Ukraine

[MagnificentUnicorn]

[emoji638]][emoji640][emoji639]][emoji638][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]]][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]][emoji640][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]]]]Funny how everything goes to shit when you ask someone pay up.

He turned down two other occasions to sign. He might have blown it intentionally.

I think a lot of this is just feeling out how serious people are.

Did you read the “mineral deal” text? It was all beneficial to Ukraine except for security. It was giving more aid to Ukraine not asking to pay up. Access to minerals, pay for the development of the mineral resources and pay for the minerals.

[::: :::]

Trump keeps doing dumb shit & looking around waiting for the high fives as people here and abroad are just floored by how ill considered all his decisions are

[RTsucks]

Oh Cono pls just nono

[TBS]

Zelenskyy was absolutely right to walk away. Trump was peddling bullshit.

First off, Trump’s claims that Ukraine owes USA $350 billion is bogus.
The max amount spent by USA on Ukraine since January 2022 is at most $180 billion.
- of that, about $60 billion were payments to US defense contractors to manufacture and ship weapons to Ukraine.
- A bunch more was to buy obsolete surplus weapons systems from DoD stockpiles.
- all but at most $20 billion of the total were direct grants to Ukraine. Trump is trying to change the deal to make all $180 billion repayable, with a multiplier of 2.

Second, this whole minerals development fund agreement is nothing more than an accounting and payment artifice with a bunch of fluff around it. Private companies will be doing the actual resource extraction, selling the output and paying royalties to this fund, of which some percentage would go to USA and rest to Ukraine.

So what private company is gonna spend $1billion and 15+years of development on a mine or refinery facility in a conflict zone without some sort of comfort that it won’t get blown up or confiscated in Putin’s Next Adventure? Without credible military support, the answer is no one.

So what’s in this deal for Ukraine? Nothing that I can see…

So let’s play this game out. Zelenskyy goes to the EU asking for a security guarantee and the lead in negotiating a peace with Russia, and EU gets access to resources.

Would NATO minus USA be enough threat to deter Putin from attacking again?

I think it would, and I also think Trump’s act so far has made our euro and Canukistani friends realize USA’s current regime can’t be trusted and may be hostile to their interests. So after some dithering, they take Zelenskyy up on that deal.

Result - Trump gets shut out of any peace plan, doesn’t get to skim his vigorish, doesn’t get the public adulation he so desperately craves.
And Europe takes more control over their destiny.

[KQ]

An intriguing analysis has been circulating online regarding the psychological aspects of Zelensky’s meeting with Trump and Vance, conducted using ChatGPT.

From this analysis, it becomes evident that we have witnessed a true masterclass in gaslighting, manipulation, and coercion on the part of Trump and his entourage. Let’s break down the key points:

1. Blaming the victim for their own situation

Trump explicitly tells Zelensky: “You have allowed yourself to be in a very bad position.” This is classic abuser rhetoric—blaming the victim for their suffering. The implication is that Ukraine itself is responsible for being occupied by Russia and for the deaths of its people.

2. Pressure and coercion into ‘gratitude’

Vance demands that Zelensky say “thank you.” This is an extremely toxic tactic—forcing the victim to express gratitude for the help they desperately need, only to later accuse them of ingratitude if they attempt to assert their rights.

3. Manipulating the concept of ‘peace’

Trump claims that Zelensky is “not ready for peace.” However, what he actually means is Ukraine’s capitulation. This is a classic manipulation technique—substituting the idea of a just peace with the notion of surrender.

4. Refusing to acknowledge the reality of war

Trump repeatedly insists that Zelensky has “no cards to play” and that “without us, you have nothing.” This is yet another abusive tactic—undermining the victim’s efforts by asserting that they are powerless without the mercy of their ‘saviour.’

5. Devaluing the victims of war

“If you get a ceasefire, you must accept it so that bullets stop flying and your people stop dying,” Trump says. Yet, he ignores the fact that a ceasefire without guarantees is merely an opportunity for Russia to regroup and strike again.

