Student Loan Forgiveness

[Todd Zander]

If I time this right I can apply for forgiveness (whopping $4k) and have the divorce house sale settlement pay it off while its in administrative forbearance and pocket the 4k refund that will be given back to payments while its on forbearance.

[AdironRider]

First venture in this thread so apologies if this has been covered or if the question below is not really in line with the tone of the thread...

Wifey has been working for a not for profit for ages and recently hit her 120. Then number of payments is showing on both the Fed and loan servicer's website (Mohela). Her payments are certified and her PSLF form was sent in November 2023 I believe. Radio silence since, as expected. She wasn't paying much attention to it since at this point there are no clear timelines on when the loans zero out, and it's just a waiting game. Work's been getting progressively worse for her and she's been looking casually for a potential opportunity, and sure enough it came. She found the offer on LinkedIn Thursday, applied that afternoon, chatted with the gal she'd be replacing Friday afternoon, had an 8AM interview Sat (!!), very strong offer Sat at 3PM, and is shadowing her new boss today with expectation of signing the contract before the end of the day. It is very much a for profit business.

So here's the actual deal. There is some serious lack of clarity on the requirements for forgiveness after the 120 payments are in. The language of the PSLF form and on the Fed's website makes it clear that you have to remain with your not for profit employer until you apply for forgiveness. As in when your 120 payments have been certified and you've sent the request. That suggests the second your request for forgiveness is in and your payments are certified you can leave.
But, there are other portions of the Fed's website that state you need to remain with the employer until the loans are actually zeroed out. The loan servicer agrees, and says they check.

Make a big difference for Ms Boissal, she either quits her job to start her dream gig 3 days a week OR she keeps 2 full time jobs for an unknown period of time and instead of being miserable at 1 job she gets to be miserable a 1 job while getting worked at another. She'll do it too, she's fearless and wants out of her old real bad and into the new one. She's already made a ton of arrangements for that, trading shifts, etc... The oracles of reddit expect a wave of loan forgiveness in the next few days, one in March, more or less monthly. Recent waves include people who submitted their forms 2 months ago, and others 8 months back.

Anyone with actual real life input or real knowledge about this? The internet is as opinionated as ever with about 75% thinking she can leave her current job. Given that it's at least a $200k mistake if we fuck this up, I'd rather not trust a bunch of dogmatic redditors.

I don't have direct experience, but the program stipulates you must hit 120 months and be currently working for an eligible employer. https://studentaid.gov/manage-loans/...ing-employment

Given you haven't had the loan forgiven yet, I think she is taking a rather large risk. Notably, I think your wife is pulling a move that goes against the intended purpose of the program. Getting forgiveness and then immediately bouncing to higher paid greener pastures. If that juice is worth the squeeze, she should pay her debts like everyone else.

[Self Jupiter]

Notably, I think your wife is pulling a move that goes against the intended purpose of the program. Getting forgiveness and then immediately bouncing to higher paid greener pastures. If that juice is worth the squeeze, she should pay her debts like everyone else.

Excuse me? Here, let me tell my wife that her 10 years of public service wasn’t worthy of this program’s intentions and she should continue doing this selfless work forever. Maybe I misread what you’re saying here?

Congrats to Mrs Boissal! Mrs Jupiter hits the ten year mark in a couple months and she is absolutely stoked about it.

[AdironRider]

Come on man, you can't honestly believe the intention of the program was for people to hit the 120 month mark then immediately bounce and go to the private sector, notably before the forgiveness check is even written.

That may or may not mean she gets it, but shit like this what tanks public support for these programs.

[summit]

Come on man, you can't honestly believe the intention of the program was for people to hit the 120 month mark then immediately bounce and go to the private sector, notably before the forgiveness check is even written.

That is EXACTLY the intent. If it wasn't, then the terms would have been different.

[AdironRider]

No, these programs were sold to help promote careers in teaching, non-profits, and govt work, not bide your time then go get paid. 10 years isn't exactly what most would consider a career.

Even the ABA states this: "enables law school graduates and other professionals to embark upon, and remain in, less remunerative public service careers by offering partial student loan forgiveness for a service commitment of ten years" when advocating for the program.

Emphasis added.

https://www.americanbar.org/advocacy...%20ten%20years.

