First confirmed Measles death since 2003

[mtngirl79]

She can do what she wants, but facts are facts. The u.s. has relatively poor birth statistics because of many factors that have little to nothing to do with what women want and more to do with expediency and out of touch chauvinist doctors.

Our birth system in this country is pretty fucked up.

I had left the hospital probably a week before I originally posted my thoughts and she lost her shit on me assuming that because I had a dick I didn't know what I was talking about.

She is the sexist here.

We live in an extremely patriarchal society where girls are conditioned to please (well, try to anyways) men and be submissive from a very early age. Sometimes parents don't even realize they are doing it. It's deeply ingrained in our culture.

To change that men need to STFU about women's bodies. The chovinistic patriarchal society CAUSED many of the messed up things in childbirth/women's health, that's why I told you to stfu.

There are lots of options and open minded Dr's and midwives are around. Things are improving.

[doughboyshredder]

We live in an extremely patriarchal society where girls are conditioned to please (well, try to anyways) men and be submissive from a very early age. Sometimes parents don't even realize they are doing it. It's deeply ingrained in our culture.

To change that men need to STFU about women's bodies. The chovinistic patriarchal society CAUSED many of the messed up things in childbirth/women's health, that's why I told you to stfu.

There are lots of options and open minded Dr's and midwives are around. Things are improving.

And if people like you keep telling men that are on ypur side to stfu things won't improve as fast.

Our doula was awesome.

[Gcooker]

And if people like you keep telling men that are on ypur side to stfu things won't improve as fast.

Her doula was awesome.

Fixed it for ya. We had awesome, free midwife care.... because Canada. She chose not to have a doula.

We chose to vaccinate as per the standard routine but a few months either way doesn't seem like a big deal. As a family however, we also chose not to allow un-vaccinated people into our house until after both kiddies got their needles.

[mtngirl79]

And if people like you keep telling men that are on ypur side to stfu things won't improve as fast.

Our doula was awesome.

Nope. You still don't get it.

[old goat]

When I was a medical student on OB a very frightened, very alone 16 year old came in to deliver. She kept begging for pain medicine. The (male) OB resident kept telling her it was bad for the baby. A few days later a late 20's woman came in, with her husband, to deliver, telling us she wanted natural childbirth no meds. Every time she groaned in pain the (male) resident (can't remember if it was the same one) asked her again if she wanted a shot.
Same county hospital, on the GYN unit, unmarried teenager with a couple of kids came in for chronic pelvic pain and was laparoscoped. The attending identified two adhesions and directed the resident to cauterize them. The adhesions they were cauterizing were actually her tubes. Maybe they thought they were fooling the OR nurses by calling them adhesions, but if you can't fool a 3rd year medical student you sure can't fool an OR nurse.
This was back in the 70's and things are certainly improved in general--for starters most new OB-GYNs are women--but the old attitudes haven't died, not by a long shot.

DBS-regardless of the reason for your animosity towards MG you're making a fool of yourself with your name calling, even more than with your vaccine BS.

[bodywhomper]

with my three kids, my wife and i had an agreement. we develop our birthing plans and strategies together, though it was driven by her desires. i was to be her coach through most of labor/transition. this was an agreement shared with the midwives (and OB's) and they all agreed to our approach and were encouraging to our decisions. it seems that some on this thread are not amenable to this concept.

[doughboyshredder]

Nope. You still don't get it.

So in your world men can't have opinions about issues that affect women. What about white people having opinions about issues that affect black people? Or straight people having an opinion about Issues that affect gay people?

As a straight white male I can have opinions about those issues. I can be an advocate for people that are different than I am.

What I can't do (if I don't want to be an asshole) is tell a woman, a person of color, or a lgbt person, what they should do or how they should feel, or how they should react.

[hutash]

Not all decisions should be left up to the woman during child birth. My wife went into labor, but then stopped so her OB gave her the choice of going home or stripping membranes to get things going. She just wanted to get things over so went for the B options. Basically she went from almost no contractions to massive contractions extremely rapidly. I got to the hospital in the middle of all this and she was a raving lunatic (due to pain, she is actually quite nice). She screamed at me "we are not doing this again" meaning no more kids, which was our plan all along, but if she could have found a pair of scissors she would have castrated me on the spot (she has the skills to do it too.)

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Wow. Nothing wrong with discussing a birth plan with your significant other but as a man, (and a father of 2), I have absolutely no say in how things should be done once the labour starts. She wants drugs? Go for it. She want an epidural? Go for it. She wants to do it non medicated, go for it. But to state you actually have a say in what happens once it gets bad, fuck you.

