Electric Bike Thread

[Name Redacted]

Haha the first point is a blanket statement and while it might be true in some areas it isn’t true over all in Europe. Ebike sales have increased in all age groups and take up close to 50% of sales up from single digits only a year or two previous. Bike sales overall(e and reg) are up 11% due in large part to enike sales. Most ebikes sales are from an lbs as well , rather than online, as people want to have service for them. They go thru brake pads, tires and rims quicker with added weight and very. A lot of younger riders getting into mtb are choosing ebikes in England, France, Italy and other countries. A lot of trail systems they are now finding a close to even split. Trails are shared. If you follow the EWS on vitalmtb you’ll see the media squids preriding all the courses on ebikes. The courses are all across Europe and cover large sections of trails around towns(one 2day race they’re in/out of two countries). There is a lot of acceptance for ebikes in urp in comparison to NA. There’s still the haters that love to get their panties in a bunch but I’m not seeing any wide spread opposition in the countless recent vids from a wide range of channels. Ebike specific bike stores are spreading. The recent European bike show was also split close to 50/50 ebikes to regular bikes, where in the past all the reg bikes were front and Center of the displays with a token ebike at the back to show the companies tech and what they’re working on.
Also it remains to be seen how legislation gets decided and where it will have an impact. Communities and cyclists are invested in it and I can’t see an outright ban. Quite the opposite, I’ve been seeing mention of expanding trail systems and participation
I have seen those tires swalbe has. Pic was from the show. A lot of downhillers will be after them because they’re bike tires, that go on bike rims. They’re a little burliest for the extra 10ish lbs (a lot of downhillers are keen on that since we lost the old intense tires that were the same size and weight). They’re not as ramped to roll as fast but not much of a stretch from current dh tire options. My old intense wc 2.7 were probably heavier. It was impossible to bend them in half when they were new, before putting them on a rim. Zero flats with tubes at 18psi front and 19psi rear. Awesome for steep gnarly trails. The odd time I’d rip a valve stem I could ride down the mountain at 50-60% without air. Those swalbe’s probably will be wimpier
We’re seeing both more power and less power sustems. Longer bigger battery systems as well as smaller lighter battery systems. I’m more interested in the lighter system with less power and carry an extra battery. The fazua motor looks promising.
I’ve put up vids throughout this thread basically showing all my statements usually relating to other people’s posts that aren’t based on fact. Maybe you have some links or vids of these issues your putting forth. I’d be interested in checking them out unlike the haters in here that don’t want to see fact based info that may ruin their narrative

Have you ever heard of a paragraph motherfucker? I ain't reading that shit!

[rideit]

Once again, we don't even have universal health care.
Europe is NOT a model for us legislation, and never will be.

[TahoeJ]

Once again, we don't even have universal health care.
Europe is NOT a model for us legislation, and never will be.

This. I mean, seriously. Think about how long it took for the US to stop drinking shit coffee.

[rideit]

Remember when Europe is where you went for tasty beer?

[Vt-Freeheel]

50 thou a year, buys a lot of beer!

[grinch]

Have you ever heard of a paragraph motherfucker? I ain't reading that shit!

Hater. I put it in 5 paragraphs. Can’t you read dumbass

[grinch]

Yet somehow downhill bikes gained acceptance. Must’ve been an anomaly. I’m sure it was all luck

[MultiVerse]

I put it in 5 paragraphs.

My original response was in part about conflating e-commuting numbers with e-MTB numbers. The point being, "overwhelming established facts in other countries" is a blanket statement that may or may not apply to recreational use in Europe depending on location. Or, what is "true in some areas it isn’t true over all in Europe." And, what is happening in Europe doesn't necessarily apply in North America.

You might end up being right about some of these things in the future but that doesn't make them "facts" in the present. Trail access in North America is different than in Europe. More importantly, there is really no momentum right now for broad eMTB access in North America. In other words, a bunch of early adopters excited about eMTBs is not the same thing as majority acceptance and access. In the bike industry, for every success there's also a dud, the plural of anecdote is not data, and nobody knows how this will all shake out after the honeymoon phase.



Anyway, you asked for links on some the other issues:

In Europe, manufacturers are already pushing to change regulations so that they can exceed the 25 km/h – 0.25 kW limits. Industry and dealer associations want the 0.25 kW motor output limit to disappear.


European Commission demands insurance for all ebikes.

