Ukraine

[Casey E]

Kinda important to get this right, even if trumptards “don’t believe in numbers”.

Sound right?


The USA has not spent $350 billion in Ukraine, nor even $300 billion. I have seen figures ranging anywhere from $119.7 billion (Kiel Institute for the World Economy) to $182.8 billion (U.S. Department of Defense), but the most consistent figure that I have seen is around $175 billion, and only $105.1 billion of that is to the Ukrainian government directly:
- $2 billion in humanitarian aid
- $33.3 billion in budget support
- $69.8 billion in weapons, equipment, and other military support
(Council on Foreign Relations, BBC News, Euronews, US Special Inspector General for Operation Atlantic Resolve)

Most of the remainder is funding various U.S. activities associated with the war in Ukraine, and a small portion supports other affected countries in the region (the $182.8 billion figure includes US military training and replenishing US defence stocks, so it includes all spending on the response to Russia's invasion of Ukraine). (Council on Foreign Relations, BBC News)

Of the $182.8 billion from the USA, only $83.4 billion has been sent, with the remaining $99.4 billion either not yet committed or not yet approved for payment. This is why Ukraine has received only $76 billion from the USA, and the $100 billion that people claim is missing is actually money that has not been sent. (Euronews, ?????????? ??????)

By comparison, the Kiel Institute calculates that, including military, financial, and humanitarian aid to Ukraine, the EU has spent $138.7 billion (compared to their calculation of $119.7 billion from the USA). Their calculations include only support directly given to Ukraine and exclude things like money used to replenish U.S. weapon stocks following donations to Kyiv, funds spent to help neighbouring countries welcome Ukrainian refugees, etc. However, using a broader definition, the European Union has committed $198 billion so far. (BBC News, Washington Post, Fox News)

Of all the funding Ukraine as received, NATO estimates that nearly 60% of the funding for Ukraine has come from across Europe and Canada. (ABC News and BBC News)

Canada has given $19.7 billion in aid to Ukraine:
- $12.4 billion in financial aid
- $4.5 billion in military assistance
The remaining funds are spread between humanitarian, development, stabilization, etc. aid funding. (THX News and Government of Canada)

Canada has also provided $5 billion to Ukraine from seized Russian assets, and the money will be repaid from interest earned on the held Russian assets (i.e., Russia will be bearing the burden of repayment). (Global News, National Post, CTV News, The Kyiv Independent, and Anadolu Agency)

In total, Ukraine has spent $120 billion of its own money, and Ukraine estimates that that total they have spent on the war is about $320 billion. (Voice of America)

If you're wondering, 35% of the funds going to Ukraine from Europe have been loans, and some of the repayment of those loans are coming from revenues from frozen and seized Russian assets and Ukraine isn't having to pay those portions of the loans, and the rest are really generous terms where Ukraine will be repaying less interest over lengthy repayment periods. The remaining 65% is grants an in-kind support. (Washington Post and BBC News)

The actual value of the weapons and equipment sent to Ukraine by the USA is about 60% lower than they were priced because the price was for new stock. Much of the military equipment and ammunition sent to Ukraine is old and of limited combat effectiveness because it came from aging US stockpiles, some of the ammunition is expired, and a majority of the equipment isn't even used by the US military anymore (and therefore has an effective value of $0 to the USA). Normally, this stock would have to be disposed of, but giving it to Ukraine means there are effectively no disposal expenses. Furthermore, much of the funding for Ukraine is being spent in the USA, such as employing US workers to manufacture the replacement equipment and supplies for refilling US stockpiles. (Kyiv Post and AL24news - ???? ??????? ???????

***ETA: I am unable to share the links directly to the articles that I am using as sources, as there is an ongoing dispute between the Government of Canada and Facebook that prevents Canadian Facebook users from being able to share or even see news articles from any news agency. Here is another way that we are able to share links:

