Waxless/Fishscale BC skis ?

[#######]

FYI the Charger and Charger BC are discontinued for 16/17. Replaced by a softer flexing, shorter radius, but strangely named Supercharger. Probably cause Wally has a new hip and the engineer wears two sets of knee pads.
http://www.voile.com/voile-16-17-pre...2016-2017.html

-And- a newer narrower Vector style ski called the Objective/OBJ BC.

http://www.utahoutside.com/2016/01/n...door-retailer/

[jmedslc]

I find both the Charger BC and Vector BC to be excellent touring skis - they are quick turning and hold an edge on firm snow. They are very efficient for long approaches and depending on snow quality, I can spend an entire day "meadowskipping" on mellow terrain and never need to apply skins. This typically only occurs when I'm skiing solo, as my up track is much lower angle than that of someone using skins. I use the Vectors for routine touring, short/long outings and powder up to ~12" deep. if the snow is deeper, i'll go w the Chargers or my resort skis, the Bro Fat 183.

i've got a pair of 181 charger BC currently mounted w AXL for 27.5 boot, with a prior mount for dynafit (i think) that i'd move for cheap. skis are in great shape, no damage, have not seen many days. ~250$/offer ski only, make offer for ski/axl. selling simply due to quiver overlap w vector BC/Switchbacks which get used very often. I have not posted these anywhere for sale, but if someone here is interested, holler...

[therudeness]

Gotta say I am LOVIN these vector bc's mounted Tele. Awesome skis

[GeezerSteve]

Vector BC and Charger BC are also great fun with light AT bindings and boots

[Aenigma]

I got a set of Vectors about a month ago and mounted them with some Speed Turn 2.0's, and they have surpassed expectations so far! Not too shabby in powder, but where they really shine is on long spring tours. I did an ~18 mile loop with 7,000' of climbing and five descents yesterday, and only had to put on skins for two of the climbs (could have found a way around it, but skins always have a place). The really noticeable difference was turning a 4+ mile flat approach from almost two hours of skinning to 45 minutes on scales!

Patterned bases are certainly a niche tool that isn't for most skiers, but when you use them in the right place, the difference is pretty extraordinary. Touring in the YNP area, I'd say I'm doing in 8 hours what would normally take at least 10+, which gives me more time for skiing!

[therudeness]

Agreed, we've just been lapping closed resorts here in the east and man are they fun. Not just on the up, where they excel, but great on the down too. I was just cruising up and down, no skins except for the steeper pitches and as mentioned above, I could have probably made due. With the BD01 it's a simple flip into tour mode, almost zero transition. Thinking of getting quiver killers or just another pair for my Dynafit setup

[therudeness]

Lovin em!!

[B6Fischer]

Lovin em!!

I primarily Ski the East and Vector BC's paired with Switchbacks and T2's are a great setup. Im a big skier 6-2, 250# and even the 170's have worked when the 180's werent available. Stable at all speeds. I find their climbing ability is great when paired with good technique. When terrain exceeds my tele ability, parallel turns are quick edge to edge in tight trees. No problem. Picking up a pair of 180's from Whitegrass Friday then heading to Vermont. Hope to try them out on the RASTA glades. Can't wait...

[s_curran]

Has anyone seen any reviews on the G3 FINDr XCD ski?

I got a recommendation that the Vector is the perfect ski for the area we are spending our time, but we are new to any sort of touring. Both pretty good tree skiers, and both have small amounts of XC and snowshoe experience. Rolling hills in VT, but theres some bigger, steeper stuff as well. Sort of looking to just go out the door and into the hills. So the Vector seems perfect, even though I didnt even know this genre existed until a few days ago.

Any recommendations on where to find some reasonable deals on Vectors? anyone know any of the differences with the new UltraVectors?

Lastly, can anyone point me towards what I need to look into for bindings? I have an interest is learning to ski heel free, but not ready to make that the only way, especially as I'm learning to handle new terrain. Is something like the Dynafit possible to ski both? Is there something out there that could be good for learning that is maybe cheaper and presumably heavy?

[sb]

I found some last year Madshuss Annoms on ebay for a decent price, they are 195 but I am fine with that. I am gonna mount them up with our tele/AT hybird clamps.

