Student Loan Forgiveness

[californiagrown]

Who told you paying off your loans early/on time versus pursuing some other strategy was a wise financial move? Why is assumed that this is the correct choice?

Your metaphor assumes a binary choice of loan payoff strategies, which is not at all what is available in reality.

Right, and a government check to pay off student loans isnt an ice cream cone. And there are no chores to be done, or a set of brothers.

Its a gross simplification of a complex situation to help explain why people feel an emotion about the situation. that really had to be explained to you?

[oldnew_guy]

Right, and a government check to pay off student loans isnt an ice cream cone. And there are no chores to be done, or a set of brothers.

Its a gross simplification of a complex situation to help explain why people feel an emotion about the situation. that really had to be explained to you?

My point is that the bitterness here appears to often be coming from a place of “I made the ‘correct’ financial decision and now someone else appears to have made a different decision and is reaping the rewards I didn’t” and that somehow they didn’t do any work, didn’t pay any money, didn’t make sacrifices, have other life circumstances or take other risks, they are just lazy and undisciplined and now are getting an ice cream cone for doing nothing.

It’s a dumb oversimplification and a poor generalization of people getting student debt relief.

I get the emotional reaction. I don’t agree, but I get how you could feel that way. Maybe you can put yourselves in the shoes of people who are getting relief and are being characterized as the lazy, undisciplined, deadbeat brother.

[schuss]

It's much more ego-embiggening to believe you are the product of only your own work and intellect, when the reality is it's a combination of factors wholly outside of your control and a bunch of luck.
Does your intellect, work ethic and decision making have an influence? Absolutely. Is it solely the product of you? No, not by a longshot, but people sure do get mad when you point it out.

[MultiVerse]

Characterizing people getting relief as lazy, undisciplined, deadbeats is also inaccurate because forgiveness benefits top decile high achieving wage earners with larger loan balances, like doctors and lawyers, three times as much as lower wage earners combined.

A lot of the discussion ignores the fact that significant targeted debt forgiveness already exists in the United States for lower income wage earners. Enrolling people in income-driven repayment plans is much less expensive and much more progressive policy.

[californiagrown]

My point is that the bitterness here appears to often be coming from a place of “I made the ‘correct’ financial decision and now someone else appears to have made a different decision and is reaping the rewards I didn’t”


I get the emotional reaction. I don’t agree, but I get how you could feel that way.

The bitterness is regarding the rules changing after being agreed to and rendering many people's sacrifices in time, money and life lived wasted/unneeded. Its bitterness at ones own loss because they chose to play by the rules. Its very understandable IMO.

Thats all.

[dunfree]

The bitterness is regarding the rules changing after being agreed to and rendering many people's sacrifices in time, money and life lived wasted/unneeded. Its bitterness at ones own loss because they chose to play by the rules. Its very understandable IMO.

Thats all.

jesus fucking Christ do you never tire of sucking your own dick?

its $10k. Or $20k. Money that can make a difference and makes lives better, but this isn’t the end of the world. I paid off $20k or whatever of undergrad debt early. It would have been nice to have a couple hundred $ each month to spend skiing or beer (because that’s where I’d have spent it), but it wasn’t the end of the world.


and the dark humor of course is the main reason to pay off student loan debt before other types is it’s non dischargeable.

[Conundrum]

Edit-I was responding to Californiagrown.

Meh, rules-schmules. People made the "right" choices for their credit score and personal fulfillment of being done with their student loans. The risk takers seemed to win this one. I made the "right" choice for me to pay mine off early well before I was earning much disposable and it was a grind. I feel good about that. Looks like feeling good about that cost me around $10k. Such is life.

[oldnew_guy]

Characterizing people getting relief as lazy, undisciplined, deadbeats is also inaccurate because forgiveness benefits top decile high achieving wage earners with larger loan balances, like doctors and lawyers, three times as much as lower wage earners combined.

A lot of the discussion ignores the fact that significant targeted debt forgiveness already exists in the United States for lower income wage earners. Enrolling people in income-driven repayment plans is much less expensive and much more progressive policy.

