First confirmed Measles death since 2003

[old goat]

Can't say much on the car wreck/domestic fight scene, but I'm very glad that all of our explosive diaper experiences are behind us. I do remember being amazed at times at the extent of those explosions. But this thread does have some similarities to the car wreck scenario in that it's tough to look away and you wish it weren't happening...

My cousin used to takes his babies to fancy restaurants and clean up the diaper explosion right on the table. He's a shrink.

[Dexter Rutecki]

My cousin used to takes his babies to fancy restaurants and clean up the diaper explosion right on the table. He's a shrink.

As if we need more evidence that shrinks are the screwiest among us. Only time I recall it being an issue in public for us was during a plane layover at the San Juan airport. 10 month old had a large explosion (basically up to her neck) while I was walking around with the older sister. Got back just in time to pass the wife running off to the bathroom with her cursing me for not being around...as if I could have done anything about it (but I did have good enough timing not to have to clean up that particular one myself). Good times so many years ago...hard to even believe now that they actually look and behave (most of the time) like actual humans.

[Dexter Rutecki]

And with the above this has gotten even more shitty...

[doughboyshredder]

Nice to see you still have a hard-on for me Dex.

[old goat]

Watch all the docs disappear when there's a "Code Brown" in a hospital. Like police and firefighters--nurses rush in when everyone else is running the other way.

[Adolf Allerbush]

Nice to see you still have a hard-on for me Dex.

Man, I'm not trying to be a dick here or anything, but I'm just trying to wrap my head around how you came to your view on vaccines. For me, I weigh the risk vs. reward of a given vaccine and it's always seemed to me to make most sense, from a logic standpoint, to get my kids vaccinated. Yeah, I guess I'm one of those sheeple that trust what the CDC is telling me and what the science of vaccines has demonstrated.

With your personal situation, lets say, hypothetically speaking of course, if your kid becomes very sick or dies because of your view on vaccines would that change your opinion?

[doughboyshredder]

Man, I'm not trying to be a dick here or anything, but I'm just trying to wrap my head around how you came to your view on vaccines. For me, I weigh the risk vs. reward of a given vaccine and it's always seemed to me to make most sense, from a logic standpoint, to get my kids vaccinated. Yeah, I guess I'm one of those sheeple that trust what the CDC is telling me and what the science of vaccines has demonstrated.

With your personal situation, lets say, hypothetically speaking of course, if your kid becomes very sick or dies because of your view on vaccines would that change your opinion?

I think you may have a complete misunderstanding of my position.

I never said that you shouldn't vaccinate, in fact I said that I am vaccinating my child.

The only thing I'm doing different than the CDC recommendation is the schedule that we are on. We chose the schedule that we did based on research of how other countries do it which is not nearly as aggressive as a schedule. For many reasons we feel that this is better for the health of the child.

As discussed earlier in this thread the US schedule is heavily based on cost and convenience. We don't mind going to our doc every other week so as to avoid multiple vaccinations at one time.

My entire reaction in this thread was to old goats comment that parents that chose not to vaccinate should be charged with child abuse. It was a hyperbolic b******* comment.

I do not support government mandated vaccinations. One person dies from measles and people lose their shit. It's ridiculous when thousands of people die from other things that could be prevented and nobody says shit.

[Adolf Allerbush]

I think you may have a complete misunderstanding of my position.

I never said that you shouldn't vaccinate, in fact I said that I am vaccinating my child.

The only thing I'm doing different than the CDC recommendation is the schedule that we are on. We chose the schedule that we did based on research of how other countries do it which is not nearly as aggressive as a schedule. For many reasons we feel that this is better for the health of the child.

As discussed earlier in this thread the US schedule is heavily based on cost and convenience. We don't mind going to our doc every other week so as to avoid multiple vaccinations at one time.

My entire reaction in this thread was to old goats comment that parents that chose not to vaccinate should be charged with child abuse. It was a hyperbolic b******* comment.

I do not support government mandated vaccinations. One person dies from measles and people lose their shit. It's ridiculous when thousands of people die from other things that could be prevented and nobody says shit.

Ok, well I guess it doesn't make much sense to me then...so there's something about the schedule that you feel is dangerous to your little one? So dangerous that you're willing to risk major health complications?

[Gcooker]

Ok, well I guess it doesn't make much sense to me then...so there's something about the schedule that you feel is dangerous to your little one? So dangerous that you're willing to risk major health complications?

