Police Behaving Badly

[wyeaster]

that is an interesting application of mlk's quote. everything is different when white folks matter.

[jono]

that is an interesting application of mlk's quote. everything is different when white folks matter.

You don't seriously think that restricting a universal truth to narrow application is progress, do you? Nevermind. The point is that dividing people along racial lines in this topic damages minorities disproportionately. If you are determined to do that I have to wonder how committed you are to addressing the wrongs you cited.

[old goat]

yes they trip on everyone, but it is, in my opinion, deluded or dishonest to suggest that the cops and the legal system have inflicted equal or remotely comparable harm across all demographics or that now tha white folks are worried, it doesnt matter that they ignored or cheered black people being fucked for generations. there is nothing theoretical about racial disparities in law enforcement actions and outcomes. sure, the.police have the power to abuse anybody and have demonstrated that but the abuse has been focused on particular groups as an extension of the state, particularly since the end of slavery. in that case, systematic abuse by police was applauded by whites as an extension of their political will. one could easily argue that one of the main reasons we are where we are in an expanding police state is because economically/politically active white people didn't think they had anything to worry about because they weren't experiencing daily abuse and in many cases were advocating abuse as the means to an end.

first they came for that sketchy looking dark-skinned dude...

You are right of course. There are two separate but related issues--1) the behavior of many cops who use the authority of the badge to assert their power, bully citizens, abuse their rights, injure them, and kill them, and 2) the systemic discrimination of law enforcement against black people and other people of color. We can and should talk about both of them. The first is important for it's own sake but also because it gives insight into the psychopathology of many cops. When they abuse black people it is racism, but not purely racism. It is also that such officers feel they can get away with abusing black people because they are powerless. Most cops are careful not abuse people they perceive as having the power and connections.

[::: :::]

You don't seriously think that restricting a universal truth to narrow application is progress, do you? Nevermind. The point is that dividing people along racial lines in this topic damages minorities disproportionately. If you are determined to do that I have to wonder how committed you are to addressing the wrongs you cited.

Your idealism is noble, but unfortunately misguided and is exactly what diminishes the experiences of minorities. You may not understand the depth of this issue, but wyeaster is correct.

[wyeaster]

You don't seriously think that restricting a universal truth to narrow application is progress, do you? Nevermind. The point is that dividing people along racial lines in this topic damages minorities disproportionately. If you are determined to do that I have to wonder how committed you are to addressing the wrongs you cited.

i don't think coopting an idea once it matters to white people is progress either. but that is typical, especially of the whitey matters folks. why would acknowledging the fundamentally racist foundations of power and police state aggression domestically and internationally divide anybody? we're in a post-racial society, right? whitey can handle the truth. what divides is the refusal to acknowledge the fundamental truths, which is many people poc have been victims of this white police state as long as the state has existed and solving the problem -- a pipe dream -- is more inconvenient than just saying a police state is bad for everybody now that white people are upset by their own creation.

[4matic]

i don't think coopting an idea once it matters to white people is progress either. but that is typical, especially of the whitey matters folks. why would acknowledging the fundamentally racist foundations of power and police state aggression domestically and internationally divide anybody? we're in a post-racial society, right? whitey can handle the truth. what divides is the refusal to acknowledge the fundamental truths, which is many people poc have been victims of this white police state as long as the state has existed and solving the problem -- a pipe dream -- is more inconvenient than just saying a police state is bad for everybody now that white people are upset by their own creation.

Hitting the bong early. "pipe dream" lol. Were you out protesting on the Burnside Bridge yesterday? Didn't think so.

[jono]

i don't think coopting an idea once it matters to white people is progress either. but that is typical, especially of the whitey matters folks. why would acknowledging the fundamentally racist foundations of power and police state aggression domestically and internationally divide anybody? we're in a post-racial society, right? whitey can handle the truth. what divides is the refusal to acknowledge the fundamental truths, which is many people poc have been victims of this white police state as long as the state has existed and solving the problem -- a pipe dream -- is more inconvenient than just saying a police state is bad for everybody now that white people are upset by their own creation.

