Student Loan Forgiveness

[Supermoon]

Exactly. So how can decreasing borrowing be the fuel of the continued cost increases? It doesn't make any sense

[MultiVerse]

It does make sense and it was covered earlier in this thread:

- Not all age cohorts are created equal. A ton of people were born in 1991 +/- a few years and entered college roughly eighteen years later just in time for the financial crisis.

- Garbage economy raises tuition (states have no money), raises enrollment (outside options are terrible), and depresses earnings after graduation (still-weak labor market).

- Raising tuition really was a better option for governors than cutting Medicaid or K-12 schools. And given the labor market paying the higher tuition made sense for most students.

- The policy error was elsewhere — in letting the recession get so bad.

- So instead of higher education finance, focus policy on more better recession-prevention tools.

In other words, borrowing decreased because the economy improved and because of demographics, not because the rate of college inflation decreased.

[Conundrum]

This will be the third recession of my 15 year career, so a little help wiping out the rest of my loans is going to be really nice.

I’m sure it is nice. Before I say the following I want you to know I really dig your trip report. Cool journey you took there. Truthfully.

Stating things like what I quoted after taking a couple month road trip to watch baseball on a new motorcycle might give some more ire for policies like the debt forgiveness though.

[Supermoon]

I’m sure it is nice. Before I say the following I want you to know I really dig your trip report. Cool journey you took there. Truthfully.

Stating things like what I quoted after taking a couple month road trip to watch baseball on a new motorcycle might give some more ire for policies like the debt forgiveness though.

I mean, I get what you’re saying. It’s not quite as simple as that, though. I have worked for 15 years, paying on my loans, and I’ve been planning and saving for this trip for 7 years. I was also fortunate that I got two years of my college paid for through a scholarship. So my loans were a lot less than they could have been.

I am only saying all of that because I think we focus so much on if individuals “deserve” this instead of whether or not this helps the country as a whole.

We also don’t focus all this attention on people who (used to) deduct their mortgage interest, or people who pay capitol gains instead of income tax in investment income, or any number of other tax incentives we have set up for people. Nobody is asking those over 65 to defend their right to only pay $2,000 out of pocket on prescriptions whether they need it or not.

So yeah, did I “need” my loans forgiven, probably not. Am I going to accept anything I’m eligible for? Absolutely.

[Conundrum]

We’re not talking about those other societal problems though. I thought whataboutism was forbotten upthread. I was trolling.

I would take the forgiveness too if I still had outstanding loans.

[californiagrown]

So yeah, did I “need” my loans forgiven, probably not. Am I going to accept anything I’m eligible for? Absolutely.

You play the game by the rules, and you play to win. I dont see the problem there.


I also understand why there is a very bitter taste in the mouth of folks who sacrificed for years to pay off loans and be financially responsible, only to have the rules of the game retroactively changed to bailout folks who didnt sacrifice or play the game as well. For those folks, there is no moral victory in having gained life skills and character etc... only lost life and time. The thing to focus on in their (my) case is that this bailout will hopefully help the economy as a whole... i.e. the rising tide will raise all boats.

[Supermoon]

I was trolling.

Ha. Fair enough

[::: :::]

we focus so much on if individuals “deserve” this instead of whether or not this helps the country as a whole.

meanwhile a whole swath of the country supported a short term tax cut for middle & low income earners AND a permanent tax cut for high earners

forest | trees

[Danno]

Have you guys solved the student loan forgiveness problem? Just checking.

[californiagrown]

meanwhile a whole swath of the country supported a short term tax cut for middle & low income earners AND a permanent tax cut for high earners

forest | trees

Yeah, but im gonna be a high earner here shortly so its really an investment in my future, while helping my get through the present bump in the road.


Dont many/most staunch republicans think they will or could be high earners? Or already are?

[sb]

Elecshun gimmick in chamber, target recession. Weeeeeeeeee!

[Todd Zander]

Ive only got a small portion of the max amount left but ill still take it, my wife however consolidated all her debt from college years and had already paid off the pell grant loans so is sol there.