6. Dominance tactics

Trump constantly interrupts Zelensky, cutting him off: “No, no, you’ve already said enough,” and “You’re not in a position to dictate to us.” This is deliberate psychological pressure designed to establish a hierarchy in which Zelensky is the subordinate.

7. Forcing capitulation under the guise of ‘diplomacy’

Vance asserts that “the path to peace lies through diplomacy.” This is a classic strategy where the aggressor is given the opportunity to continue their aggression unchallenged.

8. Projection and distortion of reality

Trump declares: “You are playing with the lives of millions of people.” Yet, in reality, it is he who is doing exactly that—shifting responsibility onto Zelensky.

9. Creating the illusion that Ukraine ‘owes’ the US

Yes, the US is assisting Ukraine, but presenting this aid as “you must obey, or you will receive nothing” is not a partnership—it is financial and military coercion.

10. Undermining Ukraine’s resistance

Trump states that “if it weren’t for our weapons, this war would have ended in two weeks.” This is an attempt to erase Ukraine’s achievements and portray its efforts as entirely dependent on US support.

Conclusion

Trump and his team employed the full spectrum of abusive tactics: gaslighting, victim-blaming, coercion into gratitude, and manipulation of the concepts of peace and diplomacy. This was not a negotiation—it was an attempt to force Zelensky into accepting terms beneficial to the US but potentially fatal for Ukraine.

[aanev]

I completely agree with the last two comments. Furthermore, it appears that after this meeting, the NPT is effectively obsolete. I would expect countries near a potential aggressor - such as Poland and Romania for exampe - to initiate their own nuclear programs.

[Cono Este]

Say what you want. Zelensky came for billions, hundreds of billions, and he walked, like they walked last week, in Kyiv. from the deal. And he said no ceasefire.


You guys can follow Zelensky if he’s your new president. But you go with out satellites, and without star link.


You might want to put your personal feelings aside, and urge Ukraine to take the deal.

[mcski]

I completely agree with the last two comments. Furthermore, it appears that after this meeting, the NPT is effectively obsolete. I would expect countries near a potential aggressor - such as Poland and Romania for exampe - to initiate their own nuclear programs.

This has clearly clearly demonstrated to any country having doubts, that giving up your nukes is a really bad idea and that if you have any chance of acquiring them, you should

[banzai]

Hey Cono, look on the bright side. Now you can give 'your' satellites and starlink to Putin. I hear he's got some minerals in return.

[xyz]

I think it’s time for an election in Ukraine. Let’s see if the people stand with Zelenskys forever meat grinder. Anybody with a brain knows they can’t win. Stop the fighting. Russia won. It happens.


Sent from my iPad using TGR Forums

[m2711c]

Nobody gives a fuck what you think.

[JimmyCarter]

[emoji638]][emoji640][emoji639]][emoji638][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]]][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]][emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji638][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]]]]Hey Cono, look on the bright side. Now you can give 'your' satellites and starlink to Putin. I hear he's got some minerals in return.

As if it’s not going to happen.

“We did what was best for the country’s return on investment, which is why Truth Social will now become the sole importer of rare earth minerals from Russia”, although he’d continue to call them “raw earth” minerals because he’s a fucking retard

[J. Barron DeJong]

I think it’s time for an election in Ukraine. Let’s see if the people stand with Zelenskys forever meat grinder. Anybody with a brain knows they can’t win. Stop the fighting. Russia won. It happens. Sent from my iPad using TGR Forums

The Ukrainian constitution FORBIDS ELECTIONS DURING TIMES OF WAR, dumbfuck.

[RTsucks]

You really have to be a special kind of stupid to call this zelenskys war or blame it on Pelosi. Makes a monkey who knows sign language look like Shakespeare combined with Einstein. Such a deep dark pit of stupid that you would rather go to the bottom of the ocean in the titan submersible wreckage taped back together than try to understand what in gods name the idiot is saying. Just an unfathomable abyss of stupification.

"Pelosi, mines, satellites and you should be in prison stripes. I told you so, you twat." - Cono Este

[Bunion 2020]

You guys can follow Zelensky if he’s your new president.