I think you're missing the point that started this: a deaf man gets shot in his driveway and no one cares. No one. It's not that white people suddenly care, it's that they still don't care. Or maybe that they don't know how to react; perhaps some people would react if they took advantage of the opportunity to learn from the BLM movement just how to do that (although they'd have to really get brave to endure all the internet heroes calling them out for co-opting the movement). That seems generous, though. I think a lot more people are only interested in what's trending.

The problem as it exists today is not primarily some deep-south cops headed out nightsticking the colored folk (although that surely exists somewhere) but the abuse of power over anyone who can be victimized. BLM has highlighted one area of that but the other major victim group is the mentally ill and no one says a thing on their behalf because there is no group in polite society who thinks "that could be me."

What becomes divisive is when you start trying to make it exclusively a black issue. WTF would there be a problem with "co-opting" a movement with the potential to achieve real change by adding more voices to it? Plenty of people have seen the problem of abuse of power (and its effects on anyone who makes an easy target, including black people) for decades. Claiming that such people should stay on the sidelines rather than get involved because that would risk co-opting the movement is racist in its results if not its intent.

[wyeaster]

i'm not missing the point because i'm not referring to that case. i did not say it was an exclusively black issue. i also did not say anybody should stay on the sidelines. your agenda is interfering with your reading.

[happytimefunbox]

THIS is what abuse looks like,

Im a mostly law abiding middle age white dude. I really want to kick that cops ass for being a supreme asshole. I think there should an option at the conclusion of the civil case when that dude sues the police and (hopefully) wins where there can be a couple of points deduction in the settlement for 5 minutes alone in a room where the law abiding citizen gets to have that scared asshole little man cop lick his boots. Fuck!

[wyeaster]

Hitting the bong early. "pipe dream" lol. Were you out protesting on the Burnside Bridge yesterday? Didn't think so.

typically irrelevant and unfunny. you're good at golf though.

[jono]

i'm not missing the point because i'm not referring to that case. i did not say it was an exclusively black issue. i also did not say anybody should stay on the sidelines. your agenda is interfering with your reading.

Your agenda has you imagining my agenda. I responded to comments in this thread and as such I am referring to that case so maybe we're just talking past each other here.

[mcski]

You are right of course. There are two separate but related issues--1) the behavior of many cops who use the authority of the badge to assert their power, bully citizens, abuse their rights, injure them, and kill them, and 2) the systemic discrimination of law enforcement against black people and other people of color. We can and should talk about both of them. The first is important for it's own sake but also because it gives insight into the psychopathology of many cops. When they abuse black people it is racism, but not purely racism. It is also that such officers feel they can get away with abusing black people because they are powerless. Most cops are careful not abuse people they perceive as having the power and connections.

QFT.

The underlying issue imo is when the court decided that the "perception of threat" - not an actual threat - was all that mattered for a cop to respond with force.

There was a sea change in training that came from that decision. The threat elimination 'training' impacts potentially everyone that comes into contact with the police (like the deaf guy), but for if you're not white, you run the risk of being perceived as a threat just because of the color of your skin.

[old goat]

i don't think coopting an idea once it matters to white people is progress either. but that is typical, especially of the whitey matters folks. why would acknowledging the fundamentally racist foundations of power and police state aggression domestically and internationally divide anybody? we're in a post-racial society, right? whitey can handle the truth. what divides is the refusal to acknowledge the fundamental truths, which is many people poc have been victims of this white police state as long as the state has existed and solving the problem -- a pipe dream -- is more inconvenient than just saying a police state is bad for everybody now that white people are upset by their own creation.

This is like saying, in a thread about global warming, why aren't you talking about GMO's, or the big banks, or police behaving badly. It's possible to be against one thing that's under discussion and still be against other, perhaps more important things as well. It is also possible for this thread to discuss general police misbehavior and racially directed police behavior as well. One does not exclude the other. Discussing one doesn't mean the other is less important.

