Ukraine

[summit]

Defense beats offense in urban warfare.

Unless offense just levels the place with tube and rocket arty. See also Grozny '99 & Aleppo.

[Benny Profane]

Unless offense just levels the place with tube and rocket arty. See also Grozny '99 & Aleppo.

Or Dresden and Nagasaki. I don't think we're there, yet.

[dunfree]

Unless offense just levels the place with tube and rocket arty. See also Grozny '99 & Aleppo.

The Chechen’s killed a whole bunch after being leveled

[Yukonrider]

Unless offense just levels the place with tube and rocket arty. See also Grozny '99 & Aleppo.

Didn't work so hot for Paulus

Edit to say: I feel if they start down that route NATO or the UN will step in.

[MultiVerse]

The Russians have already gone down that route: Pictures emerging from Kharkiv show massive destruction after Russian shelling.

[Benny Profane]

The Russians have already gone down that route: Pictures emerging from Kharkiv show massive destruction after Russian shelling.

Pfft.

Dresden and Nagasaki.


Yours isn't even Oklahoma City.

[MultiVerse]

There are two broad categories of contemporary trolls and we need new updated terminology for the second category, so instead of calling them "Quislings" they should now be called "Tuckers" or "Bennys"

1. Those who said Russia wouldn't invade but have now gone strangely quiet
2. Those who said Russia wouldn't invade but now say the USA does it too

[Benny Profane]

There's actually some people admitting they were wrong.

[ill-advised strategy]

Welp, no fly zone

[summit]

But they could at least had some sort of air defense in place, including drones.

Ukraine's drones are for ISR and ground attack, not air defense. They only had about a dozen good strike drones (from Turkey).

Ukraine had a good IADS (integrated air defense system) including S-300s and SA-17s which Russia degraded on day 1 with cruise missile barrages particularly targeting radars. Many of Ukraine's fighters were heavily damaged and their facilities/runways bombed every day, same for their very limited strike aircraft.

Yes Ukraine still has kept some aircraft and drones up and shot some Russian aircraft down. I'd call Ukraine's performance admirable given their extremely extremely limited resources and Russia's pathetic given their ginormous resources, but you can't expect miracles from Ukraine's air force.

Fuck, a 40 mile line of supply trucks just sitting there, like a line of ducks.

If you look at some of the OS photos of the mechanized column, you'll notice their are units off the road to the side to protect the flanks. Those are not just IFVs and infantry to keep Ukrainian dismounts and their ATGMs/RPGs away from the column, but those are also the organic air defense units, your SA-22, SA-19s, SA-17s and SA-13s which provide radars, radar guided ADA as well as short/medium range IR/Radar guided SAMs.

Russia will probably have deployed some S-300/400 SAM family with centralized command and control that can incorporate the SA-17s into an IADS to cover the entire area of advance. Ukraine cannot perform serious SEAD (suppression enemy air defenses). That is kind of a NATO superpower built over decades of countermeasure to Soviet air defense technology and doctrine...

I personally was thinking the column is moving so slowly because they are focusing on force protection rather than speed of advance against a static target. They want to concentrate and encircle and can take their time. Kyiv isn't going anywhere. Hey but I'm an amateur study, not an expert.

For a military that has such well developed SAMs, it is just mind boggling that they cannot coordinate with their air forces well enough that their air forces are able (willing) to operate (safely) over those SAMs and there you go on why Russia doesn't have air superiority even if they have localized area denial.

And maybe had the bridges ready to go with a flip of a switch.

Many many bridges were blown and all rail lines were cut. Remember the engineer who blew the bridge up along with himself to stop a thrust out of Crimea?

[Benny Profane]

How do you know all this? What are your sources?

[abraham]

How do you know all this? What are your sources?

CIA agents and local[emoji769] Ikon pass holders.

[ex-powderbroker]

tunes 4 booms:

https://twitter.com/clashreport/stat...6Md88O-hG6afLA

eta: are those thermobaric middle launchers legal per geneva or are they a war crime? russia seems to have a lot of them.

[Cono Este]

Ukraine's drones are for ISR and ground attack, not air defense. They only had about a dozen good strike drones (from Turkey).

Ukraine had a good IADS (integrated air defense system) which Russia degraded on D-Day with cruise missile barrages. Many of Ukraine's fighters were heavily damaged and their facilities/runways bombed every day, same for their very limited strike aircraft.

Yes Ukraine still has kept some aircraft and drones up and shot some Russian aircraft down. I'd call Ukraine's performance admirable given their extremely extremely limited resources and Russia's pathetic given their ginormous resources, but you can't expect miracles from Ukraine's air force.



If you look at some of the OS photos of the mechanized column, you'll notice their are units off the road to the side to protect the flanks. Those are not just IFVs and infantry to keep Ukrainian dismounts and their ATGMs/RPGs away from the column, but those are also the organic air defense units, your SA-22, SA-19s, SA-17s and SA-13s which provide radars, radar guided ADA as well as short/medium range IR/Radar guided SAMs.

