Electric Bike Thread

[californiagrown]

Argument 2: "ebikes alllow the elderly and infirm to ride when they'd otherwise be confined to the couch!"

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Ebikes allow older/beat up folks an extra 5- 10 years of riding after they would have had to quit riding a normal MTB. Only looking at extremes and exceptions doesn't help the conversation.

[plugboots]

Same shit different day


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[toast2266]

Ebikes allow older/beat up folks an extra 5- 10 years of riding after they would have had to quit riding a normal MTB. Only looking at extremes and exceptions doesn't help the conversation.

Soooo... you still don't see how your arguments conflict with themselves. got it.

[theetruscan]

...So does an e-bike really make the critical difference for them? I'd love to see the injured and infirm have a chance to ride and if an e-bike gets them out there, great...

I've been seeing a handful of these stories lately. They're heartwarming. Two that come to mind:
Rider with an SCI built out an e-bike version of a SC V-10 with a sitski seat. Check pinkbike. I also posted it in thread earlier before I realized this thread was just a bunch of NIMBYs raging.
Rider with a partial quad out riding with buddies on a pivot shuttle. Still limited, able to ride much more (further and more varied) than before. Think a youtube review on loam wolf.

[californiagrown]

Soooo... you still don't see how your arguments conflict with themselves. got it.

Please explain how they conflict. An older rider extending their rideable years by a few years will not have much of an impact... especially because that rider will likely not be riding very often at that point.

[skysos]

Can't wait until they actually start fining you guys.

Tickets issued go on your DMV file and count as points for insurance

I don't think they are interested in fining people. Why would they when there are no actual conflicts?

I don't think that is correct about DMV. It's not a motor vehicle according to California:

"Section 24016 of the Vehicle Code: A person operating an electric bicycle is not subject to the provisions of this code relating to financial responsibility, driver’s licenses, registration, and license plate requirements, and an electric bicycle is not a motor vehicle."

[californiagrown]

I don't think they are interested in fining people. Why would they when there are no actual conflicts?

because people in today's society find fun and self worth in being recreationally offended, instead of focusing on recreating in the traditional sense of the word.

[TahoeJ]

What do you have to say to the folks who spent the last 30 years lobbying, and building miles and miles of MTB trail that you now can take advantage of without putting in the effort they did? Some of those folks can now only really ride e-bikes due to age, injuries, other comittments, but you are saying you have more of a right to the trails they lobbied for and built than they do because they need a bit of help from their bike? Them riding their e-bike doesnt affect you in the slightest (no sound, no egregious speed difference, no undue thrashing of the trails.. that they built anyways). Doesn't sound very fair, or the right way to go about things, IMO.

I'm gonna say most of those guys are still out riding on regular bikes, or not riding at all because whatever ails them wouldn't make an e-bike much of an option either.

[Redsmurfer]

"code relating to financial responsibility, driver’s licenses, registration, and license plate requirements, and an electric bicycle is not a motor vehicle."

illegal operation of a vehicle on trails or areas where it is prohibited is recorded under your drivers license number. The first thing they will ask you for is your drivers license, it is moving violation just like you can get a ticket for riding under the influence. Then they will run your license through the data base checking for outstanding warrants, then issue you a summons to appear in court. Also note that statue does not say anything about insurance rate impacts. Can not wait until you get your first $375 ticket and discover you have traffic school in your future.

keep telling yourself its all cool, i for one think the best way to deal with this is for MTB'ers to have solidarity against ebike access until ebikers get enough influence to change it.

[mcski]

Skysos ,
Where the heck is this well known 30 miles of single track in the Bay Area? I live in sf and can't think of anything you could piece together nearby nearly that length.

I'm sure you got a lot of interest from others. It's still a novelty. But people end up wrecking everything. Once there are many, I think it will be a different story w the trail Nazis out there.

