ON3P SKIS Discussion

[auvgeek]

For the record, I'm definitely not saying that people don't enjoy the narrower BG shape. Sounds like it works for you guys, and that's awesome!

[auvgeek]

What does a stiff core do to the ski?

It makes it stiffer.

But in all seriousness, the stiffer core often makes a ski better in chop because the shovel doesn't fold as much at higher speeds. But it certainly won't make a ski feel longer. What's your height and weight? What specifically concerns you about the 186 in chop?

A stiffer core might be what you want ... or it might not.

The Jeffrey, at the end of the day, is a fairly progressively mounted, jibby, all mountain ski. It much prefers to pop around in chop from a neutral stance than plow through it from a driving stance. I mention this because sometimes a stiffer core can be more punishing when you get off balance. So if your concern with the 186 is the balance point is too small in chop, then stiffer might actually exacerbate that. If your concern is that the shovels fold too easily in chop and you want the 191 because there's simply more ski available for shock absorption, then yeah a stiffer core could improve the 186 for you.

[PeachesNCream]

It makes it stiffer.

But in all seriousness, the stiffer core often makes a ski better in chop because the shovel doesn't fold as much at higher speeds. But it certainly won't make a ski feel longer. What's your height and weight?
A stiffer core might be what you want ... or it might not.

The Jeffrey, at the end of the day, is a fairly progressively mounted, jibby, all mountain ski. It much prefers to pop around in chop from a neutral stance than plow through it from a driving stance. I mention this because sometimes a stiffer core can be more punishing when you get off balance. So if your concern with the 186 is the balance point is too small in chop, then stiffer might actually exacerbate that. If your concern is that the shovels fold too easily in chop and you want the 191 because there's simply more ski available for shock absorption, then yeah a stiffer core could improve the 186 for you.

Very helpful explanation. I'm 6'3, 195 neked. I'm probably in a tricky spot because I love the poppy-ness of Jeffery for hitting side hits and whatnot but when I'm skiing chop I prefer to go through the chop vs pop around. I would say a folding tip is holding me back more in chop more than the balance point being too small. Sounds like a stiffer core could be the ticket

[auvgeek]

Very helpful explanation. I'm 6'3, 195 neked. I'm probably in a tricky spot because I love the poppy-ness of Jeffery for hitting side hits and whatnot but when I'm skiing chop I prefer to go through the chop vs pop around. I would say a folding tip is holding me back more in chop more than the balance point being too small. Sounds like a stiffer core could be the ticket

Dude, at your size I'd be on the 191 no question. I'm on the stiff 186 Jeff 110, but you've got 4" and 30# on me.

[mattyTru]

What does a stiff core do to the ski?

I'm sure this has been answered but 527 pages is too many to look through... what properties does ON3P change in the ski if you order the "stiff" layup?

[PeachesNCream]

Dude, at your size I'd be on the 191 no question. I'm on the stiff 186 Jeff 110, but you've got 4" and 30# on me.

Yeah, I get that. Jeffs108 are my favorite ski. My gripes are not great on groomers, not great in tight trees and I spend quite a bit in those the tight trees. I can get over the groomer performance but with the amount of time I spend in tight trees I was thinking about how to improve that without sacrificing too much and since a 186 on3p is like a 188 for other companies, I thought it was worth a thought

[auvgeek]

I'm sure this has been answered but 527 pages is too many to look through... what properties does ON3P change in the ski if you order the "stiff" layup?

The thickness of the core. Since ON3P mills all their cores in-house, they can do this now. They no longer run different glass or carbon options. I'm told they've refined the process a lot, and the differences in stiffness options are more subtle than they used to be.

The woodgrain topheet also adds stiffness. Typically ON3P uses the "soft" core thickness with wood grain topsheets to get stock stiffness, but you can also get a stiff layup by telling Scott you want the normal core thickness and woodgrain topsheet.

I have no idea about the difference in weight or ski feel between different core thicknesses, woodgrain topsheets, etc. So I have no idea if a thicker core + nylon topsheet is basically the same weight and feel as the normal core + woodgrain or not. (Obviously, the woodgrain topsheet is expensive not necessarily related to your question, but just throwing it out there.)

Yeah, I get that. Jeffs108 are my favorite ski. My gripes are not great on groomers, not great in tight trees and I spend quite a bit in those the tight trees. I can get over the groomer performance but with the amount of time I spend in tight trees I was thinking about how to improve that without sacrificing too much and since a 186 on3p is like a 188 for other companies, I thought it was worth a thought

Worth a shot for sure. Where do you ski?

