To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

[Deebased]

Good thing we have people like Dweeb who have spent time in those libraries and are up to date on all the most recent research.

Pouty that you're proven wrong once again?

[k2skier112]

Pouty that you're proven wrong once again?

[Deebased]

Another post without substance or referential evidence.

Keep going you're batting 1000

[MultiVerse]

The other aspect none of the studies I've read have bothered to address is asymptomatic rates for the fully vaxed.

Imperial College London has an ongoing research initiative called REACT-1. Data is based on random population samples and includes asymptomatic people.

Findings covering 24 June to 12 Jul with Delta as the dominant variant indicate double vaccinated people have around 50 to 60% reduced risk of infection, including asymptomatic infection, compared to unvaccinated people and are less likely to pass on the virus to others:

"Today's results are a stark reminder of the importance of getting vaccinated against COVID-19, with those unvaccinated three times more likely to test positive in this round than those who are fully vaccinated. This is underscored by the indications in this report that fully vaccinated people are less likely to transmit the virus to others, an important development in understanding how we can beat the virus."

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/r...to-be-infected


Also worth noting is the above sample period takes place during the steep rise in U.K. cases due to Delta. Since the mid-July UK Delta wave peak, cases/million plateaued and have begun falling. The U.S. is also experiencing a similar wave over the same period but cases/million here are still rising.

[bagtagley]

Recent results of an antibody test for a family member that was double dosed with Pfizer in April. Allergist says the numbers are high enough that previous COVID infection is almost a certainty. Any thoughts from the experts?

[Deebased]

Imperial College London has an ongoing research initiative called REACT-1. Data is based on random population samples and includes asymptomatic people.

Findings covering 24 June to 12 Jul with Delta as the dominant variant indicate double vaccinated people have around 50 to 60% reduced risk of infection, including asymptomatic infection, compared to unvaccinated people and are less likely to pass on the virus to others:

"Today's results are a stark reminder of the importance of getting vaccinated against COVID-19, with those unvaccinated three times more likely to test positive in this round than those who are fully vaccinated. This is underscored by the indications in this report that fully vaccinated people are less likely to transmit the virus to others, an important development in understanding how we can beat the virus."

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/r...to-be-infected


Also worth noting is the above sample period takes place during the steep rise in U.K. cases due to Delta. Since the mid-July UK Delta wave peak, cases/million plateaued and have begun falling. The U.S. is also experiencing a similar wave over the same period but cases/million here are still rising.

Thanks for sharing this.

[Mod Team]

Thanks to all for reporting misinformation posts today. It's a lot, but don't stop. Again, realize that reporting posts doesn't mean someone will be banned today, it may take a while or it may never happen because we decide it isn't the appropriate action. But it will certainly never happen if the posts aren't reported.

And to those of you trolling here, or simply being contrary if you don't like being labeled as a troll, tread carefully. Robust discussion is cool and all, but pumping out bullshit because you read bullshit sources or intentionally misread and/or cherry pick from legitimate sources will not be looked upon kindly and could lead to warnings, suspension, or ban hammers. You've been warned, whining later won't be effective.

[MultiVerse]

Recent results of an antibody test for a family member that was double dosed with Pfizer in April. Allergist says the numbers are high enough that previous COVID infection is almost a certainty. Any thoughts from the experts?

Experts should comment on the numbers. In the meantime, whether they had a strong(er) reaction to either the first or second dose is also an indicator. If the first dose resulted in a strong reaction then there's a good chance of prior natural infection, if the second then not as likely.

[skaredshtles]

<snip>

And to those of you trolling here, or simply being contrary if you don't like being labeled as a troll, tread carefully. Robust discussion is cool and all, but pumping out bullshit because you read bullshit sources or intentionally misread and/or cherry pick from legitimate sources will not be looked upon kindly and could lead to warnings, suspension, or ban hammers. You've been warned, whining later won't be effective.

[Adolf Allerbush]

Thanks to all for reporting misinformation posts today. It's a lot, but don't stop. Again, realize that reporting posts doesn't mean someone will be banned today, it may take a while or it may never happen because we decide it isn't the appropriate action. But it will certainly never happen if the posts aren't reported.

And to those of you trolling here, or simply being contrary if you don't like being labeled as a troll, tread carefully. Robust discussion is cool and all, but pumping out bullshit because you read bullshit sources or intentionally misread and/or cherry pick from legitimate sources will not be looked upon kindly and could lead to warnings, suspension, or ban hammers. You've been warned, whining later won't be effective.

It's got to be a tough decision for some posters, I'll say the Deeb types, who may be serious with their beliefs, however warped/unfounded. For people like RJ and Aspen it seems pretty straightforward since all they do is post misinformation/disinformation.

[Deebased]

There goes another idiot narrative about the unclean.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1...795v1.full.pdf

[Mofro261]

Recent results of an antibody test for a family member that was double dosed with Pfizer in April. Allergist says the numbers are high enough that previous COVID infection is almost a certainty. Any thoughts from the experts?

The simple answer: The lack of an NP response suggests only vaccination, and not previous infection.

[Mofro261]

none of the studies I've read have bothered to address is asymptomatic rates for the fully vaxed.

The Delta study from Singapore notes ~28% Asymptomatic rate in vaxxed/infected vs 9.2% remaining Asympt in the unvaxxed/infected group.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....28.21261295v1

[paulster2626]

thats a deeply reaching edict in move than just the simple servants, its probably like a million people who must vax if they havent already and other companies & industries will follow suit,


they are coming for your freedoms eh ?



https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/fed...ions-1.6140131

Transport Minister Omar Alghabra announced today that the federal government will soon require that all public servants be vaccinated — a mandate that he said will also be implemented by Crown corporations and other federally regulated businesses in the coming weeks.