[Dantheman]

Am I the only one who desperately wants creaky and rog back for this discussion? I imagine rog would have some choice words regarding "too gnarly for a hardtail" trails.

Yeti is bitter. Bitterness sucks the life and happiness out of you...

I like Yeti a lot too, but human-powered uphill travel has always been an issue for him. A few years back when Solitude was trying to expand into Silver Fork he was using the elitism argument to argue for the expansion of the ski area. In his mind, $100/day for lift tickets was less elitist than a one-time investment of a few hundred bucks for avy gear that would allow you to ski there for free for the rest of your life.

What if I e-bike up a resort and ride their DH trails for free? Seems like they'd have to regular that pretty soon, or just make money off bike rentals.

All the bike parks around here couldn't give less of shit if you want to pedal for laps.

Fuck eBikes I’m getting one of these:

I'm sure(?) they've sealed the ever-living shit out of that thing, but if water got in and shorted the battery out it would be a sight to see.

Who ever said that every human is entitled to every experience in the world. I want to rock climb like 5.12 grade expert, but I want to go 20 times a year. Is that reasonable? I want to ski big mtn lines and paddle grade 5 like the icons of the sport. Where is my E-help? I'm entitled to those experiences! I'M A CONSUMER DAMN IT!!!!
'Merica. ?

This pretty on point.

I'm gonna say most of those guys are still out riding on regular bikes, or not riding at all because whatever ails them wouldn't make an e-bike much of an option either.

Or, they all knew that one day like everyone else they'd be old and broken and wouldn't be able to ride that stuff any more.

[rideit]

"code relating to financial responsibility, driver’s licenses, registration, and license plate requirements, and an electric bicycle is not a motor vehicle."[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#333333]illegal operation of a vehicle on trails or areas where it is prohibited is recorded under your drivers license number. The first thing they will ask you for is your drivers license, it is moving violation just like you can get a ticket for riding under the influence. Then they will run your license through the data base checking for outstanding warrants, then issue you a summons to appear in court. Also note that statue does not say anything about insurance rate impacts. Can not wait until you get your first $375 ticket and discover you have traffic school in your future.

keep telling yourself its all cool, i for one think the best way to deal with this is for MTB'ers to have solidarity against ebike access until ebikers get enough influence to change it.

fixed

[GoldMember]

I'm gonna say most of those guys are still out riding on regular bikes, or not riding at all because whatever ails them wouldn't make an e-bike much of an option either.

Or, they all knew that one day like everyone else they'd be old and broken and wouldn't be able to ride that stuff any more.

Or they simply lost interest and moved on to other things. I'm one of the 30+ year riders who used to ride with a good group on a pretty regular basis. I more or less quit riding about 15 years ago and only started getting back into it 3 years ago, as an old guy. I ride by myself. The group I used to ride with have all quit riding or I've completely lost track of them and don't have current friends that ride. I'm okay with that as I do it primarily for the exercise and want to ride my own pace and where/when I want to ride. Most of the guys in my age group that I rode with are physically fine, relatively speaking but just don't want to do the same things that we did when we were in our twenties. I don't see e-bikes changing that for them, either. They've moved on; families, jobs, grandkids, etc.

[jono]

I've been seeing a handful of these stories lately. They're heartwarming. Two that come to mind:
Rider with an SCI built out an e-bike version of a SC V-10 with a sitski seat. Check pinkbike. I also posted it in thread earlier before I realized this thread was just a bunch of NIMBYs raging.
Rider with a partial quad out riding with buddies on a pivot shuttle. Still limited, able to ride much more (further and more varied) than before. Think a youtube review on loam wolf.

I've been in a similar situation myself. Briefly but very meaningfully. Your original mention in here reminded me of it and I'm all in on the idea that e-bikes (and regular bikes) should be allowed to be used as adaptive equipment for those whose abilities allow them to do so. It's a small fraction of possible riders, but that's exactly why they should be accomodated: how much harm can they do, and why should they not be afforded whatever opportunity possible? It's similar to the argument for bikes on certain trails in designated wilderness: when the time and energy commitment is high enough to keep all but a few people from doing it those few should have the opportunity. They hurt nothing.

