ON3P SKIS Discussion

[BC.]

Mounted 2 pairs of ON3P at my shop in NEPA yesterday...last year a pair of Billy Goats right before COVID hit.....it’s the third pair seen since my own Wren108’s two years ago....maybe the stoke is slowly spreading east....The PA kids are catching on....

It was a Pivot18 Forza on a skinny Jeffrey and a reused Griffon on a skinny Magnus....

Assuming/hopefully they bought them direct from you guys..

[SupreChicken]

Finally got out on my new softer Jeffrey 108’s. They’re EXACTLY what I hoped they would be... They ride like a 108mm version of my Caylors. Tips and tails a little flappy when running flat, but lay ‘em on edge and they trench like a mofo with a nice “pop” out of the turn. Loading the tails and then popping off little rollers is a blast. Super happy with my new DD’s!

So you’re on those until there’s > 4 or 5” and then you switch to cease and desists? Just those 2 skis for riding lifts?

[MHSP1497]

So you’re on those until there’s > 4 or 5” and then you switch to cease and desists? Just those 2 skis for riding lifts?

Yeah, pretty much. Still have the 122mm Caylor’s too for when it’s soft and I feel playful. But with the way I like how the Cease & Desists ski compared to my Billy Goats (which are sold), I think this quiver should work well this year. I’m really impressed with the “softer” option on these Jeffrey 108’s too, the description of “rounder” is perfect. They have the same flex pattern/profile as the C&D and Caylor’s, which really suits me well

[kid-kapow]

I def think a few more pics of those new beasts of yours is what this monday requires Especially rocker pics

[mr_pretzel]

The soft jeffrey is a really fun ski. I loved the pair I used to have

[kid-kapow]

The Mango Jeffrey 108’s are gonna be sweet. Asked for them to be dialed very similar to the Caylor’s (which I just love), so they’re very custom. Really can’t wait to ride them, slotted as the new DD’s.

MHSP mentioned this in the quiver thread a while back.

Iggy also stated at some point in this thread that Karl Fostvedt's favorite / most heavily used pair of k108s or k116s (the pair he used when he won Corbet's K&Q) had a flatter profile underfoot, was also based on the Caylor profile if my memory serves me right. Aka this pair.

[iggyskier]

They were the standard Kartel/Jeffrey mold, we just would throw the heat hotter on top of the ski to cure in a bit more tip/tail rocker and bit less camber. Wasn't the actual caylor profiling, just some tweaks to push the standard profile that way.

[kid-kapow]

ah - ok, thanks for the explanation.

[tuco]

So Caylors are/were softer than current Jeff's? Or the main difference is more rocker, less camber?
Caylors are the funnest ski I think I've ever been on. Makes one start scanning features and popping off shit! My favorite ON3P model. Mine only have one weakness or they'd be my DD for sure. I've only heard one other person mention it(and he's kinda a doosch) so I'm gonna get them ground/restructered and see what happens

[MHSP1497]

They were the standard Kartel/Jeffrey mold, we just would throw the heat hotter on top of the ski to cure in a bit more tip/tail rocker and bit less camber. Wasn't the actual caylor profiling, just some tweaks to push the standard profile that way.

Iggy, your Team NAILED IT! I’m so happy with how they’ve turned out!!!

[wwwllw]

New firm snow ski. 102 woodsman ti. I like the mango sunrise a lot.

[iggyskier]

So Caylors are/were softer than current Jeff's? Or the main difference is more rocker, less camber?

Less camber longer rocker. We can emulate it a bit with heat to something that falls in between the Jeffrey and Caylor molds. Flex comparable. It really was just the long rocker. Most people benefit from the support of bit more camber/less rocker though.

[SupreChicken]

Makes sense. The Caylor was fun AF...but supportive...not really

[eSock]

Looking forward to getting some time on my BGs, I'm ready to get a different touring ski and thinking keeping it in the family w/ either a woodsman tour or bg 108 tour may be the move so skiing bc won't feel so jarring.