It was a question and not my opinion or stance on the matter. When it comes to the mother's health and comfort it's all up to her IMO but if it's something that could or would harm the baby I would try and talk to her about the options and seek the opinion of her OB.

I know lots of people have used mid wives and that the way it's been done since the beginning. I do know of a few women who almost killed themselves and the baby because of their insistence on completely "natural" child birth and refused medical care until it was clear they would both die. It's a fine line and open communication between everyone involved is a good idea.

FWIW, I didn't try and influence my ex-wife at all when it came time for her to deliver.

[LightRanger]

Same county hospital, on the GYN unit, unmarried teenager with a couple of kids came in for chronic pelvic pain and was laparoscoped. The attending identified two adhesions and directed the resident to cauterize them. The adhesions they were cauterizing were actually her tubes. Maybe they thought they were fooling the OR nurses by calling them adhesions, but if you can't fool a 3rd year medical student you sure can't fool an OR nurse.

Jesus Christ.

not amendable to this concept.

I suggest you amend the word amendable.

Also, this thread sucks.

[mtngirl79]

So in your world men can't have opinions about issues that affect women. What about white people having opinions about issues that affect black people? Or straight people having an opinion about Issues that affect gay people?

As a straight white male I can have opinions about those issues. I can be an advocate for people that are different than I am.

What I can't do (if I don't want to be an asshole) is tell a woman, a person of color, or a lgbt person, what they should do or how they should feel, or how they should react.

You can have an opinion about whatever you want. Opinions are like assholes and all.

The thing is, having an opinion about how babies should be birthed besides whatever is safest and most comfortable for mother/baby is a little bit like you having an opinion about what brand of tampon I should use.

Contrary to popular belief, most doctors and medical professionals want to do the best possible for their patients. They don't want to kill your baby or its mom.

Expressing an opinion is an attempt at influencing which is an attempt at control.

[doughboyshredder]

You can have an opinion about whatever you want. Opinions are like assholes and all.

The thing is, having an opinion about how babies should be birthed besides whatever is safest and most comfortable for mother/baby is a little bit like you having an opinion about what brand of tampon I should use.

Contrary to popular belief, most doctors and medical professionals want to do the best possible for their patients. They don't want to kill your baby or its mom.

Expressing an opinion is an attempt at influencing which is an attempt at control.

Get over yourself.

[doughboyshredder]

Contrary to popular belief, most doctors and medical professionals want to do the best possible for their patients.

If this were 100% true we wouldn't have a c-section rate 3-5 times higher than the who recommends.

Many doctors put too much weight on their schedule, outdated opinions based on old information, insurance payments, and other concerns. If they only cared about the health of mom and baby hospital births would be much different.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

When I was a medical student on OB a very frightened, very alone 16 year old came in to deliver. She kept begging for pain medicine. The (male) OB resident kept telling her it was bad for the baby. A few days later a late 20's woman came in, with her husband, to deliver, telling us she wanted natural childbirth no meds. Every time she groaned in pain the (male) resident (can't remember if it was the same one) asked her again if she wanted a shot.
Same county hospital, on the GYN unit, unmarried teenager with a couple of kids came in for chronic pelvic pain and was laparoscoped. The attending identified two adhesions and directed the resident to cauterize them. The adhesions they were cauterizing were actually her tubes. Maybe they thought they were fooling the OR nurses by calling them adhesions, but if you can't fool a 3rd year medical student you sure can't fool an OR nurse.
This was back in the 70's and things are certainly improved in general--for starters most new OB-GYNs are women--but the old attitudes haven't died, not by a long shot.

DBS-regardless of the reason for your animosity towards MG you're making a fool of yourself with your name calling, even more than with your vaccine BS.

So, you're saying you witnessed a gynecologist sterilize a women on purpose without consent and you didn't report it?

[mtngirl79]

If this were 100% true we wouldn't have a c-section rate 3-5 times higher than the who recommends.

Many doctors put too much weight on their schedule, outdated opinions based on old information, insurance payments, and other concerns. If they only cared about the health of mom and baby hospital births would be much different.

And baby mama has the option of looking for a Dr she is comfortable with.

You and I are not drs. Perhaps the csection rate has something to do with our obesity levels?

Again, something to discuss with the doctor.

What I would want to avoid is a woman resisting a csection because her partner has his opinion about the csection rate in the US and putting herself and or the baby at risk.

[doughboyshredder]

And baby mama has the option of looking for a Dr she is comfortable with.



What I would want to avoid is a woman resisting a csection because her partner has his opinion about the csection rate in the US and putting herself and or the baby at risk.

*Some* women have that option. Women of color, female immigrants, and poor women may not have the same options that you would.

http://academic.udayton.edu/health/0.../racial01c.htm

Of course we wouldn't want any woman or baby to be put at risk, but it is worth noting that the high rates of c sections in the U.S. seem to have nothing to do with health concerns.