Explained in this thread over and over and over and over and over... for 11 fucking pages. His kid will get vaccines... stalling for a few weeks to see what happens isn't risking major health complications. Shit, our kids both got vaccinated as close to the schedule as possible but one set was a month late due to a vaccine shortage (Canada) and the too many appointments at the public health office.

I don't agree with Doughboy but I can see his point. The answers to your questions are in the pages of bull shit preceeding .

[Adolf Allerbush]

Explained in this thread over and over and over and over and over... for 11 fucking pages. His kid will get vaccines... stalling for a few weeks to see what happens isn't risking major health complications. Shit, our kids both got vaccinated as close to the schedule as possible but one set was a month late due to a vaccine shortage (Canada) and the too many appointments at the public health office.

I don't agree with Doughboy but I can see his point. The answers to your questions are in the pages of bull shit preceeding .

Yes, but what's the point of delaying the schedule? If there is very little to no risk...that's my point.

[doughboyshredder]

Read rabid pro vaxxers comment about vax schedule.

We have the time and money to do our vaccinations one at a time. This allows us to monitor reactions.

Again, the US has the most aggressive schedule in the world. If less aggressive schedules were major health risks then the rest of the world would be fucked.

Too many vaccines at once can be dangerous because if there is a reaction it's impossible to know which vaccine caused it.

[alfajores]

Holy shit! An intelligent voice of reason.

A good environment where you would not need these vaccinations would be in a very rural setting where you are isolated and have low exposure to outsiders, island communities, and in roles where you basically live in a sterile environment like a bubble. You might think I am being silly and hyperbolic, but my previous statement was not absolute and instead relative. Herd immunity is reached by a community as a whole to protect the community from disease. The chances of a vaccination not working on individuals often makes up a chunk of the percentage of individuals that herd immunity protects. For individuals, families, or groups/cohorts to not immunize is to welcome disease into their ranks. While the immunized will be protected, those whom are not will be hit hard. We have seen this in religious communities of anti-vaxers in the US that did missions. I am pretty set on getting well vaccinated if you leave the country. Your exposure jumps exponentially in international travel.

[doughboyshredder]

Posted by old goat :

Re: vaccine schedules--they are not established based entirely on medical grounds but on logistical and socio-economic grounds. Childhood is when people have the best medical care access for the most part and also when there are predictable milestones, like entering school, when vaccine status can be determined. It is hard to vaccinate adults--especially young adults who rarely see a doctor and who often don't have access to vaccination records. Giving a lot of vaccinations at once is a matter of convenience and cost--for every parent complaining about their kid having to get so many vaccinations at once, if we were to spread out the schedule there would be 10 times as many parents complaining about having to take off work and pay additional copays for the additional visits. People would complain that it's a plot by the doctors to make more money.

The dramatic increases in life expectancy and decreases in infant and child mortalityin the twentieth century were due to vaccination, sanitation (primarily sewage systems and clean water, and adequate nutrition (we may have overshot the mark on that one). We are in danger if we take these things for granted. The technological successes of modern medicine are of very minor importance.

[PNWbrit]

were due to vaccination, sanitation (primarily sewage systems and clean water, and adequate nutrition

Seems rude not to....

[Dexter Rutecki]

Doesn't change anything from my end, and I hate to even suggest that a dope like DBS may not (at least on this) be a complete dope, but there is this:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3170075/

Now, that's the only thing I could find (from a reliable source--hundreds of anti-vax sites will have their own versions) that comes close to supporting DBS. It's only been cited 3 times as far as I can see (and none of those seem to support DBS's point). And even the authors of this study basically acknowledge that pre-term births could explain most or all of the discrepancy, I think.

What I would like to know is if the other vaccine schedules (fewer vaccines in the same amount of time) correlate to other complications, because if so that in itself could negate the point of this paper (and what DBS seems to believe). For me the bottom line is that there is no persuasive reason to choose an alternate schedule, and beyond that there is DBS's idiocy about being against government mandated vaccinations. It's typical libertarian type kneejerk bullshit that never makes any sense. Why the fuck would any sensible person leave a decision like when to vaccinate children up to individuals? How is the typical citizen of the U.S., with an education that on average may include 'some' college, remotely qualified to determined when a child should be vaccinated? Putting aside the specifics of this particular debate, that bit of 'logic' is what makes DBS the special idiot that he is (well, it's probably just a small part of what makes him such an idiot, but it's an important part).

