Electric Bike Thread

[grinch]

Ebikes will be ubiquitous so the rules will change.

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Seems to be the case in urp/jolly ol England

[buttahflake]

I predict that, in the U.S., ebikes will be no more ubiquitous than fat bikes. I.e., a fad that is enjoyed by some but ultimately never gains the mainstream success that many predicted.


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No way, guy. Ebikes come in all flavors. The commuter market alone is going to eclipse Fat bikes, in the next year or two. I think we’re about to see a huge uptick in cycling, because of ebikes.

Future so bright

[Bunion 2020]

I think this got lost in the back-and-forth. Pretty awesome. One of the local land managers allows ebikes for those with mobility disabilities (otherwise they're banned). I'm not an ebike fan but that's a policy I can support.

x2 because there is an actual decision made by the local land manager, not by whoever decides that they can do what they want.

Very similar to the STC bill on Wilderness areas.

Meant to say to police why regulations against ebikes.

Same as policing illegal trails.

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There is an edit function JONG.

[Vt-Freeheel]

No way, guy. Ebikes come in all flavors. The commuter market alone is going to eclipse Fat bikes, in the next year or two. I think we’re about to see a huge uptick in cycling, because of ebikes.

Future so bright

Yeah, fat bikes are a tiny niche market right now. I did see an e-fat 4 years ago come up around a steep corner on a paved road at a house I was working on. Had to be going 15mph, slight buzz heard over the awful fatbike tire thrumming.
Are e-fats to be called snowmobiles now? Just want to keep up on the terminology of hate.

[smartyiak]

No way, guy. Ebikes come in all flavors. The commuter market alone is going to eclipse Fat bikes, in the next year or two. I think we’re about to see a huge uptick in cycling, because of ebikes.

Future so bright

This...but I do think e-MTBs will remain somewhat of a niche. Every hipster and oldster in NYC, SF, DC, and every major city with residency will have them and so will cities places with large numbers of paths (like Madison) ...commuter ebikes will be everywhere.

But I think cost will be a limiting factor for purpose built e-bikes, i.e. eMTBs and eRoadbikes. Most people aren't paying >$2K for a regular mtb or road bike...they're surely not paying $4-5K for an e-version of it...and that's the lower end ones.

[rideit]

How do you come out with this?

Ebikes will be ubiquitous so the rules will change.

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Because history.
In the US, the hiking/equestrian/wilderness lobbies are far more powerful than the bike lobbies, and that's not changing anytime soon.

[doebedoe]

I really wish that every e-bike came with a bell and required the rider to know how to use it.

I commute down a busy-in-the-summer MUP most mornings. I can hear and adjust lane position to the far right edge for even the swiftest riding roadies. Ebikes have showed up in force this summer, passing silently at 20mph with no warning on a regular basis.

Yes, its an asshole on a bike, not the bike that's an asshole. But the bike makes it easier to be an asshole.

[TahoeBC]

https://sierratrails.org/riding-downieville-on-ebikes/

[Bunion 2020]

But I think cost will be a limiting factor for purpose built e-bikes, i.e. eMTBs and eRoadbikes. Most people aren't paying >$2K for a regular mtb or road bike...they're surely not paying $4-5K for an e-version of it...and that's the lower end ones.

Hey look! A voice of reason.....

Thanks for the link TahoeBC.

[californiagrown]

But I think cost will be a limiting factor for purpose built e-bikes, i.e. eMTBs and eRoadbikes. Most people aren't paying >$2K for a regular mtb or road bike...they're surely not paying $4-5K for an e-version of it...and that's the lower end ones.

Too true. Like i said before, people freak out when i tell them that $2k is a good number to budget for an entry level MTB. I highly doubt many beginners and people in general will be into bikes costing 2 to 3 times that much. Hell, i ride MTB 2-3 times per week and i wouldnt think of ever paying more than $3k for a bike (not MSRP of course, but through a bro hookup or a used bike).