[PeachesNCream]

Worth a shot for sure. Where do you ski?

Most of the time in the north idaho resorts like schweitzer, other time is spent traveling. Come to think of it, maybe I should just spend less time in tight trees, problem solved.

[EWG]

Most of the time in the north idaho resorts like schweitzer, other time is spent traveling. Come to think of it, maybe I should just spend less time in tight trees, problem solved.

Haha no way, the Jeffs are awesome in tight stuff - keep skiing it! I'm a little lighter and shorter than you and I'm on 108 186s. I'm starting to wonder what longer would feel like.

Having said that, while if you look downthread you'll see I'm thinking of adding some Woodsman for a bit more of a carver than the Jeffs, I have never had an issue with the Jeffs busting crud. They have to be kind of surfed upright/floated through it, not cranked through with a shit-ton of pressure on the shins. If you do the latter they don't skim enough. I think the woods might be more of a crud buster.

[awh311]

I have 102's,110tours,and 116's. The steeple 102 with dynafits is still damp af even with the simple dynafits , skis thru chop like a champ, floats thru pow like a 102 waist shouldnt be capable of, and rails a groomer when tipped on edge. I dream of a bg 102 tour to put my dfit sl 2.o's on so i can put cast/shift/marker hybrid thingy on my 102 steeples. Im tempted by a woodsman 102 tour but i really want a bg 102 tour, especially after a great couple days on my new bg 110 tours

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This is pure truth. That steeple 102 is an unbelievably versatile ski. Money on basically anything besides pure ice and it even holds an edge on that well enough. If that ski came back out with today’s tour layup. Oh my. One can dream.

[ASmileyFace]

This is pure truth. That steeple 102 is an unbelievably versatile ski. Money on basically anything besides pure ice and it even holds an edge on that well enough. If that ski came back out with today’s tour layup. Oh my. One can dream.

Usually it's just Grinch and I pimping the Steeple 102 so I'm glad to see someone else around here love it. It's still my favorite touring ski I've ever had. I'd love to see that same ski in the new layup.

[on3pbg]

Usually it's just Grinch and I pimping the Steeple 102 so I'm glad to see someone else around here love it. It's still my favorite touring ski I've ever had. I'd love to see that same ski in the new layup.

I’m honestly surprised there wasn’t more of the cult following for the Steeples like it is the BG, since it’s essentially the same ski but for touring…..I would definitely support another run of those steeples again then.

If my ASYMs weren’t such units, I would actually take them on full days of touring where I am. It would shine 8/10 times.


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[ApexSkua]

Wren 102 Ti or Woodsman 102 as a west coast resort DD?

[Reformed]

I’m honestly surprised there wasn’t more of the cult following for the Steeples like it is the BG, since it’s essentially the same ski but for touring…..I would definitely support another run of those steeples again then.

If my ASYMs weren’t such units, I would actually take them on full days of touring where I am. It would shine 8/10 times.


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If you read back through this thread it seems most people who got on any of the Steeples liked them well enough - self included. I think the two things that kept the Steeples from being out and out homeruns/more popular were the weight and a bit of uncertainty around the flex being softer than the regular ON3P layup of the day. I see the current BG Tours as the obvious evolution of the Steeples. If anyone really wants a Steeple the current 50/50 build for the BG/BG110 is probably pretty close. Nothing like the Steeple 102 in the current line up though...
All of this has me starting to think that my Steeple 108s could be an awesome "don't know what I'm going to get/travel ski" with an alpine binding mounted to them. I'd look to replace them in the touring slot with the current BG110 Tour. Anyone been on the previous generation skinny Billy/Steeple 108 and the current BG110? I'd love to retain most of the attributes of my Steeple 108s with a few hundred grams less weight.

[awh311]

If you read back through this thread it seems most people who got on any of the Steeples liked them well enough - self included. I think the two things that kept the Steeples from being out and out homeruns/more popular were the weight and a bit of uncertainty around the flex being softer than the regular ON3P layup of the day. I see the current BG Tours as the obvious evolution of the Steeples. If anyone really wants a Steeple the current 50/50 build for the BG/BG110 is probably pretty close. Nothing like the Steeple 102 in the current line up though...
All of this has me starting to think that my Steeple 108s could be an awesome "don't know what I'm going to get/travel ski" with an alpine binding mounted to them. I'd look to replace them in the touring slot with the current BG110 Tour. Anyone been on the previous generation skinny Billy/Steeple 108 and the current BG110? I'd love to retain most of the attributes of my Steeple 108s with a few hundred grams less weight.