https://r.pebmac.ca/https://www.ifw-...pport-tracker/

https://r.pebmac.ca/https://www.ukraineoversight.gov/

https://r.pebmac.ca/https://www.cfr....-going-ukraine

https://r.pebmac.ca/https://www.bbc....s/crew8y7pwd5o

https://r.pebmac.ca/https://www.euro...ort-to-ukraine

https://r.pebmac.ca/https://www.prav.../02/2/7496431/

https://r.pebmac.ca/https://www.wash...united-states/

https://r.pebmac.ca/https://www.foxn...house-exchange

https://r.pebmac.ca/https://abcnews....y?id=119167409

https://r.pebmac.ca/https://abcnews....y?id=119157061

https://r.pebmac.ca/https://thxnews....funding-boost/

https://r.pebmac.ca/https://thxnews....ssia-invasion/

https://r.pebmac.ca/https://www.pm.g...-peace-ukraine

https://r.pebmac.ca/https://www.cana...f-ukraine.html

https://r.pebmac.ca/https://www.cana...o-ukraine.html

https://r.pebmac.ca/https://www.pm.g...-peace-ukraine

https://r.pebmac.ca/https://globalne...ry-canada-aid/

https://r.pebmac.ca/https://national...assets-trudeau

https://r.pebmac.ca/https://www.aa.c...assets/3491923

https://r.pebmac.ca/https://www.voan...g/7981441.html

https://r.pebmac.ca/https://kyivinde...ussian-assets/

https://r.pebmac.ca/https://www.kyivpost.com/post/47869

https://r.pebmac.ca/https://www.fact...kraine-claims/

https://r.pebmac.ca/https://www.wils...boosts-us-jobs

https://r.pebmac.ca/https://al24news...-a-decade-ago/

[MultiVerse]

Of the $182.8 billion from the USA, only $83.4 billion has been sent, with the remaining $99.4 billion either not yet committed or not yet approved for payment. This is why Ukraine has received only $76 billion from the USA, and the $100 billion that people claim is missing is actually money that has not been sent. (Euronews, ?????????? ??????)

The reason for any discrepancy is severalfold: 1) not all of the aid appropriated by Congress was actually spent 2) not all of the items in the appropriations bills had to do with Ukraine, and 3) most of the appropriations in the Ukraine national security supplementals went towards shoring up the homegrown US defense industrial base

Most people don't realize the extent to which America's defense manufacturing sector was falling apart and on life support. Real, not nominal, defense spending has been falling for years with much of that spending going increasingly towards maintaining existing operations rather than procurement

[mcski]

Sadly, I’ve come across plenty of maga cult that are not only impervious to those data points, they’ve decided to emulated their dear leader and have started sharing Russian talking points now about what a bad guy Zelinsky is and how he is ripping us off. It’s surreal

[KQ]

From the FB page Card Campaign. If you aren't yet a follower I suggest you start.

Good afternoon, Democracy Savers,
After the appalling ambush we saw in the Oval Office last week, many of us are wondering what we can do to show our support for Ukraine. Here are a few ideas (links to websites are in the comments below):
First and foremost, call your Senators and Representative (202-224-3121) to let them know we unequivocally support Ukraine and condemn Russian aggression. Demand (politely) that they denounce Trump and Vance’s plot to humiliate President Zelenskyy. Keep bombarding their offices with calls and letters. On its website, 5Calls has a suggested phone script under Foreign Affairs - or use your own words.
A Card Campaigner suggested that we flood the Ukranian Embassy with cards and letters of support. The address is: 3350 M St. NW, Washington, DC 20007. You also can send emails to emb_us@mfa.gov.ua
Beyond providing moral support, you can donate money or supplies to Ukraine's war effort or to provide humanitarian assistance.
Ukraine's government set up its own assistance site called United 24.
There are a number of reputable organizations providing relief and assistance such as Americares, International Rescue Committee, World Central Kitchen, Hope for Ukraine, United Help Ukraine, and too many others to name. The link to Charity Navigator shows organizations supporting Ukraine and the organization's rating.
(NOTE: The Card Campaign is not affiliated with and does not endorse any of these charities. This is simply a random sampling pulled from an internet search.)
Thank you to all the Democracy Savers who have commented today showing their support for Ukraine - and for the fight for democracy worldwide.

[MultiVerse]

It's one of their favorite talking points: that Zelensky is using the aid to buy yachts and mansions. It's just not true. All of the aid is carefully tracked inside Ukraine using the standardized NATO weapons tracking system

[highangle]

Sadly, I’ve come across plenty of maga cult that are not only impervious to those data points, they’ve decided to emulated their dear leader and have started sharing Russian talking points now about what a bad guy Zelinsky is and how he is ripping us off. It’s surreal

That is what MAGA did through QANON: created a cult messaging infrastructure that relieves adherents from the burden of thought [which is truly painful for most anyway].



Stop thinking and follow me. I will make you masters of the world.

[xyz]

[emoji638]][emoji640][emoji639]][emoji638][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]]][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]][emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji638]]The Ukrainian constitution FORBIDS ELECTIONS DURING TIMES OF WAR, dumbfuck.

Everybody knows that, you clown.

Zelensky has options to lift Marshall law and hold an election. Including with a cease fire. But he doesn’t want one it seems. He loves his meat grinder. Let’s see if the people do too.




Sent from my iPhone using [emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji640][emoji638][emoji638][emoji638]]TGR Forums

[jono]

Zelensky's offer to audit stood as of Friday's visit to Fox. The interview gets better as it goes, mostly over the second-guessing stuff from 19:00 on:

https://www.youtube.com/live/g-frvSR...2wBV60rZAO3moe

[BCMtnHound]

At xyz: You’re an embarrassment.

