Waxless/Fishscale BC skis ?

**HHTELE** · 03-08-2016, 07:22 AM

Originally Posted by therudeness

I've got a pair of Madshus Eon 185's and more recently got some Fischer S-Bounds 98 in 189cm (69mm waist), both mounted with 3-pin bindings and I use some old Scarpa T2 or T2X's (or even leather boots if i'm really just cruising). I've had a ton of fun on these, but recently did a 20km tour with a lot of approach, then a big uphill section (broke out the skins) - the skis worked great, and I was flying. However, once I got to the down, although I was happy to find a ton of deep untracked, slightly wind affected snow - I couldn't really hack it on the skinnies. I made it down and had fun, but bailed a few times and definitely didn't 'slay it'. Now this wasn't a really steep line, but too steep and deep for the fischers.

I'm wondering.. Next time I do a tour like this, should I just wax up my AT gear for the approach / deproach.. probably stay in free-heel mode the whole time except the descent.. Or expand the quiver... I have a pair of Black Diamond O1's laying around, and I have a line on some well priced Voile Charger BC's. My concern is that the Chargers are too 'chargy' and not really appropriate for this kind of setup. They're classified as a big-mountain ski which is not what i'd be using them for. I realize the setup would be a lot heavier, but i'm willing to compromise for some performance. Maybe the Vector's would be perfect, but I found the chargers for a better price...

I don't know the answer to your question, but thank you for "deproach".
Think I'll use it.

**GeezerSteve** · 03-08-2016, 09:20 AM

Originally Posted by ski-wpk

for what it's worth, i have BC125s and love them for low angle touring. almost never put skins on them because i never go steep in them, but they can still crank a turn if needed. limiting factor is probably my boots and voile 3-pins over the skis, though.

Rossignol states that "it is not possible to mount a Dynafit binding on the BC125." Anybody got more info re Rossi's thinking?

**therudeness** · 03-08-2016, 09:42 AM

that seems strange.. is the ski not thick enough?

**MagnificentUnicorn** · 03-08-2016, 09:53 AM

Originally Posted by Big Steve

Rossignol states that "it is not possible to mount a Dynafit binding on the BC125." Anybody got more info re Rossi's thinking?

There's more than a few weirdos buying the BC125 with Dynafits out of LMS over here. Adam says they love them.

**GeezerSteve** · 03-08-2016, 10:13 AM

Thanks for that info. Maybe I'll give him a call.

My cheapskate bud is looking for fat fishscales, but is looking for less costly options than the Vector BC, which seldom go on significant sale and are seldom available use. The forces with a 75mm Nordic Norm 3-pin binding and a plastic boot (e.g., T4, Excursion) are at least as much as a Dynafit toe, so I'm not worried about the toe mount. Maybe there's no binding plate for the heel?

**MagnificentUnicorn** · 03-08-2016, 11:27 AM

I'm not sure about the longevity just that several people in the valley were using that combo and Adam told me about it. The guys were dirtbags types who didn't want to "splurge" on the Vectors, which are still a bargain IMO. I think some were using for approach and deproach for ice climbs.

**TAFKALVS** · 03-08-2016, 11:43 AM

I mounted a pair for a friend and didn't notice any difference from any other light weight skis in terms of drill feel, amount of wood shavings, effort to tighten screws, etc.

That said, they don't ski all that well. Get what you pay for.

**skiSilent_skiDeep** · 03-08-2016, 11:50 AM

fwiw.
I had spent many youthful days during the 1990's on a beater pair of Fischer no-wax metal edged skis mounted up with silvretta 300 frame binders which i had strictly used for approaching ice climbs, techy alpine routes, and trad mountaineering objectives.
(survival) skiing in double plastic mountaineering boots or leather ice boots combined with a 30# ice kit added to my then 185# frame made for some serious hateful descents, often through terrain that I would never normally ski. surprisingly, after the countless times of eating shit I had not once ripped out a binder.

so based on of my experience, I would think mounting up a pair of modern BC waxless/fishscaled skis with tech-lite binders would be an acceptable option (assuming materials and craftsmanship have not deviated much since the 90's).

**GeezerSteve** · 03-08-2016, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by Run Silent Run Deep

I had spent many youthful days during the 1990's on a beater pair of Fischer no-wax metal edged skis mounted up with silvretta 300 frame binders. . . .

Europa 99 Crowns?

**ski-wpk** · 03-08-2016, 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by Leavenworth Skier

I mounted a pair for a friend and didn't notice any difference from any other light weight skis in terms of drill feel, amount of wood shavings, effort to tighten screws, etc.

That said, they don't ski all that well. Get what you pay for.