For a touring ski it’s tough to justify the weight when you pick it up but then you ski it and it’s all worth it. The 102 was a really underrated ski. There definitely is a cult following especially for those 102s but there were a lot fewer made and I think the market at the time was demanding wider waists which is why they went to the 108 / 116 steeples in subsequent years. Shame though give how versatile that ski is. From email exchanges I’ve had it seems like there just isn’t enough market for a 100ish mm waist ski with res.

[Tailwind]

I'm looking at a used pair of Wren 102 Ti's in a 189 with a stiff core. My daily driver for the past few years has been a Wren 114 in 189.

I've been stoked on the 114 and while it carves great, I'm curious about the 102 as I think they'll be a little better when it hasn't snowed in a week.

Does anyone know how much stiffer the 'stiff' core is on the 102? I'm only 160lbs but I've had no issues with the flex on the 114, so I'm tempted to think I'd be fine on a still 102 (which I assume is softer than the 114 stock).

[sb]

I need a 192 BG 110 tour but with the original top sheet.

I want to put shifts on it and ski it with the Tecnica zero G boots.

Am I dirty?

[Marko888]

Wren 102 Ti or Woodsman 102 as a west coast resort DD?

I own both but have to be careful what I say as I’ve only got a day on the Wrens and 10+ on the Woodsman. ‘21 182 Woodsman 102, current 184 Wren 102ti.

My Woodsman was overly detuned and too loose for me, but once I had the edges sharpened up, I’ve really gelled with the ski. It’s quite easy to ski, and truly feels loose when I want, and drivable on edge when I want, including on hard pack snow (not ice) Balance is a fair bit friendlier than my OG Woodsman 108 for “Directional” me…Tails are softer and don’t feel long.

The Wren feels like quite a bit more ski, with more Charge! in its nature. The day I had on it was at Lake Louise with variable hard pack and chuff on crust… it kicked my ass. In more consistent softer snow I think I’ll be fine on it.

My 2c: The stronger, more directional skier you are, the more Wren you would be. It’ll probably be better if you see lots of hardpack too. The Woodsman seems more friendly and versatile. It’s my Big White daily and has been perfect in this role. I’m an average older skier.

[Bandit Man]

Checking in to say my 2014 186 BG’s are still the best tree ski ever. Also…bomber. Hit lots of stumps and rocks today and bases and edges are still looking great.

[SkiLyft]

All goats were out today in the INW
193 - 172 - 189



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[eSock]

All goats were out today in the INW
193 - 172 - 189



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I'm bringing my goats to schweitzer next week, maybe they can join the flock [emoji23]

[on3pbg]

All goats were out today in the INW
193 - 172 - 189



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Let me buy your SGs Hahahah


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[Going Coastal]

Factory Finds restocked on the site.

[MoeSnow]

I get along with my new Jeffs everywhere except groomers. When I try laying an edge down the ski just kinda... wanders around? Such a weird sensation that hasn't happened to me with other skis.

Where do I put pressure in my boots and my edges when trying to lay down an edge in harder conditions? Is it a tune issue? These are my first pairs of progressively mounted skis and I'm loving them, but I'm kind of frustrated by the weird wandering ski experience.

[EWG]

I get along with my new Jeffs everywhere except groomers. When I try laying an edge down the ski just kinda... wanders around? Such a weird sensation that hasn't happened to me with other skis.

Where do I put pressure in my boots and my edges when trying to lay down an edge in harder conditions? Is it a tune issue? These are my first pairs of progressively mounted skis and I'm loving them, but I'm kind of frustrated by the weird wandering ski experience.

With skis that are made to edge and crank, you just kinda press your shins hard into the front of the boot, articulate your ankle, and the ski takes care of the rest. With the Jeffs you have to almost set the ski edge down and then pressure your whole foot from the ball to the heel on the edging side. Feel your edge dig in, then sit on that. As long as your weight stays right on top of your entire foot it'll carve, not wander. Get your weight too far forward and it gets sloppy.

Once you figure it out you can crank the shit out of them, and you actually can press hard on your shins, but you need heel pressure at the same time. It's really sweet to absolute crank an edged turn with them, then pop out of it so deweighted that you float a little onto the opposite side, then set them down right into the edge of the opposite turn, back and forth.

But I still want a pair of Woods for groomer days. Jeffs are not made to rip carved turns.