, and CD now the last two weeks (5 days of skiing or so).

I really only use my BG Tour on touring days now and have two days this year. I find myself reaching for the Wren 114 a LOT more these days.

[tlr]

Thanks MHSP and PowTron for your reviews! Pulled the trigger on last pair of C&D on Evo today. Just couldn’t wait any longer with all the good vibes and new snow. I just hope I don’t regret not getting the SuperGoats instead. Still a little worried about too soft of flex and too short. Always liked long and relatively stiff skis. Also on bigger days, I am one of the few that likes 125 plus width underfoot.

I will write up review vs my current Atlas 192 I ski on powder days. Also have 195 Praxis Powder boards and a have a small amount of time on 196 protest. Will write a little review once I mount up the new C&D with comparisons.

[MHSP1497]

Thanks MHSP and PowTron for your reviews! Pulled the trigger on last pair of C&D on Evo today.

Right on, man. You will not be disappointed. It’s hard to put into words just how much fun these skis are. Confidence inspiring. Make you feel like Bart Simpson’s pet elephant, “Stampy,” because they stomp everything. Don’t overthink and just enjoy...

[tlr]

[QUOTE Don’t overthink and just enjoy...[/QUOTE]

You can’t overthink the most important decision of your life!

[Doremite]

Had a Wren 108 stompy chargy smeary all around stable playful platform epiphany in ec pow today. Really blown away w what ON3P is up to these days. Impressed is an understatement.

[tlr]

Will my 115 mm brakes on look p18 I have sitting around be wide enough for C&D?

[jackattack]

Had a Wren 108 stompy chargy smeary all around stable playful platform epiphany in ec pow today. Really blown away w what ON3P is up to these days. Impressed is an understatement.

The w108's are killer for sure. These have become my daily drivers. I bought them from Aever. I think they were warranty replacements or something after he jumped on a rock. I wonder if they’re actually less stiff than the current model because I can’t imagine needing them to be stiffer. Flex about the same as my 1.5 supergoats.



Supergoats have been rad lately too, but they’re a bit of an adjustment from the wren. You can push as hard as you want on the wrens whereas the goats want a centered stance.



Goats are a riot in deep and funky snow. Wrens are good in pow too, great in variable, really makes me want to ride the w114's.

[Bandit Man]

Thanks MHSP and PowTron for your reviews! Pulled the trigger on last pair of C&D on Evo today. Just couldn’t wait any longer with all the good vibes and new snow. I just hope I don’t regret not getting the SuperGoats instead. Still a little worried about too soft of flex and too short. Always liked long and relatively stiff skis. Also on bigger days, I am one of the few that likes 125 plus width underfoot.

I will write up review vs my current Atlas 192 I ski on powder days. Also have 195 Praxis Powder boards and a have a small amount of time on 196 protest. Will write a little review once I mount up the new C&D with comparisons.

I supposed I should thank you. I feel like I just made $799 since I didn’t donate it to Evo. [emoji16]


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[Bandit Man]

The w108's are killer for sure. These have become my daily drivers. I bought them from Aever. I think they were warranty replacements or something after he jumped on a rock. I wonder if they’re actually less stiff than the current model because I can’t imagine needing them to be stiffer. Flex about the same as my 1.5 supergoats.

Goats are a riot in deep and funky snow. Wrens are good in pow too, great in variable, really makes me want to ride the w114's.

Interesting response. I had the last Wren 108 in a 189 (16-17 I think) and they were noticeably softer than my current Asym 189 BG’s. Also, ON3P site says that the BG and Wren 108 have the same flex pattern 7-9-8. I wonder if the mellower rocker profile has anything to do with the perceived stiffer flex of the Wren? Regardless, seems like a rocking quiver you have going on!


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[kid-kapow]

my experience with 2018 w108s was that the shovels on the 184 were a fair bit softer than those on the 179s. I dunno if that was by design, variations in materials or if w108s 179s were made later on. 2018 and 2019 w108s in 179 feel really similar when hand flexing, as mentioned previously. The only difference is a slight difference in underfoot flex, though that might just be a slightly stiffer front making the center flex ever so slightly differently. The 2018 iteration was fine by me, so it will be interesting to try the new ones. My custom stiffer pre-asym BGs in 184 were also a bit softer than my asym 179s, but that was probably just due to the latter not being worn in I sold both BGs though.

I am really curious how the new C&Ds compliments w114s. That sounds like a really good one two wider quiver punch to me.

[tlr]

You are welcome BanditMan! you are not out of the woods yet. When wife finds out about the purchase, some C&D will be up for sale on gearswap.

[theetruscan]

sell something else...

[MHSP1497]

So I took the C&D’s out today on a decidedly BG kinda day, just to see how they were. Surprisingly, they were great. Made for slightly sore knees from riding firm groomers, but were otherwise well mannered. When I could find stashes of soft snow, they were epic. Interestingly, they tore thru the chop at Mach looney just like my BG’s do but felt more solid. These are still my favorite skis and I suspect I’ll be riding them in more conditions where they’re egregiously fat, but just oh so much fun that I don’t care. I brought the BG’s and thought about going to the car to swap out, but was enjoying myself enough to let it go...

Also had a chance to evaluate the mogul performance of these C&D’s. They swing around really well and enable “follow the rivers” well enough. Not an ideal ski, but capable enough that getting thru them isn’t terrifying. Pick thru them carefully until you see an opening then, point and go and fly away.

[iggyskier]

Maybe not too obvious, but took a bit of a TGR break this fall, so back to finally get caught up on a lot of pages. Sorry for the length on this one.

Interesting response. I had the last Wren 108 in a 189 (16-17 I think) and they were noticeably softer than my current Asym 189 BG’s. Also, ON3P site says that the BG and Wren 108 have the same flex pattern 7-9-8. I wonder if the mellower rocker profile has anything to do with the perceived stiffer flex of the Wren? Regardless, seems like a rocking quiver you have going on!

18/19 Wren profile is quite a bit stiffer than the 16/17 and 17/18 through the forebody of both the tip and tail. It's really noticeable when you drive the skis and how the skis hold in a turn. The very tips are similar but the stiffness change from around 40-70cm into the skis makes a pretty big change in how hard you can drive the skis.

Those 3-point flex profiles are fine for a macro view of flex, but it's hard for them to convey the differences between models or years. We're trying to work on a better way to show flex for 2020.

Will my 115 mm brakes on look p18 I have sitting around be wide enough for C&D?

Yes. We're putting 95mm brakes on 108s without stretching if needed. 115 should fit a CD. Any ski ordered with a 102mm width and down we automatically fulfill with 95mm brakes, even if 115 were ordered, because the brakes widths are not even remotely accurate.

Am I correct that with Powtron's "retirement" there are no Colorado demos. The calendar on the website shows quite a few demos in I-dee-ho and Montucky. Of course this could prompt a trip to Bridger, which wouldn't be the worst thing in the world ;-)

Second question: is the demo fleet WTR compatible this year? I believe Iggy said it is.

Third: Are there any C&D's in the demo fleet (WTR compatible)?

Assuming "yes" to #3, all I have to do is time the storm cycle in Montucky.

Thanks!
Thom

Small fleet running out of CB this year, then a large fleet with a lot of days out of MT. Still working on some demo dates. Nothing running East of CO this year at least. They are a lot more financially and labor intensive then they look, and we’re just finding other methods of sellings skis goes a lot further on the dollar, so at this time likely going to just stick with the two west coast fleets. The number of resorts that will host us too only seems to be getting smaller, so we’ll see what the future holds.

At this time, no Cease & Desist in the demo fleets though. It’s far too small of a production run to work into demo fleets.

I believe the Attack 13 demos can do WTR and Gripwalk.

Long time follower but a new member here. Any notable on snow differences between the 17/18 and 18/19 BGs? Sold my 17/18s earlier this season when I thought I was done with a leg injury. Just got cleared by the doc and new skis coming in tomorrow.

Same ski. Will apply to 2020 too.

I tried search function in this thread, but no luck, but I know there was some discussion about core shot repairs. I finally got one on my kartels after sending a 10 foot drop directly onto a shark.

If I'm remembering correctly, Scott offered up some spare/scrap base material for the repair. If that offer still stands, I'd love to get some so I can make my bases good as new. I'll be happy to pay for the trouble, whatcha say, iggy?

If you need some base for a base weld, just email us and we will mail one out. Include a photo of the base and I will do our best to match the graphic.

Anyone holding a Steeple 108? Looking to buy

Not right now but I did find a new 184 Steeple 116 from last year in a rack recently.

I love my wrens (I’ve had 5 pairs), and thought the BG were a slam dunk. Tried all the tricks here and don’t feel the magic.
I don’t feel confident charging on them like the wrens, and I don’t think they pivot all that much quicker in tight trees.

In most cases I’ve seen, the people who struggle with BGs after enjoying Wrens are overdriving them and losing pressure on the rear part of the skis. If that is the case, you are purely skiing on the reserve section of the ski. The sidecut in the tail helps anchor the ski for stability so skiing them over the forebody is the ideal spot.

I may be in Summit County the week of Feb. 3-9 and have been dying to try some ON3P gear. Anyone know if a shop in or around the Breck area has rentals with bindings that fit Hawx Ultra XTD touring boots?

No shops in the area, but might be possible Powder 7 or evo in Denver have a demo.

Back to tuning chat - my K108s are still on the factory tune. I love them and have no desire to change how they ski. Will my shop be able to tell that they came from the factory at 1/1 or do I need to specify? Very good/reputable shop fwiw. Not sure if I'm a beater for never asking what my edge angles are being done at or if this shop is just good so it has never been a problem.

If they have a tool to measure angle, they will know, but I would just tell em. Biggest key post shop tune is gonna be making sure they detune everything outside the running length. We’re seeing most shops run skis sharp all the way now with hardly a gummi detune.

Im glad you posted this. I just thought I was loosing it and couldn’t ski them. Which is confusing because they are not stiff or heavy or super cambered at all and ON3P is all about the factory tune being dialed.

Ive also been riding a Brahma all season so far.

If you want, let me send you a return label on them. Could even mail out a box for us. The only people I know of with continues edge issues from all of last you are you & ugly, so would love to see the skis in person if possible. We would of course retune them before sending them back.

I had a custom order that was never quite right from this same time frame. Failed tune at a local shop, I eventually sent them to on3p directly so they can tune/detune back to factory settings. Should be getting them back any day.

Back out to you this week so will be curious if it helps. The shop tune had basically full sharpness so not surprised they were scary post shop tune.

dhoh! I've been running a diamond stone on my kartels at 2 degrees on the side.
I'm kind of gaper in terms of tuning -- is there a good reason to keep on3ps at 1 and 1? (especially if you're not on the east coast)

On a similar note, I'm sure it's been covered somewhere in this thread, but are y'all detuning BGs? And how would you do it with the asym?

Good to know the W108 behaves well with 1/3. That's how all my other skis are tuned (I'm EC as well) but I remember reading some stuff a few pages back about how ON3P thinks their skis work better with a 1/1 tune (I think).

1/1 is the tune where we find the skis ski best for the most people. If you find you prefer them at 1/3, go for it. I have no issues with people adjusting it to their personal preference.

Yeah I keep the BG 1 1. I live in the lower midwest. 1 3 is standard issue here. I also carry files and diamond stones with me wherever I go so durable edges are less important to me. Also we have like 12 pairs of active skis in our family quiver and I like KISS. My Wren 98's are 27,000 times more smearable after a good grind and the 1 3 than they were before so shrug. To each their own.

Glad this was able to get solved. For our own info, was the feeling it was because the skis were edge high, or the edge was flat? Obviously pretty rare that we have tune issues, so would love to know more.

you should. I hated my Wren 98s until I fully ground and retuned and detuned them. I bought them used so I have no idea what happened to them before I got them.

I assume this is an additional tune after the first go round when REI sent the skis out super sharp?

I think the BG vs K116 decision is an easy one. Do you plan to jump and land switch in pow at all, go K116. If not which I assume is the case from your description, go BG, and keep those jibby K98s (which seems far more relevant for your area) for everyday.

We’re trying to get people thinking about skis as a function of platform. It’s the reason we maintain ski widths between the different lines. The more important thing when buying the skis is mount/balance and how it fits what you do - and it’s very different between the BG and Kartel.

On that note, how annoying do I have to be to get Iggy to build a 184 ski out of the Billy goat mould that weighs under 9 lbs? I know it’s anathema to on3p and it couldn’t really be accurately named a billy goat, but I would happily pay full price for that ski before anybody else skied it and told me if it was good or bad.

It’s not really my style to go full aever but I’d really love an RES touring ski that wasn’t stupid heavy. I guess there are no on3p skis that don’t have bamboo cores? The praxis enduro/veneer layup with RES would be super rad IMO.
.

We’re slowing working on this again, but for now, a lot of other ski designs in the works ahead of it. Core stuff takes time to dial, as we need to get a long term cycle on the skis to see how camber, flex, etc all hold up.

[iggyskier]

There’s nothing like skiburger for ON3P right?

No.

I was initially relieved with powtron snatching last pair of 189 C&D. It was going to resolve the issue of C&D or 193 SuperGoats. Now with all the C&D stoke I want the C&D. Errr, too big of decision!

In the end I know I am holding off because in the middle of building home and not wise move to spend money on skis at this point, but then again I have made a lot of unwise moods that have made me happy.

We did just build (3) pairs of 189cm CD with black tops to get a few more available.

Don’t be intimidated by the BGs. You sound like a competent skier. It’s my favorite ski out of several I own. Also this notion that they don’t have good packed snow manners is horseshit. Once you click with them you could practically ski them any day 2”+ True they’re not icy carvers. [speaking to ‘17- current version ]
Go 184 and thank us later

I just always tell people to ski within the limits of the ski. If you stay in the forebody and drive from there, you carve nice. If you drive past that, you lose the radius in the tail and they wander.

I was seeing someone on here recently too who was I believe around 5’6” on a 186cm from 2015ish and really struggled with them wander. Similar type problem, just on the other end of the spectrum. If you are too small and cannot get the skis to flex, they will also wander.

It’s definitely a design that requires a certain style on hardpack, but then again, I...don’t really care about hardpack.

Iggy, when will the 211cm Billygoat become available for us TGR hardmen?

Not sure we have time to build more mogul skis.

On3P Fam – I need some of your collective advice because my indecision on which pair of skis to get is annoying the shit out of me.
I’m 90% set on a pair of K108s, but I can’t decide on 181s or 186s (I’m slightly tempted to get K116s. And the BGs have been off my radar – I’m a bit intimidated by their stiff flex/long radius—but I’m intrigued by them as well).

Can anyone compare the K108 181 to the 186? How much of a difference does 5cms make on this ski? How much stability and float/less tip dive versus difficulty to control, issues in bumps, etc? I've never skied a rockered ski longer than 184 (but I do like that length)
Any idea if there will be changes for next year? – I’m tempted to hold out for the new line.

I have K98s (181) and love them—my favorite ski ever. Perfect low tide sticks. I like this length (I’m never overpowered by them) but in a few inches of soft snow/cut up snow they feel borderline short, and sometimes seems like not too much ski in front of me or I get bucked around a bit, hence my question on the 186s. On the other hand, as I age I would rather err on the short side for control and ability to pivot in trees and I’m tempted to stay with the length I know (no chance of demoing up here). And don’t ON3Ps measure longer than others?

Here’s more of my story (sorry for the blog) – 5-10, 160lbs, 44yrs. Skiing Canadian Rockies. Ski everywhere, and will mess around in the park here and there (booters, not rails) and a little swich (180s, etc, though mostly directional in soft snow). We see a lot of 3-8 inch dumps of dry snow. I tend to ski hard in the morning, and slow down in the afternoon when the advil wears off and I feel my age and injuries.

The K108s are to replace my 184 Moment deathwishes (love these as a one ski quiver, great on firm snow for their width and don't feel a need to go longer than 184 on them, but i find the triple camber a little funky in variable conditions, and not as smeary/slarvy as i like, and they don’t have the kartel pop for ollies). I also have an old (2009) pair of Atomic Bent chetlers (123/183) which I used to love, but feel like overkill in the resort and kind of clunky now (considering replacing these with BG’s next year, but that’s less of a priority then the daily soft snow driver).

I’d likely lean 181. That would be the most natural do-it-all ski for the West. I could see considering going longer for the powder skis, but you are so light that unless you really like to drive your skis, you wouldn’t need it.

Our 181cm will be the same length as Moment 184cm.

