Student Loan Forgiveness

[MultiVerse]

It was meant to illustrate the kind of political warfare and rhetoric we can expect to see in the future.

[J. Barron DeJong]

Fair enough, apologies for the obtuse comment. The fact that they have been falling from a peak speaks to Matthew Yglesias' argument and not necessary a larger trend. He's saying a bad economy increased tuition, increased enrollment, and hurt earnings after graduation all because of the Great Recession.

So even though federal expenditures are down that doesn't mean college costs are down. Another way to think about it is when there's another recession per capita federal expenditures will go up even more with more generous subsidies.

Apology accepted. Now if you would just start agreeing with my arguments we’d really be making some progress!

[hatchgreenchile]

In ~40 minutes, I felt this podcast did a great job of unwinding the economic, moral, political and legal viewpoints of this issue:
https://www.theringer.com/2022/8/30/...resident-biden

If this EO was challenged in court, the interviewee wasn't optimistic it would hold up.

[SumJongGuy]

Republicans will want to “Cut off the government dole to universities as fully and quickly as possible.”

Fits in well with the war on science...

[Supermoon]

Some interesting high-level facts from Axios

https://www.axios.com/2022/08/29/stu...f-who-benefits

[J. Barron DeJong]

https://twitter.com/mattyglesias/sta...1P0sSrbBhZ8lag

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Some interesting high-level facts from Axios

https://www.axios.com/2022/08/29/stu...f-who-benefits

You mean it’s helping the people that Xavier and that adickrider are worried about? Interesting.

[total_immortal]

You mean it’s helping the people that Xavier and that adickrider are worried about? Interesting.

But they don't feel like it does, so never mind the facts.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

But they don't feel like it does, so never mind the facts.

More MAGA bullshit.

[J. Barron DeJong]

More MAGA bullshit.

I mean, if you’re concerned about the distributional impacts of this policy because too much is going to people who are well off, or because too much of the financial burden is going to be carried by the lower class, and therefore you’re going to vote GOP, boy do I have some news for you about the distributional impacts of their policies!

[ex-powderbroker]

Republicans will want to “Cut off the government dole to universities as fully and quickly as possible.”

Who cares about what the test tube baby of tucker and ann coulter has to say after this:

https://relevantmagazine.com/faith/c...good-actually/

[skaredshtles]

I mean, if you’re concerned about the distributional impacts of this policy because too much is going to people who are well off, or because too much of the financial burden is going to be carried by the lower class, and therefore you’re going to vote GOP, boy do I have some news for you about the distributional impacts of their policies!

Yeah? Well, Jesus and unborn babies. Checkmate, motherfucker!

[schuss]

I mean, if you’re concerned about the distributional impacts of this policy because too much is going to people who are well off, or because too much of the financial burden is going to be carried by the lower class, and therefore you’re going to vote GOP, boy do I have some news for you about the distributional impacts of their policies!

No shit. If Bush or Trump tax cuts didn't get your dander up about gov handouts to people that don't need it (as benefits went mostly to the top 1%), then this shouldn't even be a blip.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

No shit. If Bush or Trump tax cuts didn't get your dander up about gov handouts to people that don't need it (as benefits went mostly to the top 1%), then this shouldn't even be a blip.

But there’s loggers in Maine and an angry vet in WA that feel like this is going to hurt the working man

[Bunion 2020]

But there’s loggers in Maine and an angry vet in WA that feel like this is going to hurt the working man

A prime example of why we cannot have an open dialogue anymore.

Out of all the posts here I don't really recall seeing much of that viewpoint. Those questioning this program (I am one) tend to support the idea that higher education has gotten far too expensive but that this program doesn't address that and is being rushed as if this is an immediate crisis or emergency.

Its not and if we do go in this direction we should do our damnedest to get it right instead of using it as yet another example in 2 years of how the students were given a subsidy so why not the next boondoggle?