At the very least I get a small bump in fico

[Iowagriz]

We had paid off $18k of Fed Loans for daughter earlier this year (March?). She just called the servicer, they will refund/return the payoff to create a balance, then she can do the work for the $10k (which she should qualify for).

We will then send the $8k back to the servicer to payoff the loan. I'll hold the $10k for her as a down-payment on a future car.

We are getting lucky here...we made the girls take out loans for the majority of their education. I promised them x amount only if they graduated. In this case, she went tech school route and the amount of our promise left her debt free. She will now be +$10k (that will likely get spent in the next 6 months on a car).

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[Supermoon]

Nice! Glad they are able to do that for her

[doebedoe]

We had paid off $18k of Fed Loans for daughter earlier this year (March?). She just called the servicer, they will refund/return the payoff to create a balance, then she can do the work for the $10k (which she should qualify for).

We will then send the $8k back to the servicer to payoff the loan. I'll hold the $10k for her as a down-payment on a future car.

We are getting lucky here...we made the girls take out loans for the majority of their education. I promised them x amount only if they graduated. In this case, she went tech school route and the amount of our promise left her debt free. She will now be +$10k (that will likely get spent in the next 6 months on a car).

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Nice Griz. Did you get approval via the above application first or go straight to your servicer?

I paid off 8.7k between March 2020 and when this was announced. Mixture of regular payments and lump sums from my stimulus checks. Hoping to get a little back to you know...throw at the rest of the debt.

[dunfree]

This is good, I for example did not do so and unfortunately now I have problems with the law.

PM rontele spamjong ScottyB

[Iowagriz]

Nice Griz. Did you get approval via the above application first or go straight to your servicer?

She went straight to the servicer and I believe they said, no help until you get a balance back (this the refund).

I'm figuring the worst case is no help and we get dinged a few months of interest for the time it is reopened .

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[schuss]

You play the game by the rules, and you play to win. I dont see the problem there.


I also understand why there is a very bitter taste in the mouth of folks who sacrificed for years to pay off loans and be financially responsible, only to have the rules of the game retroactively changed to bailout folks who didnt sacrifice or play the game as well. For those folks, there is no moral victory in having gained life skills and character etc... only lost life and time. The thing to focus on in their (my) case is that this bailout will hopefully help the economy as a whole... i.e. the rising tide will raise all boats.

I can't understand being bitter about other people getting something good happen. Also the people who spent PPP loans on things other than worker salaries being salty about it. It's one or the other cupcake.

[skaredshtles]

I can't understand being bitter about other people getting something good happen.

Seriously.

We've paid for both our older boys to go to college. Would we have been financially better off if we had made them take out loans and been eligible for this program? Obviously...

But I don't get irritated by other people benefitting from this.

And I get irritated by a LOT of things.

[Conundrum]

I can't understand being bitter about other people getting something good happen.

Looking from both sides, is it being bitter because someone has something good happen or is it being bitter because one pays taxes and sometimes it's tough to see the good that those taxes do for oneself sometimes? Even though it's somewhat clear that society functions better when we all chip in. Cue the whatabouts comments for government spending because it always has to be a comparison. Which is an entire other issue.

I'm not saying either bitter view is a good one, just that this issue isn't as myopic as the forgiveness money appears magically out of nowhere and there will be naysayers. Me, I've moved past this current discussion to whatever the media is telling me I should be angry about.

[californiagrown]

I can't understand being bitter about other people getting something good happen.

Its not being bitter about good things happening to other people. Its being bitter about having needlessly sacrificed and wasted time/money/life.

If you told two 7yr old brothers that they needed to do their chores to get an ice cream treat, and one did their chores and the other didn't, would it be fair to give them both ice cream at the end? Can you understand why the one who did his chores might be bitter?

[schuss]

Looking from both sides, is it being bitter because someone has something good happen or is it being bitter because one pays taxes and sometimes it's tough to see the good that those taxes do for oneself sometimes? Even though it's somewhat clear that society functions better when we all chip in. Cue the whatabouts comments for government spending because it always has to be a comparison. Which is an entire other issue.

I'm not saying either bitter view is a good one, just that this issue isn't as myopic as the forgiveness money appears magically out of nowhere and there will be naysayers. Me, I've moved past this current discussion to whatever the media is telling me I should be angry about.

Governments SHOULD spend money to make their countries more competitive and resilient over the long term. The individual take, while it matters to us as humans, is not really why governments should do things (note I use should here as there's plenty of pants on head self serving bullshit and I'm coming at this from the angle of traditional government function theory). There will always be those who pay in way more than they will ever get in benefit and vice versa, the goal is more "are we better with this?".
The reality in this case is generally yes, especially with the backdrop of modern recessions, housing and education cost crises and other items. This isn't like other forms of debt where you can discharge it and take the hit on credit worthiness, and I don't think it's particularly productive for us to hang an eternal albatross around someones neck because they were misled by their parents or others at the very beginning of their adult life.
I'm one of the people you reference who doesn't get that much benefit out of tax dollars (technically schools for my kids, but on balance private school would be cheaper if fed taxes are baked in). Humans in general are bad about a lot of factors around collective action, collective benefit and how infrastructure and societal goods are important to "quality of life." You mostly just hear people bleating about taxes because of how many "fuck you, got mine" people there are out there. However, listening to those folks is how we end up being Gary, Indiana the nation (sorry garyians, or whatever they're called).

[oldnew_guy]

Its not being bitter about good things happening to other people. Its being bitter about having needlessly sacrificed and wasted time/money/life.

If you told two 7yr old brothers that they needed to do their chores to get an ice cream treat, and one did their chores and the other didn't, would it be fair to give them both ice cream at the end? Can you understand why the one who did his chores might be bitter?

Who told you paying off your loans early/on time versus pursuing some other strategy was a wise financial move? Why is assumed that this is the correct choice?

Your metaphor assumes a binary choice of loan payoff strategies, which is not at all what is available in reality.

[Conundrum]

Governments SHOULD spend money to make their countries more competitive and resilient over the long term. The individual take, while it matters to us as humans, is not really why governments should do things (note I use should here as there's plenty of pants on head self serving bullshit and I'm coming at this from the angle of traditional government function theory). There will always be those who pay in way more than they will ever get in benefit and vice versa, the goal is more "are we better with this?".
The reality in this case is generally yes, especially with the backdrop of modern recessions, housing and education cost crises and other items. This isn't like other forms of debt where you can discharge it and take the hit on credit worthiness, and I don't think it's particularly productive for us to hang an eternal albatross around someones neck because they were misled by their parents or others at the very beginning of their adult life.
I'm one of the people you reference who doesn't get that much benefit out of tax dollars (technically schools for my kids, but on balance private school would be cheaper if fed taxes are baked in). Humans in general are bad about a lot of factors around collective action, collective benefit and how infrastructure and societal goods are important to "quality of life." You mostly just hear people bleating about taxes because of how many "fuck you, got mine" people there are out there. However, listening to those folks is how we end up being Gary, Indiana the nation (sorry garyians, or whatever they're called).

I agree with you. My point was can it at least be recognized why some people don't like it? Some posters keep trying to convince others that it's the worst thing ever while some keep pounding the it's the best drum.

I'm wondering if it is even possible now for someone to say "I don't agree with you but I can see how you would feel that way." Guess not.

[BC.]

We had paid off $18k of Fed Loans for daughter earlier this year (March?). She just called the servicer, they will refund/return the payoff to create a balance, then she can do the work for the $10k (which she should qualify for).

We will then send the $8k back to the servicer to payoff the loan. I'll hold the $10k for her as a down-payment on a future car.

We are getting lucky here...we made the girls take out loans for the majority of their education. I promised them x amount only if they graduated. In this case, she went tech school route and the amount of our promise left her debt free. She will now be +$10k (that will likely get spent in the next 6 months on a car).

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This is me x2……that’s why I was asking all those questions..lol.