[highangle]

Everybody knows that, you clown. Zelensky has options to lift Marshall law and hold an election. Including with a cease fire. But he doesn’t want one it seems. He loves his meat grinder. Let’s see if the people do too. Sent from my iPhone using [emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji640][emoji638][emoji638][emoji638]]TGR Forums

I hope a Russian glide bomb never kills you at a polling place, where everyone knew you would be, on that date, sometime between the hours of 0930-1900.


Even though you are a sniveling amoral disingenous fuck regurgitating JD Vance levels of couch semen, I still hope that hypersonic motherfucker misses you and takes out Tucker Carlson.

[RTsucks]

Wtf does George C. Marshall have to do with it, besides rolling over in his grave at the idea of winning ww2 with xyz pulling his boots on?

[ötzi]

I can't wait for the parallel Olympics where it's just the US, Russia, Belarus, Hungary and North Korea

[xyz]

I hope a Russian glide bomb never kills you at a polling place, where everyone knew you would be, on that date, sometime between the hours of 0930-1900.


Even though you are a sniveling amoral disingenous fuck regurgitating JD Vance levels of couch semen, I still hope that hypersonic motherfucker misses you and takes out Tucker Carlson.

I’m amoral? lol. Your wet dream is escalating this war to WW3. I hope you get tossed into a van at 3 am and sent to the front lines like you’re asking the Ukrainians to do.

Ukraine cannot win this war without WW3. That’s the hard truth here. Pretending otherwise is a childish fantasy.

The US should just walk away. F this mineral deal, it reeks of forever war. This is Europe’s mess, thanks to Boris Johnson fn up the peace deal.

[jono]

You could scroll up and spend 6 minutes of your time watching the man speak for himself. But you could have done that already and you'd rather show your ignorance to everyone that knows anything. Embarrassment may be a kindness.

[ex-powderbroker]

"The nation which can prefer disgrace to danger is prepared for a master and deserves one."

[highangle]

I’m amoral? lol.

Of course you're amoral. If that's some sort of new information, you are likely just repressing your vast knowledge of the facts of the matter.

ProTip: you've got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything

[rod9301]

It's one of their favorite talking points: that Zelensky is using the aid to buy yachts and mansions. It's just not true. All of the aid is carefully tracked inside Ukraine using the standardized NATO weapons tracking system

And the Ukrainian ambassador gets it.

From bbc

He has spent three years defending his country from invasion, while also trying to hold together a society and its political leadership that Putin has tried to drive apart.

But out of the main camera shot was another sight in the room. Zelensky's ambassador to Washington, Oksana Markarova, who was spotted with her head in her hands as the arguments escalated.

It is an image that sums up the diplomatic position for Zelensky and his relationship with - until now at least - his superpower sponsor in trying to repel Russia.

Standing up to Trump like he did on Friday could, ultimately, mean losing to Putin.


Sent from my moto g 5G using Tapatalk

[rod9301]

It's one of their favorite talking points: that Zelensky is using the aid to buy yachts and mansions. It's just not true. All of the aid is carefully tracked inside Ukraine using the standardized NATO weapons tracking system

Really? Carefully tracked? Really? In the country voted the most corrupt in Europe 4 years ago?

Sent from my moto g 5G using Tapatalk

[RTsucks]

What do you care? Elon just proved that our government has 12.4 trillion in waste fraud and abuse per year. Ukraine, by comparison, is the most transparent country in the world. Transparent enough that we can finally find out how much shit we have simply by sending it to Ukraine.

[Upinsmoke]

I wonder what the pay rate is for spewing Russian Propaganda? XYZ & Rod must be rich now so they can bury their moral corruption

[MultiVerse]

Rod's home country Romania is even more corrupt. And Ukraine has cleaned up its act since that "vote." Of course, Rod's favorite place to invest—Russia—is where the real corruption is. MAGA is infected by Russian propaganda

[Dantheman]

I've heard Tristan Harris several times say that 19 of the top 20 Christian websites in the US are run by Russian troll farms.

[skaredshtles]

I've heard Tristan Harris several times say that 19 of the top 20 Christian websites in the US are run by Russian troll farms.

I would love to see evidence of this. It would be DELICIOUS.

[jono]

<p>
Apparently not Christian websites, but Facebook pages, as initially reported by a Christian website in 2019:&nbsp;</p>
<p>
https://medium.com/koinonia/19-of-20...e-e59e98e75cfb</p>

[ex-powderbroker]

Rod, how many cam girls do you have? Did you get a phd from Andrew Tate, or just Trump Putin U?