[grinch]

Thanks for that. It sounds like they’re nailing it down and generally there’s a push back on the companies pushing for more power in the bikes. Makes sense they should have insurance and regulations for components to be safe at the added speed.
They don’t go into trail use too much. Most of that is commuting. Looks like the current off-road/trail use regulations will stand. 25km seems to be standard everywhere(Europe, Japan, New Zealand). I think New Zealand has moved it up slightly to 30km. That’s in boost mode. Boost mode is the highest and limits your battery a fair bit. Most cases boost would be used on steeps for power and you wouldn’t be able to reach max speeds. Most of the time, for an average ride, the assist will be set in the eco and mid range settings off-road to conserve battery power for the ride.
As I said in last post, I’m more interested in the even lower powered ones. Non boost. Most of the boost ones have 5 settings from eco to boost. The fazua motor has 3 settings, no boost and 35-39lb fs bikes. At the same time it can just be a regular bike(without the motor/battery) or you can pedal past the motor speed on downhills without e motor resistance(most likely on pavement downhills)
It’s nice to see they’re taking a realistic approach. I’d be down with saving gas $ and commuting on one. Should be able to pay it off fairly quick at Canadian gas prices atm.

[Bunion 2020]

Yet somehow downhill bikes gained acceptance. Must’ve been an anomaly. I’m sure it was all luck

Or maybe it was because they are actually Bicycles.

[JerseyDave]

What do you have to say to the folks who spent the last 30 years lobbying, and building miles and miles of MTB trail that you now can take advantage of without putting in the effort they did? Some of those folks can now only really ride e-bikes due to age, injuries, other comittments, but you are saying you have more of a right to the trails they lobbied for and built than they do because they need a bit of help from their bike? Them riding their e-bike doesnt affect you in the slightest (no sound, no egregious speed difference, no undue thrashing of the trails.. that they built anyways). Doesn't sound very fair, or the right way to go about things, IMO.

Hi. I'm a trail builder. Have been for 20 years. When I get too old to ride, I hope I can just go fishing and be happy. Not change the rules so as to remain in denial about my mortality.

I'm not into blanket banning. Some trails could be available to motorized vehicles, but that should come with an increased level of support from the new user group. ALL trails should not suddenly be open to this new, motorized form of trail riding.

[alias_rice]

I just got this text from a buddy that made me think of this thread.

“So I’m riding up Mueller on Monday night and I keep hearing a referee whistle blowing on the trail behind me. almost constantly. Annoying as fuck but whatever. Next thing I know mr whistle is behind me and wanting to pass. The fuck is on an ebike. He can constantly blow his whistle while passing me because he isn’t breathing hard. I’m at peace with getting passed by ebikes but then this guys comes along. Never have I wanted to shove a whistle down someone’s throat with malice. Worthless fuck.”

[Shredhead]

70% of residents polled in the Roaring Fork Valley, where in favor of Class 1's being allowed on MUT's. We also have tons of skl area and old mine service roads.
We have a great MUT trail system, lot's of employee housing and parking/traffic is just getting worse. I think ebikes can make a significant difference for commuters here.
Maybe I'm looking at it with rose colored glasses, but there just doesn't seem to be much conflict here.

I've ridden MTB's for 40 years, the last 30 of which have been 350+ days a year. I'm not going to give it up easily.

[MultiVerse]

70% of residents polled in the Roaring Fork Valley, where in favor of Class 1's being allowed on MUT's. We also have tons of skl area and old mine service roads.
We have a great MUT trail system, lot's of employee housing and parking/traffic is just getting worse. I think ebikes can make a significant difference for commuters here.
Maybe I'm looking at it with rose colored glasses, but there just doesn't seem to be much conflict here.

Worth mentioning that the Roaring Fork Valley survey results are for paved MUT trails. I don't think anyone has said they dislike ebikes for commuting. The issue is non-motorized dirt singletrack.

In Park City, UT ebikes are allowed on wide/dirt/paved MUT trails but they are banned on dirt singletrack. Park City even has the U.S.’s first fully electric bike share.

[Name Redacted]

Just rode 10 miles of a 20 mile loop on a MUT dirt singletrack. Only motorcycle I saw was a Forest Service ranger. Actually, only saw 2 other bikers the whole time too.

[Dantheman]

Yeah, you are so genuinely concerned about these people running out of battery power. You really care if they get a flat, sure. You so sincerely worry they might hit their heads. What a fucking joke.