[summit]

No, these programs were sold to help promote careers in teaching, non-profits, and govt work, not bide your time then go get paid. 10 years isn't exactly what most would consider a career.

Even the ABA states this: "enables law school graduates and other professionals to embark upon, and remain in, less remunerative public service careers by offering partial student loan forgiveness for a service commitment of ten years"

Emphasis added.

"enables... to remain" not requires. Enables because if people then choose, they are not debt motivated to leave. But they are not indentured.

10 years of service, then some will choose that, and others won't. And that is a win.

If the expectation was all remain in past ten years, then make the terms say so.

People will do exactly what you incentivize them to do. That is the entire basis of why our mixed free market capitalistic system works so well and why marxism/leninism and socialism failed miserably to compete.

[AdironRider]

Hey go get paid for all I care, but don't be surprised when public support for this program grenades. Notably when all the advocacy for the program was selling that no no no, these people are doing this for noble reasons and we should help them. Short term win, long term loss.

Doesn't change my advice she should probably just wait to get the loan forgiven first. That is literally spelled out in the program and at best, she is hoping for a technicality. I can't believe she would lose this offer by needing to take a month or so for shit to work out if Danno's timeline is similar and in any way relevant.

[summit]

4 years of service in the military earns GI Bill tuition coverage.
Attending a 4 military service academy obligates 5 years of additional service. Some stay in longer.
Attending Med School in the military is an 8 year service requirement. Some stay in longer.

Haven't seen support for those "grenade."

10 years of a lower paying job with a benefit to society reimbursed by society covering some education debt is a good deal for society.

[skaredshtles]

4 years of service in the military earns GI Bill tuition coverage.
Attending a 4 military service academy obligates 5 years of additional service. Some stay in longer.
Attending Med School in the military is an 8 year service requirement. Some stay in longer.

Haven't seen support for those "grenade."

10 years of a lower paying job with a benefit to society reimbursed by society covering some education debt is a good deal for society.

You should stop arguing with AR - he's being a contrary cunt on purpose. And you know it.

[AdironRider]

Well I would argue Ms Boissal wasn't exactly putting her life on the line, and she also wasn't making like 28k or whatever an E1 makes as a Marine or Army recruit, so not exactly apples to apples comparisons in terms of why people support those individual programs.

And say I'm being contrary all you want, but not even a majority of the country (47%) supports forgiving 20k, let alone the self proclaimed 200k mentioned here.

https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/support-...ferent-amounts

[Supermoon]

Payment for ten years of public service seems fair to me. It’s better than the people who go straight away to making a ton of money.

I’m sure Ms Boissal gave as much back to the community as she’s getting in relief, and made less money doing it.

Some of y’all will find any excuse to be pissy about this.

[Boissal]

I don't have direct experience, but the program stipulates you must hit 120 months and be currently working for an eligible employer. https://studentaid.gov/manage-loans/...ing-employment

Given you haven't had the loan forgiven yet, I think she is taking a rather large risk. Notably, I think your wife is pulling a move that goes against the intended purpose of the program. Getting forgiveness and then immediately bouncing to higher paid greener pastures. If that juice is worth the squeeze, she should pay her debts like everyone else.

The language from the link you posted states "Important: You must still be working for a qualifying employer at the time you submit your form for forgiveness."
At the time you submit the form, not at the time the loans get zeroed out, which is anywhere from 2 to 8 months later based on internet timelines (lots of people tracking that stuff to try and predict when their loans might go away). That's the confusing language. That's also the text of the law, and by its most direct interpretation it seems to mean that once the signed form is received you're good to bail. Lots of disagreement on that front though.

Regarding the greener pastures, it's not about the money. She's be taking a pay cut, and not an insignificant one. Her current gig pays very well because it's brutal. Half her shifts are 12-hour nights, a bunch are 24 hours, and there are shitty 3 to 11pm swing shift. The schedule is on a 6 week cycle so she can't get into a rythm, and the work itself is taxing. She's been there 8 years, has learned the bulk of what she can learn, her team is coming apart at the seams, she's tired of getting spat on/screamed at/hit by meth heads, or trying to save the occasional child who got hit by a drunk driver at 11am on a Tuesday or toddler who got bit on the head by a pitbull (both examples from the past couple months).
The greener pasture is a 3-day a week steady schedule in elective surgery. Less $ but less stress, opportunities to learn a new skillset, more time with our baby.