[sierraskier]

Anyone been on the tour versions BG108 and/or Woodsman108? My only ON3P reference point or experience is on a '15 BG. Fun in anything soft, while the tips/RES were a little squirrely on anything firm. Needed 15mph+ to come alive. Also curious how the asym shape on the BG affects touring. This ski would ideally be a mid-fat, dedicated touring ski (dynafits), that is better at lower speeds (softer) and is predictable in the wide variety of BC conditions - light pow, firm, windboard, funk, mank, coral reef, corn, etc. What ski am I?

[flatland]

I'm mounting a set of 2011/12 191 Billy Goats with CAST and have some hole overlap and need to go either +1 or -1 cm from the line. Looks like the line is at -8.5cm on this version.

Looking for some thoughts from the collective on this one, newer versions seem to have the line farther back so that might be the move?

[CallMeAl]

Anyone been on the tour versions BG108 and/or Woodsman108? My only ON3P reference point or experience is on a '15 BG. Fun in anything soft, while the tips/RES were a little squirrely on anything firm. Needed 15mph+ to come alive. Also curious how the asym shape on the BG affects touring. This ski would ideally be a mid-fat, dedicated touring ski (dynafits), that is better at lower speeds (softer) and is predictable in the wide variety of BC conditions - light pow, firm, windboard, funk, mank, coral reef, corn, etc. What ski am I?

In short: WD108 skis shitty hard snow better. Any ski with RES skis shitty soft snow better.

In long: I've been running a 187 Woodsman 108 Tour this (late)spring/summer/fall. Before that I was on a 184 Steeple 116 (non-asym) for 3 seasons. Tectons on both. Not the direct comparison you're looking for, but close, kinda.

I definitely appreciate the WD 108 over the ST116 in most situations that don't involve an upside-down snowpack, isothermal mank or significant breakable wind/sun crust (the types of snow I typically *try* to avoid in the Montana BC at all costs anyway). Moving to touring ski that doesn't have a negative radius made skiing corn, windboard, and reef much more enjoyable for me. Having a full sidecut just makes cleaner, more controlled turns easier for me to achieve on firm snow.

That being said- I skied (struggled) through some thin sugar with a hard but breakable wind crust on top last week and I must admit, I missed having the RES/pin tail combo to keep my tips up and loose without any added effort.

For reference, I ski a 187 WD108 and 184 BG116 (both stock) at the resort.

[sierraskier]

In short: WD108 skis shitty hard snow better. Any ski with RES skis shitty soft snow better.

In long: I've been running a 187 Woodsman 108 Tour this (late)spring/summer/fall. Before that I was on a 184 Steeple 116 (non-asym) for 3 seasons. Tectons on both. Not the direct comparison you're looking for, but close, kinda.

I definitely appreciate the WD 108 over the ST116 in most situations that don't involve an upside-down snowpack, isothermal mank or significant breakable wind/sun crust (the types of snow I typically *try* to avoid in the Montana BC at all costs anyway). Moving to touring ski that doesn't have a negative radius made skiing corn, windboard, and reef much more enjoyable for me. Having a full sidecut just makes cleaner, more controlled turns easier for me to achieve on firm snow.

That being said- I skied (struggled) through some thin sugar with a hard but breakable wind crust on top last week and I must admit, I missed having the RES/pin tail combo to keep my tips up and loose without any added effort.

For reference, I ski a 187 WD108 and 184 BG116 (both stock) at the resort.

Thanks for that. Makes sense. I think in super weird, challenging, inconsistent snow (breakable crust, reef, etc.) less sidecut is generally better, as the edges are less likely to get hung up. Definitely what I would like to avoid, but will undoubtedly encounter if I want to tour during long dry spells like we're currently in here in Tahoe. And on a firm, consistent surface more sidecut / effective edge = better control. I'm just trying to be realistic about finding the ski that will best handle the widest variety of snow pretty well. And when you peel back the onion a little further, it's really about the ski that handles the absolute shit snow the best, as most skis would handle good/moderate conditions well.