Quite the contrary. I don't give a fuck if any of those things happen to them. I see it as an inevitability and can't wait to point and laugh when it happens. SAR personnel probably don't find that inevitability quite so humorous, though.

I just got this text from a buddy that made me think of this thread.

“So I’m riding up Mueller on Monday night and I keep hearing a referee whistle blowing on the trail behind me. almost constantly. Annoying as fuck but whatever. Next thing I know mr whistle is behind me and wanting to pass. The fuck is on an ebike. He can constantly blow his whistle while passing me because he isn’t breathing hard. I’m at peace with getting passed by ebikes but then this guys comes along. Never have I wanted to shove a whistle down someone’s throat with malice. Worthless fuck.”

Jesus, what a fucking prick. Ebike or no, blowing a god damn referee whistle at people makes you a dickhead. I'd be tempted to not let him by on principle.

[californiagrown]

Jesus, what a fucking prick. Ebike or no, blowing a god damn referee whistle at people makes you a dickhead. I'd be tempted to not let him by on principle.

The question remains to be answered. Do e-bikes make a person into a dickhead, or do e-bikes just attract people who were dickheads already? Kinda like how power and fame can corrupt nice normal people, or maybe they were just not nice normal people to begin with?

[AdironRider]

It seems they have attracted mostly asshole entitled parents in Jackson. I almost got taken out by one crossing the street the other day. Lady is cruising at like 25 in the wrong lane (going against traffic), almost clips me in a sidewalk, then has the gall to say I almost resulted in her kids getting hurt (she had two riding on little seats over the back tire).

I was to dumbfounded to even manage a reply.

[toast2266]

The question remains to be answered. Do e-bikes make a person into a dickhead, or do e-bikes just attract people who were dickheads already? Kinda like how power and fame can corrupt nice normal people, or maybe they were just not nice normal people to begin with?

They attract people who wouldn't otherwise be riding a bike, and thus are oblivious to established norms and courtesies that exist within the biking population.

It's a problem for the moment, but the real question is when (or if) they'll figure these things out.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[teledad]

Noticed that Mammoth is allowing Class 1 e-bikes now (at least in the park, not sure about the town trails). Interesting since it means you could get a cheap pedal pass and still ride most of the downhill trails (except the handful that go from the top). Probably thinking the revenue from e-bike rentals is going to exceed any loss from cheapskates with their own bikes.

https://www.mammothmountain.com/summ...e-park/e-bikes

[grinch]

Morning fellow grinches, just wanted to update . Cancelled the order on the cube. Not sure when they’ll be in stock. Things are selling like hot cakes. Decided for more travel anyway. 19 mondraker on order. Going to stay with a medium(ultra looong) and swap a 180 fork on it. Soooo many corners smashed. Keep smiling . Happy trails #namastemf

[gravitylover]

grinch - If you want long travel and can wait just a little bit longer you'll be able to get a Canadian bike rather than from some weird Eurozone place. Norco has a 150/160 Sight VLT on the way at 3 price points. The Fat-E from them ought to be available in time for this winter.

[rod9301]

They attract people who wouldn't otherwise be riding a bike, and thus are oblivious to established norms and courtesies that exist within the biking population.

It's a problem for the moment, but the real question is when (or if) they'll figure these things out.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

This is so wrong. It may attract these people too, but, in Europe at least, it attracts serious mountain bikes who simply want to ride downhill more.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using TGR Forums mobile app

[grinch]

grinch - If you want long travel and can wait just a little bit longer you'll be able to get a Canadian bike rather than from some weird Eurozone place. Norco has a 150/160 Sight VLT on the way at 3 price points. The Fat-E from them ought to be available in time for this winter.

Thanks. I’ve been meaning to check on norco to see what they’ve got on deck. I bet it’ll be sweet . Like there bikes and fit. High single pivot norco truax reintroduced as an ebike would be the shit. Thor line up looks so dialed the last few years. Price scares me off a bit though
I keep going back and looking at the Commencal. Nice numbers and 4000 usd(5600? Cad)for a well speced ebike (last yrs stock) is mighty tempting

[Sirshredalot]

They attract people who wouldn't otherwise be riding a bike, and thus are oblivious to established norms and courtesies that exist within the biking population.

It's a problem for the moment, but the real question is when (or if) they'll figure these things out.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

I'm sure they'll exhibit all the courtesy and wilderness ethic that we are used to from them when they are driving their Polaris Razor ATVs.