[GeezerSteve]

Madshus Annum fka Karhu Guide. Fun noodly meadow skipper

Any recommendations on where to find some reasonable deals on Vectors? anyone know any of the differences with the new UltraVectors?

Lastly, can anyone point me towards what I need to look into for bindings?

Dunno where you might find a deal on Vector BCs. Voile says Ultra Vectors have softened flex and more sidecut. Softer flex militates against fishscale function (assuming everything else is the same).

Re bindings: I usually use lightweight Dynafits (Speed Turn 2.0 modded with DIY Comfort-style top plates and B&D volcanoes) and release the heel per Van Halen method when I want a free heel. I have tried TTS with AT boots (TLT5, TLT6), which gives you c. 90% fixed heel control on most terrain and allows you to shuffle around when in downhill mode. I don't mind downhilling on mellow terrain with a free heel so long as I'm in a Nordic state of mind.

[HHTELE]

"Is something like the Dynafit possible to ski both? "

No. But, as Steve mentioned, there are telemark and hybrid systems that will give pretty good alpine control.

But- given where you are at in your touring trajectory, you will probably be better off with AT bindings.

I used to ski my BC's tele. Now, I like the Fritchi Vipec binding, which is a pin, or tech, binding like a Dynafit. Some tech bindings are easy to go from ski to tour to ski mode, and Vipec is one of them.

Some people ski this ski with step in touring bindings, also called frame bindings. while these are the simplest to use, they are heavy and clunky. Well worth the effort to learn to use a tech binding with this ski.

[s_curran]

Thanks for the help, much appreciated.

[GeezerSteve]

Good luck getting set up. You'll love 'em. Fat fishscales = simple pleasure, so much fun

[alexstrong]

sorry to hijack an old thread, but seems like there are people on here already talking about this and searching didn’t turn up the answer in other posts.

I’m getting some voile objective bcs set up for some rolling hill exploring. I got lucky on some deals and have Dynafit toes, Procline boots, and OMG heels And wondering what solutions people have for getting the tts heel To work with a boot that is to wide at the bottom for the tts heel to go around it.

It seems like if there was a way to clip the clip the tts heel into the Dynafit heel insert that would be low enough not to be in the way.

[sb]

Pics would be helpful.

Can you combo bend the heel bail and grind down the boot area to get it to fit?

Or maybe just go tele.

[GeezerSteve]

I’m getting some voile objective bcs set up for some rolling hill exploring * * * Procline boots * * * wondering what solutions people have for getting the tts heel To work with a boot that is to wide at the bottom for the tts heel to go around it.

I'm surprised that the TTS won't get around the Procline heel. Sorry, I can't help you. I ran fat fishscales with TTS + light AT boots (TLT5, TLT6) for a couple years, but switched back to full tech bindings w/flat mode (e.g., Turn 2.0). I ski with the heels free on rolling terrain. A few moments I've thought "gee, TTS would be nice here" but overall I prefer full tech on my fat fishscales.

[Quadzilla]

I agree with Steve here, my background is that I use modern big fishscales on my primary AT skis and also use big fishscales on my one tele setup as well. I don't think there is much of a reason to hook up the tail of a AT boot with a tele cable system. First and most importantly is that you will lose release value when the cable is hooked up and you will find it is a hassle to bend over on a regular basis fighting the cable over the heel for what little benefit you might think you will have. For me with a little practice I find I can ski the down pretty well with my heel totally free so rolling terrain with fishscaled AT set works great.

So, IMO, just setup your rig AT and have a light setup that can ski most anything and smoke gliding the flats. That is unless you want to tele turn then you need to get tele boots with a pin toe or just set the whole thing up telemark boots and bindings........

[AlpiNord]

RE wide AT skis with patterned base vs kicker skins, on a recent 1 1/2 & 2 1/2 mile slog in and out, respectively, I was wishing I was on my BC Chargers for part of it. However, they make lot of noise in many conditions and do not glide as well as well waxed AT skis. So, I'm wondering about getting a set of kicker skins for these situations and also meadow skipping. How do the two options compare? I'd probably wax them like I do my regular skins which really helps the glide and keeps them from glopping up with snow.

[GeezerSteve]

RE wide AT skis with patterned base vs kicker skins. . . .

The issue is the drag of the bowed steel plate at the front of the kicker skin, which IME is a deal killer. My kicker skins worked okay ascending in soft low angle snow, although there's not much advantage of kicker skins vs. full length skins in soft snow. On anything firm or semi-firm, the plate acts as a brake, making them slower -- sometimes much slower -- than fishscales, and the plate fucks up the ability to turn. IME, in corn, the plate acts like a snowplow. I sold my kicker skins after a season of using them in a variety of conditions.

An alternative for road/rolling/frozen lake ingress/egress that has worked better for me is a narrow (say, 1/2 width or so) full length skin, which results in a much better glide than a full-width skin and turns pretty well once the ski is turned on edge. Another + is that it's free or cheap to try because most of us have an old set of skinny skins in the gear room.

[AlpiNord]

The issue is the drag of the bowed steel plate at the front of the kicker skin, which IME is a deal killer. My kicker skins worked okay ascending in soft low angle snow, although there's not much advantage of kicker skins vs. full length skins in soft snow. On anything firm or semi-firm, the plate acts as a brake, making them slower -- sometimes much slower -- than fishscales, and the plate fucks up the ability to turn. IME, in corn, the plate acts like a snowplow. I sold my kicker skins after a season of using them in a variety of conditions.

An alternative for road/rolling/frozen lake ingress/egress that has worked better for me is a narrow (say, 1/2 width or so) full length skin, which results in a much better glide than a full-width skin and turns pretty well once the ski is turned on edge. Another + is that it's free or cheap to try because most of us have an old set of skinny skins in the gear room.

I've got a couple BCNN set ups for my go to XC touring, but the above was in reference to a BC tour of 2000 ft, ski then slog out. For the ski, I prefer my ATs and the patterned skis would be fine for the slog on an access road with cat & snowmobile tracks. Would the kickers (with regular skins for the climbs) completely suck for that type of use? We were joking that a snowmobile would be great of course, but fat tire eBikes would be the bomb.

[Quadzilla]

I've got a couple BCNN set ups for my go to XC touring, but the above was in reference to a BC tour of 2000 ft, ski then slog out. For the ski, I prefer my ATs and the patterned skis would be fine for the slog on an access road with cat & snowmobile tracks. Would the kickers (with regular skins for the climbs) completely suck for that type of use? We were joking that a snowmobile would be great of course, but fat tire eBikes would be the bomb.

I have some experience with kickers and I think they climb better than modern fishscales but they don't glide as well. So for typical approaches and runouts the scales will be faster with same or lesser effort. Also for me I found that it takes about the same time to pull out kickers, put on as well as take off about the same as regular full skins so why bother. Additionally, not that much fun to make turns with kickers on but if you are planing on your fishscales they turn about as well as regular bottom skis. Anyway, not a fan of kickers but they will slog faster than full skins and probably be more friendly on rolling terrain

[AlpiNord]

The patterned based skis are certainly the KISS option. That's why I got them in the first place. Might as well use 'em. Thx

[alexstrong]

Pics would be helpful.

Can you combo bend the heel bail and grind down the boot area to get it to fit?

Or maybe just go tele.

links to photos of the boots and tts heel bail. I am a new user so I am not allowed to post photos or links,
ibb.co/1LmWSsL
ibb.co/SQVBm8
so you will have to cut and paste.

[alexstrong]

I'm surprised that the TTS won't get around the Procline heel. Sorry, I can't help you. I ran fat fishscales with TTS + light AT boots (TLT5, TLT6) for a couple years, but switched back to full tech bindings w/flat mode (e.g., Turn 2.0). I ski with the heels free on rolling terrain. A few moments I've thought "gee, TTS would be nice here" but overall I prefer full tech on my fat fishscales.

I had seen some of your posts and a few other people on other sites, about the TTS + light AT boots, and when I found a pair of Proclines for 75% off I thought I would give it a try. I will try out the free heel AT before customizing the TTS. Thanks for the responses