Agree that you get what you pay for with the BC125s. Sometimes that's OK. I got mine used from a mag for $80 and their value has far exceeded their cost.

My guess on no Dynafit is no reinforcement under the heel, though I've seen them mounted with alpine bindings before.

**Aenigma** · 03-08-2016, 01:18 PM

I'm kind of ho-humming about getting a pair of Vector BCs right now, and can't find anyone I can borrow a pair from to sway myself. I have a pair of 188 BD Converts I use for regular touring, and a pair of 185 Annums with 3-pin bindings I use for XC, and am thinking I would like something that sits in between them. The Converts feel a bit big on longer tours, and I often find myself making kind of stupid approaches to go ski fun stuff around YNP (and thinking of how much better it would be crossing 5 miles of flats without skins).

Would the Vectors hold up alright on bigger terrain? I don't ever ski at the resort, so that is not an issue at all, but springtime peak-bagging can get me to some interesting places...

**dschane** · 03-08-2016, 01:31 PM

$460 for BC Vectors new is pretty damn good: http://store.allspeed.com/voile-vector-bc-2016/

**GeezerSteve** · 03-08-2016, 01:40 PM

Originally Posted by Aenigma

Would the Vectors hold up alright on bigger terrain? I don't ever ski at the resort, so that is not an issue at all, but springtime peak-bagging can get me to some interesting places...

Not sure what you mean by "bigger terrain." Vector (smooth base) and Vector BC -- I have both -- are very capable touring skis, and IME tough and durable. Vectors have been skied on lots of ski mountaineering lines. Sure, they have a speed limit, but they are torsionally pretty stiff and have good edge hold. Vector BC is way way more ski than your noodly Annums, and the rocker tip is nice for spring mank.

**Aenigma** · 03-08-2016, 02:39 PM

I pretty much just mean being able to get down chutes from 35-50 degrees, in varying conditions. My days of getting radical and throwing myself off cliffs ended a couple knee surgeries ago, so more skiing than flying, these days.

**HHTELE** · 03-08-2016, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by Aenigma

I pretty much just mean being able to get down chutes from 35-50 degrees, in varying conditions. My days of getting radical and throwing myself off cliffs ended a couple knee surgeries ago, so more skiing than flying, these days.

Yes.
Vectors do this.
I have skied mine just a bit in consequential terrain, and the weak link in the equation is not the ski.

**therudeness** · 03-08-2016, 04:09 PM

so now the question is.. do i shell out for the V6 BC's or the Vectors, or go for the cheap Chargers which may be slightly overkill for a scaled setup.

i like how people are saying the chargers turn on a dime though...

**dschane** · 03-08-2016, 05:25 PM

How cheap on those Chargers are you talking?

**AlpiNord** · 03-08-2016, 05:50 PM

Originally Posted by therudeness

so now the question is.. do i shell out for the V6 BC's or the Vectors, or go for the cheap Chargers which may be slightly overkill for a scaled setup.

i like how people are saying the chargers turn on a dime though...

I'm liking my Chargers BCs for easy climbing, meadow skipping and nice to have for variable and tougher snows and conditions. My son 'acquired' my V8s which were fun, but always seemed too wide and easy, though not much different than the Charger BCs, other than a bigger tail rise and dramatically different mounting line. On a few occasions, I thought that the V6 would be a little better all-arounder than the V8s.

**GeezerSteve** · 03-08-2016, 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by therudeness

so now the question is.. do i shell out for the V6 BC's or the Vectors, or go for the cheap Chargers which may be slightly overkill for a scaled setup.

i like how people are saying the chargers turn on a dime though...

IME, the Vectors turn a bit quicker in most conditions but the Chargers are really great skis, plenty nimble and IME ski everything just fine. I put more days on my Vector BCs than my Charger BCs but not by much and note that I do lots of touring in May, June and into July most years. I dunno about the V6 BCs, although I can say that I'm only lukewarm re my V8s. If I were to remake that purchase decision I'd get smooth based Chargers instead. Different stix for different hicks. V6 BC might be great for dog hair tree skiing.

sb · 03-08-2016, 06:28 PM

My vector bc skis usually get the nod over the charger bc rig 9 times outta 10.

**therudeness** · 03-08-2016, 08:29 PM

Chargers are on sale for $540 CAD which works out to about $400 USD.. mec.ca

Vector BCs are $800 CAD ~ $595 USD. They're also on Backcountry for $460USD. At only $80 CAD difference maybe i should just go for the vectors. Skip the tax going Backcountry too..

**Aenigma** · 03-08-2016, 10:36 PM

Went for it and got a pair, since they were $427 on OMC Gear, with free shipping. They only had the white topsheet in a 180, but that just means I won't be hauling around as much snow on my skis.