[MagnificentUnicorn]

A prime example of why we cannot have an open dialogue anymore.

Out of all the posts here I don't really recall seeing much of that viewpoint. Those questioning this program (I am one) tend to support the idea that higher education has gotten far too expensive but that this program doesn't address that and is being rushed as if this is an immediate crisis or emergency.

Its not and if we do go in this direction we should do our damnedest to get it right instead of using it as yet another example in 2 years of how the students were given a subsidy so why not the next boondoggle?

Look, I was asking questions and getting bullshit for answers. I’m all in on having a quality discussion about the cost of higher education. I’m of the opinion that this EO isn’t intended to address that, it’s a credit much like all the credits handed out during the pandemic and going back to 2008. It’s for immediate relief for some lower middle class debt holders. Maybe it will free up some money to be spent in this faltering economy. Is it perfect? No. Will anyone other than those benefiting from notice anything other than hurt feelings, no. Just don’t start talking about average Joe making less than $75k a year shouldering the burden because it’s not true.

[SumJongGuy]

But there’s loggers in Maine and an angry vet in WA that feel like this is going to hurt the working man

Even the vast majority of those blue collar folks DO want their kids to have the opportunity to go to college if the kid wants to. It's a pretty weak narrative when you dig in to it but works for the old people rage triggers Fox typically goes for..

[Bunion 2020]

Just don’t start talking about average Joe making less than $75k a year shouldering the burden because it’s not true.

Please show me where I have ever written such a thing?

What you call a credit WILL have to get made up somewhere and sometime even if we just add it to the Debt. I won't ever feel it, you won't either but someone will have to eat the cost.

A 1/2 a trillion here a 1/2 trillion there and pretty soon it adds up.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Please show me where I have ever written such a thing?

What you call a credit WILL have to get made up somewhere and sometime even if we just add it to the Debt. I won't ever feel it, you won't either but someone will have to eat the cost.

A 1/2 a trillion here a 1/2 trillion there and pretty soon it adds up.

I wasn’t talking about you.

Yes deficit spending looks terrible, in my lifetime(I’m 54) I’ve seen massive deficits and also surpluses. Neither seems to affect my day to day life. They’re numbers on a ledger, there’s no money

[rod9301]

A side question... but why is there even a cap?

That's a really good question. No reason at all, but rich people have influence.

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[rod9301]

that's a cool story, for sure (minus the Kaplan private business portion)...and it'd be great if schools did economize instead of leaning in to pushing loans on everyone
but it will require incentivizing from the federal government to make them all comply...what form does that take? removing govt-backed loan programs?

Absolutely. The reason tuition is so high of the loans available to everyone. If you look at a chart of college tuition, you see that it started to go up faster when the loan program started.

So why was this program started?

Not to help students, but to give banks a surfé of income that is risk free, because student loans cannot be discharged.


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[Core Shot]

Or. If you’re being kind, it could have been to help marginal students (poor credit or poor academics) qualify for loans.

And yet those are the exact same people that need BK to escape bad life choices.

So yeah. It’s the bankers yet again.

[Core Shot]

Instead of $10k across the board, why not bring back BK and use the trillion to repay creditors at some percent of losses?

That way the funds are used by those few that take the plunge. And they would get full relief.

[schuss]

Instead of $10k across the board, why not bring back BK and use the trillion to repay creditors at some percent of losses?

That way the funds are used by those few that take the plunge. And they would get full relief.

Because that requires Congress and shills will just fillibuster it.

[total_immortal]

A 1/2 a trillion here a 1/2 trillion there and pretty soon it adds up.

Remember it is 1/2 trillion over 10 years. A quick google search showed that the Afghan war cost us around $50 billion/year towards the end of the conflict, which happens to be about what this program costs annually.

Also, this will hopefully spur more economic activity as some of the debtors can now maybe pay for a mortgage or have children or seek deferred medical care or buy avocado toast, which they couldn't before because they couldn't even keep up with the interest on their student loans.