Russia will probably have deployed some S-300/400 SAM family with centralized command and control that can incorporate the SA-17s into an IADS to cover the entire area of advance. Ukraine cannot perform serious SEAD (suppression enemy air defenses). That is kind of a NATO superpower built over decades of countermeasure to Soviet air defense technology and doctrine...

I personally was thinking the column is moving so slowly because they are focusing on force protection rather than speed of advance against a static target. They want to concentrate and encircle and can take their time. Kyiv isn't going anywhere. Hey but I'm an amateur study, not an expert.

For a military that has such well developed SAMs, it is just mind boggling that they cannot coordinate with their air forces well enough that their air forces are able (willing) to operate (safely) over those SAMs and there you go on why Russia doesn't have air superiority even if they have localized area denial.


Many many bridges were blown and all rail lines were cut. Remember the engineer who blew the bridge up along with himself to stop a thrust out of Crimea?

Agreed on the sams in that colum.

I think they are genuinely afraid of all the man pads we donated, they should be. And it seems like they were happy to sacrifice all these random, small groups of mechanized recce forces that got shot up. Who volunteered for that? But they probably gained valuable info.

Whatever it is, none of us have a clue of what’s going on. I just hope every tree, telephone pole has been cut down accross the road, mined, and booby trapped. I have to believe that had those plans.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[PNWbrit]

Summit.

Let's not call it D-Day.

[AK47bp]

Pfft.

Dresden and Nagasaki.


Yours isn't even Oklahoma City.

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreak..._medium=mweb3x


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[MultiVerse]

How do you know all this? What are your sources?

The war is being livestreamed to the world.

People are posting TikTok videos showing how to drive abandoned Russian armor. Others are posting Russian positions on Google Maps. There's also both public and private satellite photos. Plus thousands of videos created and posted by the belligerents themselves on social media. Even dating apps are in on it. And it's all getting geotagged, cataloged and curated in real time.

[summit]

Thermobarics are just a newer fuel-air bomb. Ever seen a buncha flour dust light off? Fuel air bomb. Foomp'd your grill by waiting too long to light? Fuel air bomb. Gasex and Obelex RACs for avalanche control? Fuel air bombs. Daisy cutter pushed out of a cargo plane to clear a jungle LZ or sterilize an Ebola hospital in the movie Outbreak? Fuel Air Bomb.

What they do is allow you to put moderate blast overpressure over a larger area than a similarly weighted warhead full of high explosive while sacrificing the higher overpressures shockwave of the high explosive.

A thermobaric is an advanced type of fuel air explosive. They are good for soft targets like unarmored vehicles and buildings as well as hard but connected open airspace targets.

The reason thermobarics offer this advantage is that you don't have to put the oxidizer in the warhead because you are using the O2 in the target area, and you are only going for explosive deflagration (low explosive). As a "bonus" you do consume that target area oxygen which may be useful to killing certain types of targets, like enemies in a bunker or cave and the deflagration may penetrate into these passages. You also get a better thermal pulse than HE which is useful for hurting flammable targets and people.

Using them on modern cities is cruel, maybe less than incendiaries, and probably more effective than HE. I'm not sure if the weapon as a type is against a Geneva convention or not, but indiscriminate bombing of civilian areas is. MLRS with thermobarics at a city is that. "Take out that city block" is not legal warfare. It is probably "less" clearly illegal than say cluster munitions and napalm. Russia dropped many fuck tons of cluster bombs on Syrian urban areas.

[ex-powderbroker]

[TBS]

tunes 4 booms:

https://twitter.com/clashreport/stat...6Md88O-hG6afLA

eta: are those thermobaric middle launchers legal per geneva or are they a war crime? russia seems to have a lot of them.

Thermobaric bombs are legal against military targets but cannot be used against civilians

[summit]

Summit.

Let's not call it D-Day.

Sorry for my over-jargon. D Day to the average person refers to D-Day for Operation Overlord: 6 June 44. "D-Day" is actually just military parlance for "the day an operation kicks off." I'll avoid that.

[leroy jenkins]

OK this is half a joke, but can we donate our old gobros to ukraine? I mean, its not like they'll really help the war effort all that much, but what else do you do with obsolete older gopros?

[leroy jenkins]

True the Russians are more disorganized and poorly supplied than expected but the reason they're in this predicament (failed miserably so far) is because they underestimated Ukraine's fighting ability.

This may be true, but it may also be true putin first sent in a combination of conscripts in old vehicles that he doesn't mind losing, and hardened well equiped units that he thinks he probably wont lose, to test and probe ukraines fighting ability, and wait to see where to commit the larger forces.

I think its both.

I read a break down today that shows on the southern fronts daily gains each day have been in rough multiples of tanks of gas for a supply truck, supposedly showing they are being held back more by logistics and less by resistance.




the us should be throwing aid at them so we don't have to get involved militarily.

[MultiVerse]

The Russians suffered heavy losses among their most highly trained airborne and spetsnaz units during their initial attempt to quickly seize the country using modern hybrid warfare.

[Benny Profane]

Haha. Ka-ching. Of course! And, it will probably happen.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/top...ng-2022-02-28/


But, holy crap.

"Russia and China have prioritized military modernization literally for decades," he said. "We are actually behind."