Electric Bike Thread

[rod9301]

Yes I agree. I’m just particularwith some of my geo numbers and none of the 180 rear bikes fit me , also considering price.
Ideally I’d like norco or commencal to make their high single pivot bikes in a 180 model. The motors can chew chains and cassettes so they could put a rohloff e14 hub within that high pivot. Run one chain from the chainring to the rohloff within the pivot another chain from the rohloff to the rear wheel without derailleur. Bomber, less unsprung weight, stronger wheel, centralized weight, would help keep cs tight without having to squeeze in links/pivots behind the motor. HSP bikes aren’t terrible pedalers but they’re not great so emtb would be a good app

I bought my 180 mm haibike nduro 10.0 for 5,000. Really good components

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[toast2266]

Brose and shimano both have smooth intuitive power.
The weight was my question and it seemed like you drifted all around it. My rune was/is over 35lbs and my scout is 33. Could I make them lighter? Yes. Would I ? No. If I did it’d only be for the uphill. I wouldn’t want a 28lb bike for downhills of any sort. Syndicates v10’s a few years ago were down to 32lbs in large. They’re now 34-35 even though they could be lighter. Yes I’d think I’d notice 4 or 5 pounds but I’d think it’d be negligible. Obviously a 50 lb bike is going to have more noticeable drawbacks over a 35lb bike. A 40lb bike is fack all. I’ve pedaled countless miles on a 40lb freeride bike up and down. Never occurred to me to make it lighter on the downs until the clock was involved

The weight on modern enduro and DH bikes has settled out due to durability issues. Sure, a couple companies were getting into 32-33 DH bikes, and ~27 lb enduro bikes. But they were breaking. A lot. So they got a bit heavier, and now they hold up reasonably well. If durability wasn't an issue, I think most people would take a lighter bike. If you're saying you wouldn't, then I think 1) you're in the minority, and 2) you're full of shit.

And unlike regular bikes, the extra weight on ebikes has nothing to do with durability. Take away the motor and battery, and those things are more or less just a modern, mid-travel bike that'd weigh 30-ish lbs, or maybe a bit less. The Levo is basically a Stumpjumper (except with way longer chainstays, which seems to be required due to the Brose motor), and the Shuttle is about half way between a Mach 5.5 and a Mach 6 in terms of geometry, travel, etc. So, again, my point is that the noteworthy differences and advancements in these bikes is going to revolve around the motor and battery.

And for whatever it's worth, I didn't find the Shimano's power delivery to be all that smooth or intuitive. There wasn't a huge difference between some of the settings, and the power came on much too quickly.

[grinch]

I bought my 180 mm haibike nduro 10.0 for 5,000. