Electric Bike Thread

**grinch** · 09-12-2018, 11:40 PM

Originally Posted by gravitylover

Nah you still work for it just differently. The good ones use torque sensors so you need to put out to get anything out of it unless you just want to putt along and that won't work going uphill, only on the flats. You hear people saying they climb faster and that's true but they're working pretty hard to make it happen. You're also getting a different upper body workout because you need to move the additional mass around and you still need to be smooth so you can't just point and shoot, breaking traction still has the same negatives.

I need to work on my sarcasm. Well technically , sarcasm for the pro ebikers and trolling the haters.
When do we get a glimpse of those norco’s? Will they have a 170-180 model?

**gravitylover** · 09-13-2018, 12:00 AM

I gave up trolling the haters, just tell 'em exactly what you think of them. I guess that might be tough for you polite Canadian types though

I think you'll start seeing official copy later this fall. No word on a bigger bike yet.

**Dantheman** · 09-13-2018, 09:25 AM

Originally Posted by rod9301

I think that everyone will be overwhelmed by the explosion in e mountain bikes. And the regulators will be forced to accept them.

As will be the old folks on horses.

Well, the rest of us think that your and the bike industry's decision to play Russian Roulette with bike access is wildly reckless and irresponsible. Ebikes are a wet dream for anti-bike activists and regulators.

**cinnepa** · 09-13-2018, 09:42 AM

.....and chunky folks.

**Bunion 2020** · 09-13-2018, 10:05 AM

Originally Posted by Dantheman

Well, the rest of us think that your and the bike industry's decision to play Russian Roulette with bike access is wildly reckless and irresponsible. Ebikes are a wet dream for anti-bike activists and regulators.

This^^^^

Well put.

**Mustonen** · 09-13-2018, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by Beaver

I got passed by an e-bike while I was waiting for my wife at the top of a climb. My wife showed up and I took off after e-bike guy in pursuit mode, just as I was catching him towards the bottom of the hill the trail braided. I took a different route that he did and pinned it up through a short technical bit, when the trails became one again I was in front of him. I pedaled through some more technical shit then the trail got flat and smooth and he wanted around me, I heard, "Hey, can I get by you?" so I said, "Ya sure" but kept moving, he went around me in the grass and sticks (and pokey little fucking cactus things that ensure people who ride off the trail get flats). About 4 minutes later I passed him pushing his bike with a flat, I could have been nice but I just said, "Hey, can I get by you?" and pedaled on by with my spare tube, pump and tools. I'm such a dick.

I agree. You’re a dick.

You probably block the passing lane too because your 5mph over the speed limit is as fast as anybody needs to go on that road.

The threat to access angle is interesting. I just don’t see it, though. Opening up who can access trails (especially if those added include affluent, older people) only guarantees more access when the decision-makers are their peers and business partners.

It’s probably been said, but it feels like we’ve had this conversation several times, except before it was about snowboards. And shaped skis. And fat skis. I expect this will turn out more or less the same.

**Bunion 2020** · 09-13-2018, 10:50 AM

The threat to access angle is interesting. I just don’t see it, though. Opening up who can access trails (especially if those added include affluent, older people) only guarantees more access when the decision-makers are their peers and business partners.

Not trying to be a Dick here but. Logic and common sense when it comes to trail access for mountain bikes went out the window a long time ago.

The people seeking to close trails in Montana are a prime example and will be all over motorized mountain bikes like a bum on a bologna sandwich. See the Polyass/travel plan thread here in SR.

There are several groups with benign sounding names like Backcountry Hunters and Anglers that are actually astro-turf groups funded by other enviro/anti bike access groups. Not sure where you live but in Montana that is a fact of life.

https://www.greendecoys.com/decoys/b...s-and-anglers/

If you wouldn't mind sharing what region you live in I think it would be enlightening.

**CLQ** · 09-13-2018, 10:55 AM

Didn't realize that "From mountain bikes to road bikes" included mopeds.

**TahoeJ** · 09-13-2018, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by Mustonen

The threat to access angle is interesting. I just don’t see it, though. Opening up who can access trails (especially if those added include affluent, older people) only guarantees more access when the decision-makers are their peers and business partners.

Hahahahahahaahahahahahahahaha...

okay, let me compose myself...

hahahahahahahahahhahahahaha...

You clearly are not aware of what the trail access fight has been like in many areas.

**LeeLau** · 09-13-2018, 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by Mustonen

The threat to access angle is interesting. I just don’t see it, though. Opening up who can access trails (especially if those added include affluent, older people) only guarantees more access when the decision-makers are their peers and business partners.

My two decades of advocacy experience says you are completely utterly wrong

In your example, my extensive experience is that affluent older people do not become advocates or help with trailwork. They are users

**Mustonen** · 09-13-2018, 11:43 AM

Meh. We’ll see I guess. I know nothing, just spitballing over here. Seems some guy who can drop $10k on a mountain bike and is otherwise limited by age/time is a better advocate than your average dirtbag mountain biker. Getting their skin in the game seems a good thing, but y’all have a different thing going on out west. I live in MQT MI.

**mcski** · 09-13-2018, 12:14 PM

You do have a point there as maybe some of the horse people money can be mitigated or transferred to bikes at some point. Horse people still make the rules for Bay Area trails and I don't know any poor or dirtbag horse owners in the Bay Area

**TahoeJ** · 09-13-2018, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by Mustonen

Meh. We’ll see I guess. I know nothing, just spitballing over here. Seems some guy who can drop $10k on a mountain bike and is otherwise limited by age/time is a better advocate than your average dirtbag mountain biker. Getting their skin in the game seems a good thing, but y’all have a different thing going on out west. I live in MQT MI.

No, ebikes will cause way more harm than any good they could do in that fight.

There are mountain bikers in Marin who are rich as fuck, heavily involved, and it hasn’t done a damn thing for access. Keep in mind there are some super wealthy Sierra Club types fighting against bikes anywhere they can.

Also: fuck Sierra Club.

**panchosdad** · 09-13-2018, 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by LeeLau

In your example, my extensive experience is that affluent older people do not become advocates or help with trailwork. They are users

Interesting. My experience is different.

**LeeLau** · 09-13-2018, 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by panchosdad

Interesting. My experience is different.

SOME (a small number do). Almost all don't.

Originally Posted by Mustonen

Seems some guy who can drop $10k on a mountain bike and is otherwise limited by age/time is a better advocate than your average dirtbag mountain biker. Getting their skin in the game seems a good thing, but y’all have a different thing going on out west. I live in MQT MI.

The dirtbag is passionate. You have to be to get involved in advocacy which is thankless and hitting the head against the brick wall. The rich older person is almost always a dilettante. The ebike is an accessory for their Cayenne, Arc'teryx Veillance manpurse and custom diamond encrusted DPS quiver

**reckless toboggan** · 09-13-2018, 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by Mustonen

I know nothing, ...

Well, this much is true.

**Mustonen** · 09-13-2018, 05:48 PM

Originally Posted by LeeLau

SOME (a small number do). Almost all don't.

The dirtbag is passionate. You have to be to get involved in advocacy which is thankless and hitting the head against the brick wall. The rich older person is almost always a dilettante. The ebike is an accessory for their Cayenne, Arc'teryx Veillance manpurse and custom diamond encrusted DPS quiver

Yeah. I guess your world is different. In mine, a dirtbag can scream themselves hoarse to accomplish what a rich older guy can get done with a couple comments on the golf course or over drinks. Your comments strike me as a little dogmatic, but good luck with that.

**Shredhead** · 09-14-2018, 06:28 AM

Maybe after hitting your head against the wall for decades, you just want to go ride.

I still ride my AM bike the most, but the Ebike allows me to ride more.
Sometimes you just don’t feel like grinding and it gets me out the door.

**joetron** · 09-14-2018, 08:32 AM

Originally Posted by panchosdad

Interesting. My experience is different.

You’re in the Teton Valley right? Affluent older folks move there to retire and recreate and donate gobs of money to community orgs like Pathways. That’s great , I don’t mean to sound cynical, and I hope be one of those people in like 20 years, but it’s a much different dynamic than many places in the country.

Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

**TahoeJ** · 09-15-2018, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by Mustonen

Yeah. I guess your world is different. In mine, a dirtbag can scream themselves hoarse to accomplish what a rich older guy can get done with a couple comments on the golf course or over drinks. Your comments strike me as a little dogmatic, but good luck with that.

Cool story. Completely irrelevant in actual trail system battlegrounds. You’re coming off incredibly clueless here.

**Mustonen** · 09-15-2018, 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by TahoeJ

Cool story. Completely irrelevant in actual trail system battlegrounds. You’re coming off incredibly clueless here.

Cool man. I’m not trying to be an authority over here. Just conversating. I’m surprised that adding demos to the sport, particularly potentially influential ones, categorically spells doom. I think you might be lacking a bit of perspective, the same way I lack actual experience fighting for trail access out west. I have nothing to prove here. By all means, keep extolling the mythical qualities of the MTB dirtbag.

**toast2266** · 09-15-2018, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by Mustonen

I’m surprised that adding demos to the sport, particularly potentially influential ones, categorically spells doom.

It's a different sport. Mopeds aren't mountain bikes. Your argument isn't any different than saying that adding more dirt bikers would help trail access, and in the vast majority of situations, that's not been the case.

**Mustonen** · 09-15-2018, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by toast2266

It's a different sport. Mopeds aren't mountain bikes. Your argument isn't any different than saying that adding more dirt bikers would help trail access, and in the vast majority of situations, that's not been the case.

You think? Is it really all about the knee jerk reaction that if you didn’t get there out of your own sweat and good health you don’t deserve to be there?

In terms of trail impact and noise (and other) pollution, ebikes are a lot more similar to mountain bikes than mopeds and dirt bikes. It’s disingenuous to equate them. Unless we’re really just talking about elitism.... us worthy few.....

Like I said, I know nothing. But I don’t buy that this is the zero sum game you’re making it out to be, and if it actually is, then I can better sympathize with the other side’s point.

**ill-advised strategy** · 09-15-2018, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by Mustonen

Meh. We’ll see I guess. I know nothing, just spitballing over here. Seems some guy who can drop $10k on a mountain bike and is otherwise limited by age/time is a better advocate than your average dirtbag mountain biker. Getting their skin in the game seems a good thing, but y’all have a different thing going on out west. I live in MQT MI.

There's a whole long phase of this thread where I try to explain what's taken place here with mountain biking since like 1980. There's no doubt in my mind the whole situation here is very different than most of the locations of most of the posters in this thread.

Couple developments from my end, personally... I have more and more been finding myself irritated with the ebiking in town. It does seem like people are in over their heads and being foolish with the speed of them....so yeah, I'm starting to become annoyed with the whole thing. I can really see how those same kind of idiots could be just blazing up downhill trails or any number of ways they could cunt everything up. I get it.

I also rode a nice towny one the other day, just a little bit, in town....sweet fancy moses, I'd straight ride the wheels off one of those if I could afford the buy-in. It is a moped, too much for bikey situations, too little for car-ey situations. It's a real conundrum.

**toast2266** · 09-15-2018, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by Mustonen

You think? Is it really all about the knee jerk reaction that if you didn’t get there out of your own sweat and good health you don’t deserve to be there?

In terms of trail impact and noise (and other) pollution, ebikes are a lot more similar to mountain bikes than mopeds and dirt bikes. It’s disingenuous to equate them. Unless we’re really just talking about elitism.... us worthy few.....

Like I said, I know nothing. But I don’t buy that this is the zero sum game you’re making it out to be, and if it actually is, then I can better sympathize with the other side’s point.

There is a large contingency of people that dislike anything with two wheels that goes into the forest. And while they dislike mountain bikes, they fucking hate dirt bikes. Blurring the line between mountain bikes and dirt bikes is terrible for mtb access. Why? Because those two wheeled haters are well organized, well funded, and they wrote the laws and regulations regarding trail access issues. It's going to take a generational shift for that to change, and I'm not willing to give up even more trail access just because some guy wants to get to the top of the climb easier.

Personally, I don't really give a shit if people ride ebikes as long as they stick to moto legal trails. I view them kind of like razor scooters: I think most of the people that ride them are goobers, but whatever, they're having fun. But they're not mountain bikes, and calling them mountain bikes jeopardizes access for everyone.