This is all pretty different from saying e-bikes = bikes, and should be allowed on all bike trails, obviously.

[Canada1]

Son to me “why don’t you tell those EBikers they aren’T allowed on these non motorized trails?” Me “I’m trying not to be the guy that cares about the rules. When I tell people there doing something wrong, they generally respond angrily, which makes me angry.”

There are a lot of e bikes on non motorized trails around here. I’m sure there are going to be a lot more. The number of tourists renting them is amazing.

[jono]

There are a number of trails in my area which would be ideal for the older ex MTBer with a new hip, and some fused vertebrae. Long smooth single track climb, and a long smooth single track descent back down. And guess what. Those guys "came of age" in the era of rogue trails and breaking the law on trails, so they are already out there doing this, not giving much of a damn what you or i think about it.

By the same token should we ban new bikes, which are machines that have crazy cool space age technology,on those janky techy 30 year old trails because they have made those trails easy enough for the average joe to ride them? Isnt the "access only through experience and hard work to keep users down" argument a big one in this thread?

The trails you mention should be (and probably are) open to e-bikes. The best way to secure that access if it's not open already is to advocate with the land managers for it. Trying to get all access to all bike trails doesn't really suit the needs of that group anyway and threatens others' access.

The difference between e-bikes and unobtainium bikes is that no matter the investment a human powered machine can never get more power than the human can provide and can only get just so light/efficient. Even if it were 10 pounds, it's not going to carry you up the hill. OTOH the e-biker who wants to go faster/farther, even class 1, just needs more (or spare) batteries and a high power setting on the assist level. I bet skysos owns a second battery within the year. It's cheaper than training. And unfortunately, it's unlimited.

[Redsmurfer]

Canada1 how is park city dealing with this issue. Seems if tourist are in to it, $$$ speaks. Are locals worried or pissed? just curious

[rod9301]

I think this discussion is really not needed.

Look at Europe and you see what's going to happen here in two years.
By that time there will be so many e mountain bikes that the land managers will accept them as fait accompli.

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[bagtagley]

Europe != United states when it comes to trail and land access. It's really not an apt comparison.

[Dantheman]

It's also a bit like global warming denialism. If we're wrong, it's no big deal long-term. If he's wrong we're all fucked.

[Canada1]

I can’t speak for the community. For me, if they follow trail etiquette, I’m okay. The lady that yelled at my nine year old daughter to get out of her way when my daughter had the right of way on an uphill just as easily could have been on a bike. My oldest thinks they cause trail damage. I have zero evidence of that. In the interim, the local shops are making money and a lot of families are getting a chance to remember how fun bikes are.

[muted]

I think this discussion is really not needed.

Look at Europe and you see what's going to happen here in two years.
By that time there will be so many e mountain bikes that the land managers will accept them as fait accompli.

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Europe is poor comparison, what happens there will not drive much over here. Culture and land policies/ownership/management are way different.

[alias_rice]

Am I the only one who desperately wants creaky and rog back for this discussion? I imagine rog would have some choice words regarding "too gnarly for a hardtail" trails.


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Yeah, but Rog would support the proud anti helmet contingent if ebikers we all keep seeing.

[TahoeJ]

Ebike encounter this morning. Riding up a fire road, taking it slow with my wife who is new to MTB. Guy goes by on an ebike and very smugly says, “Don’t worry, it’s not much further, you’ll make it.”

My wife shoots me a look, like, ok. So I pedal ahead and pass the overweight douche and say “hey look, no motor.”

If you’re gonna ride one of those, don’t act like you’re some kind of stud or pretend you’re on a regular bike, it’s not going to help people’s opinions towards them.

[plugboots]

Wrong forum.

What do douche bag ebikers read?


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