But every group needs its enemy, whether real or imagined, and e-MTBs are MTBs enemy right now.

[toast2266]

No way, guy. Ebikes come in all flavors. The commuter market alone is going to eclipse Fat bikes, in the next year or two. I think we’re about to see a huge uptick in cycling, because of ebikes.

Future so bright

I'll revise my prediction because I agree that ebikes will be pretty big for the commuter market. I was really just talking about off road ebikes.

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[Dantheman]

Son to me “why don’t you tell those EBikers they aren’T allowed on these non motorized trails?” Me “I’m trying not to be the guy that cares about the rules. When I tell people there doing something wrong, they generally respond angrily, which makes me angry.

You're right. I've changed my mind, rather than chastising them my response will be to say in the happiest, most sincere tone possible, "Sick moped!"

And it will be sincere, since they are sick mopeds. Most people will probably just smile and say thanks. For those who try to insist it's not a moped, it's going to be a hoot asking, again in the most sincere tone possible, "But, it has a motor, right? And it has pedals? So, how's it not a moped?" No judgement, just genuinely confused, like a Texan asking for directions to the stunt ditch.

[bagtagley]

But every group needs its enemy, whether real or imagined, and e-MTBs are MTBs enemy right now.

That's pretty funny. They're barely part of the discussion, at least around here and among circles that I work and communicate with. The agenda and "enemies" are the same as they have been for decades. eMTBs are a side-note. Mountain bikers aren't making the decisions to ban eMTBs, it's land managers. And, they're concerned enough that they're preemptively banning them on trails all over the country.

[reckless toboggan]

https://sierratrails.org/riding-downieville-on-ebikes/

The goal was to go on a couple big rides, better understanding ebikes and how they can fit into the Lost Sierra multi-use trails picture.

Because many trails in the Downieville region are motorized legal, unlike other mountain bike destinations like Moab that have “no ebikes” signs everywhere, the Lost Sierra does not have any conflicts or restrictions on ebike use.

Good for them. Riding eMopeds responsibly and legally on wilderness trails that are designated motorized. That's an excellent use case for eMopeds and their riders.

[toast2266]

That's pretty funny. They're barely part of the discussion, at least around here and among circles that I work and communicate with. The agenda and "enemies" are the same as they have been for decades. eMTBs are a side-note. Mountain bikers aren't making the decisions to ban eMTBs, it's land managers. And, they're concerned enough that they're preemptively banning them on trails all over the country.

Same here. Although the land managers have expressed concern about them.

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[bagtagley]

Scooter plates have a big red "MOPED" along the bottom here, which I think is funny cause my brain processes it the same as "doped". It's like they're victims of mopery that have been tagged.

[MultiVerse]

They’re coming and laws will adapt(to answer your narrative). It seems people would rather look for the negatives despite the overwhelming established facts in other countries

It's not so cut and dry even in other countries. Pedelecs (the EU term) are popular for commuting in a place where bike commuting is already popular but for recreation the usage is kind of like it is here: a lot of old folks puttering around. That actually helps ebike proponents in North America because if people were getting rawdy on ebikes then established users would push even harder to ban them on trails. It's also why all the snowboard vs skier comparisons in this thread are comical when so much of the ebike marketing is so similar to Viagra marketing.

Where the argument breaks down is the vast difference in trail access in North America compared with Europe. Here, trail decisions have almost always been made by the local community along with the local land managers. The reality is motorized off-road users have been consistently losing access for decades nearly in proportion with population growth.

It’s the same fkn sport, same tires,same suspension same brakes.

In Europe, manufacturers are already pushing to change regulations so that they can exceed the 25 km/h – 0.25 kW limits.

Also in Europe, there's pending legislation requiring compulsory third party motor insurance for ebikes.

And Schwalbe has introduced moto-style eMTB tires with a wider rear tire, instead of a wider front, because it's not quite the same sport.