Unless you are very poor, entering into an IDR can easily cost you way more over 20-25 years.

[MultiVerse]

I agree income-driven repayment will cost a bowerer more than repaying debt that is forgiven.

[oldnew_guy]

I agree income-driven repayment will cost a bowerer more than paying nothing.

I mean more than a 10 year repayment.

[MultiVerse]

Yeah, they’re not the best solution for everyone. They work best for people with low incomes. For people with higher incomes there are also things like LRAPs or loan repayment assistance programs.

[californiagrown]

Edit-I was responding to Californiagrown.
I made the "right" choice for me to pay mine off early well before I was earning much disposable and it was a grind.

Same. Its why i empathize with folks being a little bitter about the situation. But to some, saying that, means you also are fervently against the loan forgiveness program.

[MultiVerse]

People also dislike and even hate student loan debt a lot more than other kinds of debt, I did too. There doesn't seem to be a good explanation for why that is?

[Conundrum]

If I take out a car loan, I get to drive the car. If I borrow $25k to get a diploma that maybe opened the door to my first job, it's not quite as tangible. Plus, most of us were told that the path to riches was through college and that is not always the case.

[mcski]

Maybe because it’s inescapable or at least perceived that way since other debt can be rolled into a bankruptcy filing in a worst car scenario?

[Conundrum]

I still think it's the promised ROI is hard to determine and really dependent on the individual and the economy of the day. And five or six figure debt is daunting when it's hard to tie to an asset. These cases are generally children with access to great sums of money without the basis to understand the consequences of large debt and have been told by adults it's one of the only paths available to them to reach their career goals. Guidance counselors can be as guilty in this as anyone.

Not saying that is fact but nor that an education is not an asset.

[SumJongGuy]

Ahem... anybody also got a problem with this?? Or, is this.. "different"??

USDA announces $1 billion debt relief for 36,000 farmers

[rod9301]

I don't have a problem with student loan forgiveness, but
1 it doesn't solve the high tuition problem
2 it was done to help Biden with the midterms

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[Cisco Kid]

You should start a thread, or two.

[SumJongGuy]

2 it was done to help Biden with the midterms

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It was done because he promised he'd try to do it BEFORE he was even President.. It wasn't something they just pulled out of thin air for the midterm momentum.. Now letting pot smokers out of jail/expunging records? Perhaps..

[oldnew_guy]

News at 11 - for first time ever politician does political thing beneficial to politician in advance of election

[Conundrum]

Ahem... anybody also got a problem with this?? Or, is this.. "different"??

USDA announces $1 billion debt relief for 36,000 farmers

If you are truly asking what’s different and not just stirring the pot…

$1B<$400B and farmers produce food which is a basic survival need for most people I know.

I’m sure if you keep digging you can find many other subsidies and debt relief that could be compared.

And if you want a discussion on farm subsidies, I could point you to much larger programs that might actually piss you off as they are not helping the food producers who need the help. But some rich farmers are getting much richer by being on the dole.

[summit]

Amy Barrett blocks a SCOTUS challenge by R repubs to the debt relief and a few hours later a federal district judge blocks a challenge by 6 R led states.

https://www.npr.org/2022/10/20/11303...-court-dismiss

[oldnew_guy]

If you are truly asking what’s different and not just stirring the pot…

$1B<$400B and farmers produce food which is a basic survival need for most people I know.

I’m sure if you keep digging you can find many other subsidies and debt relief that could be compared.

And if you want a discussion on farm subsidies, I could point you to much larger programs that might actually piss you off as they are not helping the food producers who need the help. But some rich farmers are getting much richer by being on the dole.

Yeah, and air traffic controllers make sure your planes don’t crash into each other, teachers educate your kids, engineers make sure basic public sanitation happens and energy flows…..

Moral hazard, will encourage the same behavior that led to the bailout, etc.

[Conundrum]

I guess my point was it was a shitty comparison and there’s plenty of whatabouts that one could use to argue for or against the student loan bailout.