It reminds me of people who question global warming. Sure, feel free to question--but plenty of smart people far more qualified to find the answers have already asked those questions, so it's tough to imagine that you're ever going make sense with a contrarian argument. That's not blind submission to authority or allowing the big, bad gubmint to trample your rights--it's just common sense and recognizing the facts.

[Adolf Allerbush]

Posted by old goat :

Re: vaccine schedules--they are not established based entirely on medical grounds but on logistical and socio-economic grounds. Childhood is when people have the best medical care access for the most part and also when there are predictable milestones, like entering school, when vaccine status can be determined. It is hard to vaccinate adults--especially young adults who rarely see a doctor and who often don't have access to vaccination records. Giving a lot of vaccinations at once is a matter of convenience and cost--for every parent complaining about their kid having to get so many vaccinations at once, if we were to spread out the schedule there would be 10 times as many parents complaining about having to take off work and pay additional copays for the additional visits. People would complain that it's a plot by the doctors to make more money.

The dramatic increases in life expectancy and decreases in infant and child mortalityin the twentieth century were due to vaccination, sanitation (primarily sewage systems and clean water, and adequate nutrition (we may have overshot the mark on that one). We are in danger if we take these things for granted. The technological successes of modern medicine are of very minor importance.

So what's the point of spacing them out more if there is no benefit?

[doughboyshredder]

So what's the point of spacing them out more if there is no benefit?

As I've already stated, it's to monitor reactions. If you aren't spacing them out and there is a reaction there is no way to know which vaccine is responsible.

[Adolf Allerbush]

As I've already stated, it's to monitor reactions. If you aren't spacing them out and there is a reaction there is no way to know which vaccine is responsible.

So if your little one has an adverse reaction to a given vaccine then you'd do what? Also, what would be considered "adverse"?

[MagnificentUnicorn]

As I've already stated, it's to monitor reactions. If you aren't spacing them out and there is a reaction there is no way to know which vaccine is responsible.

Reactions after vaccinations are almost always due to the act of injecting and not the vaccine. So any reaction you monitor is purely anecdotal and not really meaningful. It's good to know you are vaccinating your child, but your rationale for an alternative schedule is purely emotional and not rational. I posted earlier, this is typical for first time parents.

[PNWbrit]

your rationale for an alternative schedule is purely emotional and not rational. I posted earlier, this is typical for first time parents.

Oh you've gone and done it now......

what would be considered "adverse"

Baby DBS pulling a "gameface"

[doughboyshredder]

Reactions after vaccinations are almost always due to the act of injecting and not the vaccine. So any reaction you monitor is purely anecdotal and not really meaningful. It's good to know you are vaccinating your child, but your rationale for an alternative schedule is purely emotional and not rational. I posted earlier, this is typical for first time parents.

I'm curious how you were able to review my family history and know whether we have a history of allergic reactions to medications

[doughboyshredder]

So if your little one has an adverse reaction to a given vaccine then you'd do what? Also, what would be considered "adverse"?

Well most importantly they wouldn't get a booster shot at that specific vaccine. It would also give us more information about any potential allergies that our son has inherited

[MagnificentUnicorn]

I'm curious how you were able to review my family history and know whether we have a history of allergic reactions to medications

Studies have shown that almost all reactions after vaccinations are from the injection, the needle piercing the skin and entering the subcutaneous tissue(fat) and muscle and not the vaccine itself. What allergies to medications do you have that would lead you to suspect that little dbs would have a reaction to vaccinations?

[hutash]

So what's the point of spacing them out more if there is no benefit?

There is none, and in fact his schedule is less safe. Mutivalent vaccines have been shown to be safer then give multiple single vaccines, but people who think they know better don't.

Since the vast, vast majority do not have reactions there is no good reason to do them seperateky, and many good reasons to use a Mutivalent vax. If there is a reaction seperated them out if you want, but it is not any safer.

The problem is a handful of people with no real knowledge think they know better then some of the best medical minds. We don't come up with vaccination protocols for the fun of it. There is a fuck load of information, thought and research behind them, and then some twit with Google suddenly knows better.

[frorider]

https://m.washingtonpost.com/news/mo...-to-thousands/

Since his death, however, the conspiracy theories have begun to crumble as evidence has emerged linking Bradstreet to a shadowy online industry in unapproved medicine.

Bradstreet’s Internet postings tie him to an unlicensed medical factory that was recently shut down for producing potentially contaminated vials of a supposed wonder “cure” called GcMAF.