While Canada's vaccination rate is among the highest in the world — 81 per cent of all eligible Canadians have had at least one dose — Alghabra said the country "must do better."

"We need to reach as many Canadians as we possibly can," he said.

Oh it gets even better than that!

Beyond the mandatory vaccination requirement for federal employees, Alghabra said, a similar mandate will be extended to "certain travellers."

Starting soon, all commercial air travellers and passengers on interprovincial trains and large marine vessels with overnight accommodations (such as cruise ships) will have to be vaccinated, Alghabra said. He said accommodations will be made for "those few who are unable to be vaccinated," such as testing and screening.

BRING IT ON

Critics, meanwhile, say that requiring vaccines is a heavy-handed approach that could lead to discrimination against the unvaccinated.

*The unvaccinated who have chosen to do so. Dontfuckingcare.

The [Conservative] MP said such a policy would punish Canadians for "what they choose to do with their bodies."

Suddenly the Conservatives are concerned about a person's right to choose what they do to their body? Heh, good one.

[bagtagley]

Experts should comment on the numbers. In the meantime, whether they had a strong(er) reaction to either the first or second dose is also an indicator. If the first dose resulted in a strong reaction then there's a good chance of prior natural infection, if the second then not as likely.

The simple answer: The lack of an NP response suggests only vaccination, and not previous infection.

Thanks for the responses! Good to know about NP and no reaction to either dose, so sounds like that settles it.

[summit]

If vaccines inevitably caused super resistant strains to emerge we would all be getting polio, measles, mumps, rubella, chickenpox, diphtheria etc etc. I don't know if there are any viruses in humans where that has happened. I think flu mutates spontaneously, not due to vaccine pressure. but I could be wrong about that. If the chicken virus in that study should leap to humans we should be careful though.

Correct, influenza antigenic drift is continuous due to natural recombination not vaccine selection pressure and was happening long before we got vaccines. It happens so much naturally that the vaccines we make sometimes miss the target antigen due to either drift or prevalence of unexpected strains. Flu's antigens can vary wildly (from an immunological recognition perspective) without affecting viral fitness, unlike, say Measles (or COVID). The rapidity of influenza replication, onset of symptoms, and transmission when escaping or partially escaping antibody response beats the T cell recognition and spin up of response, which is probably also playing in with Delta where better fitness for entry into host cells causes higher viral loads sooner. Measles gives the body a lot more time to react.

[summit]

Agreed, we also know that the naturally infected typically have antibody responses that continue to evolve well past those of the vaxed.

But that doesn't seem to be inhibiting the spread of Delta.


With hospitalizations for adults running above the adult vaccination rate in Israel, Its tough to believe it reduces transmission and replication (although if there's a shorter/less severe infection period that in and of itself theoretically reduces the # of replicas.

It's easy to believe the vaccine is still doing its job. This strain has a R0 of 7-9 instead of the wild type's 2ish number. If it weren't for the vaccine, we'd be locked down everywhere and the health systems still might be collapsing.

[spanghew]

but wait--no need to go to CVS or Walgreen's, or even your doctor: the real good stuff is out there, if you can afford it:

https://www.rawstory.com/trial-of-go...ed-until-2022/

[summit]

The simple answer: The lack of an NP response suggests only vaccination, and not previous infection.

Concur

[XXX-er]

Oh it gets even better than that!



BRING IT ON


*The unvaccinated who have chosen to do so. Dontfuckingcare.



Suddenly the Conservatives are concerned about a person's right to choose what they do to their body? Heh, good one.

I can't see how vaccinated Canadians would care about discrimination against unvaccinated Canadians ?

Even Erin the tool recognizes the Cons of which he is the leader need to distance themselves from the whacko-nut-jobs if they ever want to win an election, that which Peter Mackay refered to as " the stinking albatross of social conservatism" i think Peter Mackay was smart enough to recognize a no-win and passed on the leadership ... which ironicaly makes him smart enough to be the leader

yeah like i said a rather nebulous far reaching edict from the federal gov, to me that could read anybody who wants to use any commercial travel ?

does this mean a vax passport is in the works for canadians ? Taking away the freedumbs of the mouth breatehrs and crayon eaters will be awesume !

[MagnificentUnicorn]

The article linked is an example of fully vaxed deaths from C19 Delta (which disproves Dexter's fundamentally false statement) At no point did I state that delta has a mortality rate of 22%

You’re a lying sack of shit. You’ve been proven wrong, your posts are intentionally misleading and you’re try to create divisiveness. If that’s not the case you’re admitting that you’re lazy, ignorant and stupid. Which is it?


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[ron johnson]

^ That article is based on the bad data you posted earlier.

Source?

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Source?

Don’t be lazy, do your own research.


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[ron johnson]

It's got to be a tough decision for some posters, I'll say the Deeb types, who may be serious with their beliefs, however warped/unfounded. For people like RJ and Aspen it seems pretty straightforward since all they do is post misinformation/disinformation.

Oh yes we are back to the baseless claims of "misinformation" despite never being able to provide an example when I ask.

Misinformation = accurate and factual information I don't like.

[ron johnson]

Don’t be lazy, do your own research.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

If he's going to claim it's based on bad data then it's on him to prove it.