The Bibby is more like a stiffer Kartel 116 than a Billy Goat.

Bibby is sort of like a Wren/Kartel mix, IMO. More progressive mount, but larger radius. I always felt is fell in between a Kartel and BG/Wren and isn’t really a direct competitor to either, regarding the platform and radius.

Better than Wren 88s?

Metal is blowing some minds in here for sure. That said, as things current stand, I think we will continue to offer both. I still maintain, for a good portion of people (likely the majority), the non-metal will be the more ideal ski. Metal really upping stability and edge hold, but makes the ski a bit more one-dimensional. That is what a lot of people want on the Wren, though.

Like I said, though, metal layups have been blowing some peoples minds.

Thoughts on new C&D vs last year model? Looking for a ski to replace my Atomic Atlas and prior to that Big Dumps. A little nervous this year C&D have touring layup. I only ski resort and don’t want to compromise. Been thinking SuperGoats possibly, however I have always liked 120 plus skis for where I ski in Utah and part of our mountain has some lower angle terrain that 120 plus maintain speed because float so well. However I could be convinced otherwise.

Both years had a tour layup, but this year’s flexes stiffer because of the decreased rocker. Unless you are really heavy, I wouldn’t worry on the flex.

2019 CD vs previous years comes down to snow. Do you cat ski year round? Go old skis. Do you ski in bounds? Go new skis. New ski loses a bit of top end pow performance, but we wanted to make a powder ski real skiers could use, not just a ski we dream about using.

First sorry. This thread is just too huge to go back through. Kartel 96, would appreciate thoughts as a playful everyday/day after it’s snowed kind of ski? Have the Kartel 116 and skinnier skis, looking to replace Scott P4 in the middle.

If you like the balance of the 116 and want something more hard snow oriented, 96 is great.

When you're skiing really deep pow - even Sierra Cement - you don't want an extremely stiff ski in the first place, especially in the tips as they won't plane as well. Tour layup for C&D's makes sense. They're still ON3P's so going to be plenty stiff anyway.

Yep.

To be honest, I am surprised that the wren98 SG is the last to sell. That was probably a tie for their best graphic last year (I really love the C&D design too). It looks phenomenal!

Obviously, having tried neither I cannot really chime in on how they ski. Also, if you want a charger a w114 might be the ticket as well

Agreed. Wren line is my favorite graphic this year. To be honest, though, we pretty well tapped that Supergoat market and most people don’t even know it is there.

Can anyone post up some bg rocker pics? Website says 'freeride rocker' which is the same description the wrens have, but looking at my wrens it seems like it'd be a lot of camber underfoot for a designated pow board?

The rocker description is just a general term related to it’s design (more rocker in the tip, less in the tail). Different rocker profiles between to two series.

Has anyone heard any updated on the metal wrenegades or know if this is still happening?

i heard they're gonna have metal in em

^

We’ll release more when we actually have a real timeline. Going as fast as we can, but takes time on a whole new core profile like this. It will be out when its ready.

I think if you're wanting to add metal to a Wren you would probably welcome the extra weight for resort skiing. I would be curious to know if they have other core changes to offset the metal though.

That is pretty interesting!

How much weight does the metal add, or is the increase in stiffness negated for with a thinner core making the overall weight gain negliable? Not that weight is the end all be all - it is not, especially for resort skis, but still kinda interesting. Does your w114 sport titanal as well?

It adds a ton of damping to the ride. We’re not going the way of some other skis that are going super super light core material with metal. Still 100% bamboo core - with the metal inset into the core material.

Weight wise, a bit early to say as we’re still finalizing the core but don’t expect extra weight.

What's a chargier ski? Supergoats in aeverflex or 11 Wrens?

That Wren was mounted like -14 or something crazy, so probably that.

General question:

I have some current year 190 Bibby’s that I like... but they get kicked around to much skiing fast on variable run outs. I think I notice the lighter weight of the current crop.

Can anyone comment on the overall stability of a 189 Wren 114 (or 108) in variable snow in comparison to the Bibby? I know the shape itself will Ski a bit different also.

Wren 114 is a gun. It’s the most stable ski we make. Should also note - it won’t be available in the future, except on custom.

[iggyskier]

So...shall we get a group buy thread going for fall 2020 delivery?