This article is a few years old, but at that time 28% of doctors surveyed said they preferred to deliver by c section because of liability concerns. They feel there is less of a chance of being sued. There are many other factors noted that have nothing to do with medical necessity.

http://academic.udayton.edu/health/0.../racial01c.htm

I feel that you trust doctors in this country a bit more than you should.

Imagine if this happened to you: http://www.dailydot.com/lifestyle/fo...iotomy-lawyer/

Maybe you wouldn't trust these doctors so much.

[doughboyshredder]

Fixed it for ya. .

Nah, not in this marriage. Everything is "ours".

Nothing and I do mean nothing is "mine" or "hers".

[old goat]

So, you're saying you witnessed a gynecologist sterilize a women on purpose without consent and you didn't report it?

no way to prove it, which I'm sure was part of the point. Back then laparoscopy wasn't on video and there was no recording. I figured out what was going on from the way they were talking and looking at each other, not by actually seeing it.

Re C Sections--it is very much a liability issue. if a baby is born with complications of delivery--say brain damage--the first thing the plaintiff's attorney will ask is why didn't you do a C section. Actually --the plaintiff's attorney will probably not get the chance; the insurance company lawyer will ask that the first time he meets the doc, before he tries to settle the case for the insurance limit.
The fact that countries with lower C section rates don't have higher birth complication rates will have no influence in the outcome. In court it's not about what is best practice for the population, it's about whether doing a c section could possibly have prevented the complication, and even it it wouldn't have, the jury will go into deliberations convinced that it would have. A lot of unnecessary medical procedures are done because of greed, or ignorance, or how the doctor was trained, or what all the other doctors do. C section is one area where the fear of being sued is genuine. Verdicts in these cases often exceed the insurance coverage limit, bankrupting the doctor.

[mtngirl79]

Nah, not in this marriage. Everything is "ours".


Nothing and I do mean nothing is "mine" or "hers".

Her body is hers

[mtngirl79]

*Some* women have that option. Women of color, female immigrants, and poor women may not have the same options that you would.

http://academic.udayton.edu/health/0.../racial01c.htm

Of course we wouldn't want any woman or baby to be put at risk, but it is worth noting that the high rates of c sections in the U.S. seem to have nothing to do with health concerns.

This article is a few years old, but at that time 28% of doctors surveyed said they preferred to deliver by c section because of liability concerns. They feel there is less of a chance of being sued. There are many other factors noted that have nothing to do with medical necessity.

http://academic.udayton.edu/health/0.../racial01c.htm

I feel that you trust doctors in this country a bit more than you should.

Imagine if this happened to you: http://www.dailydot.com/lifestyle/fo...iotomy-lawyer/

Maybe you wouldn't trust these doctors so much.

You do realize that risk equals liability, right? The higher the risk, the higher the liability.

[doughboyshredder]

Her body is hers

You are too much.

What gives you the right to tell my wife how she has to live?

What gives you the right to judge my marriage?

The personal details of our marriage are none of your business, but like I said in this marriage we refer to everything as ours. I didn't miss a single doctors visit while we were pregnant. Our OB thinks we're a bit odd since my wife's responses were always along the lines of "we've been doing this" "we're feeling this way", etc...

[doughboyshredder]

You do realize that risk equals liability, right? The higher the risk, the higher the liability.

There are more variables with vaginal birth.

The benefits of a vaginal birth outweigh the risks associated with it. This is why the World Health Organization and every reputable medical organization on the planet agrees that unless a c section is medically necessary a vaginal birth is the preferred method.

Do a little research and maybe you can learn why this is. I don't feel like taking any more of my time trying to educate you.

[mtngirl79]

There are more variables with vaginal birth.

The benefits of a vaginal birth outweigh the risks associated with it. This is why the World Health Organization and every reputable medical organization on the planet agrees that unless a c section is medically necessary a vaginal birth is the preferred method.

Do a little research and maybe you can learn why this is. I don't feel like taking any more of my time trying to educate you.

I still don't understand what this has to do with it being between a woman and her doctor. I would rather c sections happen than babies or mothers die or babies have devolopmental disabilities.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

What's your stance on in utero vaccinations?

[mtngirl79]

You are too much.

What gives you the right to tell my wife how she has to live?

What gives you the right to judge my marriage?

The personal details of our marriage are none of your business, but like I said in this marriage we refer to everything as ours. I didn't miss a single doctors visit while we were pregnant. Our OB thinks we're a bit odd since my wife's responses were always along the lines of "we've been doing this" "we're feeling this way", etc...

It's cute. But he body is still hers. You can't promise that away.