[wyeaster]

it's not like saying that at all and my argument is for inclusion not against. i also didn't say anything was more important than anything else. diverse tgr does a lot of white man-splaining and issues that are intrinsic or inseparable are regularly ignored. carry on.

[digitaldeath]

"Why would ski patrol need a name?"

Seriously?. You are not interested in getting the persons name that was directly involved in the accident?

Oh, you know what?, she is only 15 years old. She gets to go home with out answering to anybody.

Your defense is that the car was a piece of crap? The guy I ran in to, his skis are shit, I'm out of here.

Stay young (irresponsible) forever/s.

Now that's funny stuff


What about medical help? Names and private property more important than physical well being?

Now you're thinking like a cop or a Stasi

[Kinnikinnick]

What if Keith Scott had a gun?
http://www.wsoctv.com/news/local/sou...cene/449405173

I"m sure that the police are fucked up and need to find more ways to de-escalate more situations rather than resolve with force, but in circumstances like this (if he did have a gun) or Michael Brown and the resulting reaction IMO undermine the legitimate narrative of police abuse of power in general and of minorities in particular. If a guy assaults a cop once and then comes back toward him it does not fit the narrative. If a guys has a gun and refuses to put it down and is shot it does not fit the narrative. And then when thousands of people go all kneejerk haywire rioting, protesting and making accusations it undermines the perceived legitimacy of claims of police abuse of power.

[digitaldeath]

Dude who is assaulting cops?

If people are, then its the abuse of power that has pushed them to that point

If he had a gun, let's see the video

Why would his family claim he has no gun?

[Kinnikinnick]

Dude who is assaulting cops?

If people are, then its the abuse of power that has pushed them to that point

If he had a gun, let's see the video

Why would his family claim he has no gun?

Michael Brown assaulted the police officer.

Why would they claim he didn't have a gun? People say false things all the time to obfuscate or maybe they just didn't know - so he wouldn't be shot, because they didn't know that he had a gun, in hopes that the police would leave him alone, who knows.

In the family released video the cops keep saying before the shooting " Drop the gun" Why would they say that if he didn't have one?

His wife kept saying "Keith, don't you do it, don't you do it. Keith, Keith, Keith, don't you do it." She knew something was up and that he was risking his life somehow, possibly by waving or showing a gun.


IF he had a gun than all this hoopla in Charlotte is misguided and counterproductive. I don't know either way, but when the community explodes and makes a big deal out of the injustice and then if they're wrong and the guy was waving a gun around, then in my mind and probably many others the whole protest is tainted.

Focus on the circumstances where the cops really did fuck up - ie Tulsa - and find a platform to suggest helpful changes - better training to reduce police minority prejudice, training for de-escalation, etc.

Aimless and at time misplaced outrage will NOT help the cause of reducing police abuse. In fact it'll make it worse as the cops will point to these circumstances and say among themselves - "see it doesn't matter what the truth is - they're just against us" = police circle the wagons rather than buy into systematic changes to improve the outcomes of police/public and police/minority encounters.

[digitaldeath]

We are against them. The lie and aren't accountable for their actions.

Michael brown assaulted the cop? Why? How do we know?


I'm just saying, we can't believe what they say. Andy Griffith maybe we could but not juiced up maniacs

[wyeaster]

why is this not in polyass?

[wyeaster]

Why are you guys cunting up this thread?

if it was in polyass there is a 98% chance i wouldn't.

[digitaldeath]

Cops are bad and dumb and lie and steal. Cops are people with exceptional privileges

We see them speeding and running red lights and playing with guns just because they can.

Give me admin power and I would ban many IP addresses.

Pretty simple

[TomCrac]

[digitaldeath]

The video is out. No gun. Guy was rolling or smoking weed and the cops murdered him for sport

Police start by harassing citizen in his suv, bothering nobody. A danger to nobody. Cops show up and endanger the whole community.

Here's the link


Check out @PDChina's Tweet: https://twitter.com/PDChina/status/7...913023488?s=09

[digitaldeath]

Hmmmm