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[Vt-Freeheel]

Now that Schwalbe has clarified things, I can see the difference.

[jono]

Same here. Although the land managers have expressed concern about them.

If all the people in this thread who think access is a non-issue were involved enough to know better access might actually be a non-issue.

E-bikes could improve things that way, but it will be harder than complaining on the internet. For example, good job in Downieville getting the land managers and industry shills out together. How is it those guys haven't been out on dozens of rides before now?

[XXX-er]

Some pretty good points mr MV from the landuse perspective

I used to ride dirt bikes almost 45 yars ago around SFU in Vancover, unmuffled expansion chambers were fairly common but now days you would not see a motor cycle and I have heard of mtn bike access issues.

Same with way up narth its about motor vs non motor both summer and winter use, the motor heads are having access issues both for summer and winter use, their preferred method of dealing is to stick their heads in the sand/be reactionary and refuse to deal even tho the govy types are trying to help them/trying to give them money cuz they want to setup a land use plan but the motor heads think they should be able to go where they want like they always have

I know all the govy types from skiing/biking/ drinking beer and as one of them sez " they should deal and get their slice of the pie before the gov gives it to another stake holder " just like when yer brother ate yer pice of cake outa the fridge eh

there are a way more motors out there than non-motors and still the BC is closing down for them, if you think having lots of electric bikes is gona open up the non-motorised trails I would have to disagree based on what I have seen in patterns of landuse

as of yet there are not issues up here with e-bikes but thats only cuz there are no crowd s YET


I asked a CO that I roomed with for a bit (chill guy ) what was his policy on improper landuse, running a motor in the park he said well if you are not from around here and maybe you could prove you got lost i will probably let it pass but if you are local ... you r gona get a ticket

[BFD]

When I first started following this thread I had no real opinion on ebikes. I do not think I have ever seen one. My original opinion was if they are silent omit no odor and don't tear up the trails worse than other bikes, what is the problem. I now see the problem. Like the entire bike industry they will continue to evolve into a more powerful specialized machine. The motor will be the focus. I think MultiVerse's post was good as it pointed this out with the increased speed limits and specialized tires. pretty soon mountain biking will be like heli skiing in Ak. A whole bunch of rich people who would not even be out there if not for the motor.

[mmmm...pow!]

Good for them. Riding eMopeds responsibly and legally on wilderness trails that are designated motorized. That's an excellent use case for eMopeds and their riders.

Agree, that's an appropriate place for them. Most of those trails they were riding might see a handful of MTBs a week, if that. Interesting about the batteries, though. Seems like a pretty short ride for batteries to be dying. It's gonna suck for people that run out of juice with a big climb between them and the trailhead. Yeah, I'm sure the batteries will get better with time, but that will also enable people to get even further before the battery fizzles out.

[Dantheman]

Interesting about the batteries, though. Seems like a pretty short ride for batteries to be dying. It's gonna suck for people that run out of juice with a big climb between them and the trailhead. Yeah, I'm sure the batteries will get better with time, but that will also enable people to get even further before the battery fizzles out.

The author glossed over that part nicely. Seems like only a matter of time before SAR has to rescue someone who ventured too far and doesn't have the fitness and/or sufficient food or water to push their moped back to the trailhead.

[Name Redacted]

The author glossed over that part nicely. Seems like only a matter of time before SAR has to rescue someone who ventured too far and doesn't have the fitness and/or sufficient food or water to push their moped back to the trailhead.

I thought of that too, but couldn't you ditch the battery in the bushes and ride back home? Come back another day to retrieve it. Seems like a viable strategy, not that the guy who let the battery run out in the first place would be that smart though, or even physically able to ride without the assistance.

I wonder how they hold up in the weather. Rain, snow, cold, creek crossings etc. I was thinking about getting one for a commute in a mountain town.

[XXX-er]

I was thinking about getting one for a commute in a mountain town.

thats what you are suposed to do

not ride them on non motorized trails