I accept your offer, We get Z and Trump can go to Russia.

[TBS]

From NY Times today

The president of the European Union, Ursula von der Leyen, emerged from a summit of European leaders in London on Sunday to call for a “surge in defense” by their countries. She said that the E.U. would present a plan to do that on Thursday. Europe, she said, will fortify Ukraine with economic and military aid, with a goal of turning the country into “a steel porcupine that is indigestible for potential invaders.”

[406]

^^^sure hope so. EU should use the frozen assets to jump start their defense industry, would be a good much needed economic catalyst.

[Cono Este]

It’s working!

[RTsucks]

And it’s all Pelosi's fault. If I hadn't made her bring Zelensky into the impeachment Trump would have never made such a damn fool of America. Brilliant work by Trump to force me to do that to Nancy. The fucking vision that guy has. Amazing.

"It's working, you twat" - Cono Este

[MagnificentUnicorn]

[emoji638]][emoji640][emoji639]][emoji638][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]]][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji639]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]]][emoji639]]It’s working!

Your viagra?

[jackstraw]

Yeah, they should just give up and let Russia take over their land. I mean shit, when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor our Navy was decimated and thousands were killed, I don't know why we just didn't give up then instead of fighting for years after.

[KQ]

Trump & Vance’s Power Play Backfires—Weakness Exposed

The White House’s coordinated ambush on Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy was a staged humiliation designed to make him appear ungrateful and unworthy. It was also a thin smokescreen for Trump and Vance’s weakness and subservience to Putin.
On Friday, Trump and Vance berated Zelenskyy in unison and sought to give Americans a negative perception of him. This calculated manipulation of power dynamics was intended to diminish Zelenskyy while positioning Trump and Vance as the disappointed masters of Ukraine’s fate.
But this was a staged drama. Trump and Vance openly provoked Zelenskyy and manufactured their own indignation.
Interestingly, a Russian politician predicted the meeting’s outcome a day earlier. From a Daily Beast story by Julia Davis:

One day earlier, Zelensky’s Oval Office ambush was predicted by State Duma member Oleg Morozov on 60

Minutes, a state TV show. Morozov said that the meeting would be a lesson in humiliation, designed to condition Zelensky to capitulate to the United States—and later to Russia.

The lawmaker said that the Ukrainian president was flying to America “to sign an act of capitulation,” referring to the rare earth mineral deal Trump was determined to get as a “payback” for previous aid to Ukraine. Describing Trump as Zelensky’s “Daddy,” Morozov predicted, “They will rub his nose into everything, like a messy puppy... Then he will sign whatever he is told to sign.” Host Evgeny Popov chimed in, “But first, Daddy will flog him.”

Read more here:

https://www.theframelab.org/trump-va...KkiVftGGFpWn5Q

[MultiVerse]

Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov said today the Trump administration’s foreign policy “largely coincides with our vision.”

There were a few people here who bristled at the idea of being accurately identified as Putin supporters, but at this point MAGA et al. & Putin are largely aligned

[mcski]

Yeah, they should just give up and let Russia take over their land. I mean shit, when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor our Navy was decimated and thousands were killed, I don't know why we just didn't give up then instead of fighting for years after.

It was over as soon as the Germans bombed it

[JimmyCarter]

https://substack.com/@mikebrock/p-158185577

Here we witnessed the President and Vice President of the United States, supposed leaders of the free world, berating and belittling the leader of a sovereign nation fighting for its very survival. This wasn't just a breach of decorum; it was a repudiation of the principles that have underpinned global stability for generations. In that moment, the mask slipped, revealing the true face of a leadership so divorced from reality, so consumed by its own narratives, that it can no longer distinguish between allies and adversaries, between democracy and authoritarianism.

But what makes this moment truly chilling is not just the behavior of these particular individuals. It's the realization that this event is the logical endpoint of the ideas we've been discussing. This is what happens when Yarvin's neoreactionary thought infects the highest levels of government. This is the real-world consequence of treating democracy as an outdated operating system, of viewing international relations as nothing more than a game of power to be won by the most ruthless player.