Edit to address this:

Well I would argue Ms Boissal wasn't exactly putting her life on the line

Clearly not as much as most who go into the military, but more than some. Couple buddies of mine got med school paid for by the AF, they were never exposed to any danger greater than being around a full unit of meatheads joking around while "deployed" somewhere in the US,
There's always a cop present just outside of the trauma bay these days, and they're not exactly twiddling their thumbs. They routinely deal with belligerent drunks or aggressive meth heads who will fight despite mangled limbs. These people get vicious, and usually end up with 2 people restraining them while a 3rd pumps them full of K before intubating them for everyone's safety. When Ms Boissal was around 8 months pregnant she got kicked in the belly hard enough that she ate shit into a crash cart. She got up, finished dealing with dude, then noticed she was bleeding, gave herself an ultrasound then had a meltdown. Good thing she was already in the hospital so OB could see her right away and confirm all was well with the babe. That was 6 hours into a 24 hour shift, which she finished it. She had a fucking bruise on her belly when she got home.

Yeah, it's not getting shot at in Iraq, and she wasn't getting paid $20k a year. She's not exactly taking advantage of the system either...

[Conundrum]

If they want them to stay longer, the requirement should be longer.

[Brock Landers]

Congrats to the wife…hope it comes around quickly! Could she use vacation days or something else to extend her current employment? Even go part time?

[Boissal]

Congrats to the wife…hope it comes around quickly! Could she use vacation days or something else to extend her current employment? Even go part time?

She had asked to go to 0.75 FTE a while back, well before this job came into the picture. That still qualifies as full time. They're losing people left and right and are adding positions since they're chronically short staffed so she's not sure it will work out. She'll work both jobs, for months if she has to, she's tough and stubborn as a mule.
Even if she found out today that she can walk away with no consequences on her loans, she'd still give them a minimum of 2 months notice and stay PRN after that to help her team. She's been agonizing about leaving and making their lives harder for a while now...
What she really need is to know when things will be finalized. She'll deal with whatever shit comes her way, it would be easier if she knew for how long though. The uncertainty is the rough part.

[Danno]

Boissal, fwiw when I submitted the form I was employed in the public service job, and when my loan was forgiven there was no additional verification that I was STILL employed in public service in order for the loan to be forgiven (I was, but nobody was checking). If she submitted the form and they validate the 120 months I think she's good to go. But ymmv of course.

[Boissal]

Boissal, fwiw when I submitted the form I was employed in the public service job, and when my loan was forgiven there was no additional verification that I was STILL employed in public service in order for the loan to be forgiven (I was, but nobody was checking). If she submitted the form and they validate the 120 months I think she's good to go. But ymmv of course.

Thanks bud, seems like it's very much on a case by case basis, I know of at least 1 person who claims their employer was contacted to confirm they were still there. No idea if it's true, and I don't think we're willing to gamble... Oh well, it means I'm gonna be skiing fewer days this winter and bitch 3x as more as usual. Because clearly I'm the one suffering the most here!

[Brock Landers]

Thanks bud, seems like it's very much on a case by case basis, I know of at least 1 person who claims their employer was contacted to confirm they were still there. No idea if it's true, and I don't think we're willing to gamble... Oh well, it means I'm gonna be skiing fewer days this winter and bitch 3x as more as usual. Because clearly I'm the one suffering the most here!

Just drop in a few more bitch tickets and it’s all good! See if bobmc has any left!

[Boissal]

Just drop in a few more bitch tickets and it’s all good! See if bobmc has any left!

I've already exceed my quota this year, I think I posted 4 pics in the thread and ranted at least 15 times...

Edit: well that was timely



Updated sometime this morning. A couple overpayments.

[Bunion 2020]

DGAF, anyone who manages to get loan relief deserves it AFAIAC. And the fucknutz bitching about it had no problem accepting PPP loans or Covid relief grants.

[John_B]

Edit: well that was timely



Updated sometime this morning. A couple overpayments.

Hopefully Mrs. B has her resignation notice in today. Congrats!

[Danno]

FKNA! Congrats!

[skaredshtles]

That's great news, Boissal! Go buy yourselves some fancy cheese to celebrate!!

[Brock Landers]

+2000 bucks! Score!