Iggy, do we need to do that - or is something already in the works for next year?

Maybe.

Wonder if the old j110 tooling could be modified to create this.

We generally burn the boats, so that stuff is all gone.

Will there be any changes to the Jessie line next year?

161cm Jessie 108 will be back. 176cm Jessie 108 is gone.

Hoping my wife has the same experience now that I’ve detuned her pair after she struggled with them.

Any improvements on this?

But Scott said a 28m radius for that ski just won't sell so we'll just have to see what they do. If it doesn't work out, I've also been eyeing a bamboo-core Deathwish with the Bibby flex and rocker. I can't fault ON3P for wanting to sell skis and keep the lights on.

*Though I have been tossing around the idea of a stock K108 or M102 for funzies. I really wanted Tahoe J's white pair, but they were way out of my budget.

Not many people interested in skis over 25m, even for a small brand like ours. We even get a lot of people who ask for essentially a 21m Wren 108 even. I know it has been said on here a lot, but TGR sales vs general skiing market sales are pretty different.

I feel like multiple people (including Blister) have mentioned how the Wren 108 performs well in powder and could be used as a resort pow ski. I spent yesterday skiing the Crags (open spaces, trees, pillows) in about a foot of pow, pretty good quality. I’ve now spent today skiing the same terrain, same conditions on BGs.

They’re not even comparable in powder, the BGs are so much better. Of course the Wrens are better on firm snow, but I’d encourage anyone looking for good pow performance to go for the BGs over the Wrens.

My feeling too. For a 108 directional ski, Wrens do well in powder, but they really are designed as a do it all ski, where BG is soft snow specific and just has a ton more surface area in the forebody to float on.

I think this 114 is the absolute perfect Loveland, Jackson, Telluride, Alta type ski.

Yep. It could function as a powder ski in areas with room to run.

Love my Billygoats. They are 2017 issue bought here in Colorado local from a guy that tore his ACL....skiied 3 times with Marker Jester bindings for $300 bucks. Im 5'11 / 200# and his they are 184 length....ski awesome to me.

I have a pair of 181cm Kartel 108s and just cant get comfortable in them. They seem "squirrley" to me for lack of better words. Why is that? Is it due to the tail of the Kartel vs the BG? Ive thought about selling the Kartels and maybe trying to find something a bit narrower that wont be anywhere close to overlapping the BG. I dont do park and rarely ski switch so dont really need the twin tip (bought the Kartel off friends advice instead of what I really needed).

Two things.

Size wise, you should be on the 186cm.
Trying skiing them a bit more balanced. If you are over driving them, at your height/weight on a 181cm, you are likely finding that the ski isn’t long enough in the tips to act as a proper counter lever. That is going to cause them to wander and fold a bit.

This has probably been beaten to death in this thread before, but I'm looking to replace some Sin 7s as my inbounds daily driver (too short, too soft). I picked up some Steeple 116's for touring this year, which I've been digging. Resort skiied 'em for a few days to get used to them and really dug them, so I'm thinking of sticking with ON3P for the inbounds DD. I'm looking somewhere in the 95-108 category.

Wren or Kartel? I really like how easy the Steeples (basically BGs) are to turn in tight trees, etc, which is making me lean towards Kartel, but I don't really ski the park at all, and tend towards bigger open turns in open terrain.

I would just focus on the mount and radius. Wren = driven tips and big radius. Kartel = balanced and tight radius. Style can change by snow condition - so if you want something more playful and fun when the snow is hard, Kartel probably gets the nod.

Agreed. V trench. Those skis did look very soft. Noodles gonna noodle. Perfect jibber flex. Booooiiinng!

Stiffer than they look. Those guys are just able to flex skis in ways most cannot.

Interesting move. I'll be curious to hear how it turns out.

Those ON3P movies don't do it for me at all. Almost to the point that I didn't even give the skis a chance and I live in Portland. Needless to say I'm glad I skied them and ended up on Wren 108s. But I really wish they would do a film with their big mountain riders. I get that they have a niche with the park guys and need to make money but I think they could capture a larger big mountain market with a separate flick. I also know it's not easy to fund and put together a quality flick but I bet they could get 10 Barrel or a local brewery and some other sponsors together.