It's interesting that you go with the longer length on the Woodsman, which has the longer effective edge, than the BG. If on 187 WD, I would expect you to be on the 189 BG.

[margotron]

who's ordering all the bg tours? theyre not in this thread apparently

[adrenalated]

who's ordering all the bg tours? theyre not in this thread apparently

Fuck yes I did! I've been asking Scott to make that ski for like 5 years now, I was kinda obligated to buy some

They'll be my primary touring ski, complemented by Praxis Freerides and Praxis Protests in either direction.

[CallMeAl]

Thanks for that. Makes sense. I think in super weird, challenging, inconsistent snow (breakable crust, reef, etc.) less sidecut is generally better, as the edges are less likely to get hung up. Definitely what I would like to avoid, but will undoubtedly encounter if I want to tour during long dry spells like we're currently in here in Tahoe. And on a firm, consistent surface more sidecut / effective edge = better control. I'm just trying to be realistic about finding the ski that will best handle the widest variety of snow pretty well. And when you peel back the onion a little further, it's really about the ski that handles the absolute shit snow the best, as most skis would handle good/moderate conditions well.

It's interesting that you go with the longer length on the Woodsman, which has the longer effective edge, than the BG. If on 187 WD, I would expect you to be on the 189 BG.

True, which is probably why I skied the ST116 for so long without ever considering replacing it. RES eat's shit for breakfast. Once you get used to it, traditional sidecut becomes a chore in the types of snow we discussed. The most practical reason I have the WD108T instead of the BG108T is because I was testing the new core more than anything, and the WD108 molds (shape I'm super comfortable with) were set up to rock and roll at the time (late spring '20), and the BG108 (shape I havent spent any time on) wasn't completely dialed yet.

Also, to answer your other question about asym/touring, the BG108 is a symmetrical design, BG 116 is asym.

Re 184BG/187WD: I ski the BG116 and WD108 shapes differently, in different conditions.
Since WD can be driven with a forward stance to power through variable snow, longer EE obviously provides me with more stability at speed in those scenarios.
In my mind the whole point of RES is that the negative radius edge is ineffective, rather than effective. The turns I make on my BGs are drifty and loose- mainly because of RES, but also because of the type of snow I like to ski them on, which is always some sort of soft whether it be fresh or chop. I've spent plenty of time on the current 189 as well as the OG 191 (same thing), but to me (5'9", 165 lbs) the extra length hinders agility more than it benefits stability. If I were taller or heavier, that might not be the case.

[RudyGarmisch]

Anyone been on the tour versions BG108 and/or Woodsman108? My only ON3P reference point or experience is on a '15 BG. Fun in anything soft, while the tips/RES were a little squirrely on anything firm. Needed 15mph+ to come alive. Also curious how the asym shape on the BG affects touring. This ski would ideally be a mid-fat, dedicated touring ski (dynafits), that is better at lower speeds (softer) and is predictable in the wide variety of BC conditions - light pow, firm, windboard, funk, mank, coral reef, corn, etc. What ski am I?

I love RES for touring for those exact shitfuck conditions you so often get to ski through whilst touring.

[frosted flakes]

who's ordering all the bg tours? theyre not in this thread apparently

I got a pair too. They’re from the most recent batch though, so they aren’t mounted yet. Should have them ready to go soon.

[tuco]

Less camber longer rocker. We can emulate it a bit with heat to something that falls in between the Jeffrey and Caylor molds. Flex comparable. It really was just the long rocker. Most people benefit from the support of bit more camber/less rocker though.

Gotcha.

Makes sense. The Caylor was fun AF...but supportive...not really

I get the fun AF part, but not supportive? That's not an issue, I'd DD the fuck out of them if I can get them to glide better! They ski fine, slow on flats, brutal on traverses and this fucking road getting back to lift

[Norseman]

i have 4 days touring on the bg108t. pretty busy today but will try to make some time for a review