Glad to hear you ended up enjoying the skis. Obviously we sell a lot of different models to a variety of different skier types.

Money wise, the difference between a 20 minute park movie and 20 minute big mountain movie would end up being into the many thousands of dollars (no joke) so just not really in the cards at the moment. We’re obviously working to get a few other non-park athletes in the game, but cost is substantial and, at least with 3, the goal was to make a park specific movie based upon the vibe of friends together on a trip to Oregon. 2 obviously featured a segment filmed in Japan, and we we’ve done things like the 3-part Japan movie in the past.

Re: breweries or other people helping to foot the bill - these are things we of course go after, but nothing in that realm of interest thus far. At this point, it’s hard work to just get people hill with tickets covered, even in exchange for literally millions of impressions on social media and often times skis + cash. Just the way the ski industry is. We’re working on getting better at it, but nothing is given.

Even so, we still sell more all mountain skis than park specific skis by quite a bit.

Yeah, my journey with ON3P has been an interesting one in that regard. Their movies are a niche product catering to a very in particular crowd for sure, but it does elicit some reactions which is the point according to Scott. It is def not a super scripted movie of skiing perfection, but friends having fun. I can relate to that, even if I can't to their skiing or choice of styles. I dunno, it is kinda off putting and refreshing at the same time.

At the end of the day though I think those movies have more kids stoked to go skiing than most of the superbootermovies combined in that what they portray probably seem a bit more attainable - which it really isn't, it is still super hard. Regardless though, for the "wrong" people, the movies might be more off putting than promotional. That is fine i guess, everything can't cater to everybody all the time.

For sure, I would not complain if ON3P 4 was all back country slaying, but then again - most of their other athletes put out a ton of good content like mr Fostvedts "Stray dogs" or edits on Insta. I am not complaining, variety is nice.

It was and remains fascinating to me to see the reactions to some of the content we put out - as if the definition of what skiing should be is fixed on one side.

It always felt weird to me to have a us vs you feel to discussions on skiing content. The more the merrier for me. I’m glad there is a bit spectrum of skiers getting after it.

And yes, as noted, a lot of the athlete content that is more mainstream is on the more powder end. For ON3P produced content, obviously the only way we can swing it is to do so at bottom dollar.

That is it for now. Hope everyone has a good MLK.

[MHSP1497]

“Any improvements on this?”

She hasn’t been out on them again as conditions and timing of her days off have yet to correlate. I took a quick lap on them the other day and they felt just like my 184’s, only with that same round flex as my C&D’s due to the tour layup. She’s coming up to Whistler with me at the end of the month, so hopefully she’ll get to give ‘em another go.

Her complaint was was that they felt “too locked” into a line and she was having trouble breaking them off that line to turn, which was why I thought to de-tune them further. Will definitely post her thoughts once she’s given them another chance.

[mr_pretzel]

Is there still something coming that will make all the wren kartel tweeners happy or do I just forget about that and continue bathing in the glory my wren 108s.

[kid-kapow]

It was and remains fascinating to me to see the reactions to some of the content we put out - as if the definition of what skiing should be is fixed on one side.

It always felt weird to me to have a us vs you feel to discussions on skiing content. The more the merrier for me. I’m glad there is a bit spectrum of skiers getting after it.

I notice that the reply wrt to brand management, customer perception vs projected brand image in a world of increased tribalism due to social media / reward pathway induced behavior is just going to be too long and probably not add anything that you or anybody else already aren't aware of, so I will not bore you with it I find the topic to be very interesting though - psychology meets marketing meets social dynamics. In a world of (widely differing) social norms and group & indidivudal identities, the us vs them effect is kinda inevitable though.

Oh well eh - one cannot be all things to everybody, or please everybody all the time. The risk of alienating some while catering to others is kinda par for the course. Reaction means engagement which means interest - so if nothing else, feedback of any sort is mostly a positive. The alternative is disengagement - aka stop supporting a brand. Yay marketing and branding creating new issues while fixing others

Wren 114 is a gun. It’s the most stable ski we make. Should also note - it won’t be available in the future, except on custom.

I have been really curious how w114 were selling. I guess this partially answers that question. Still, I am beyond excited that you offered em this year - cannot wait to try them!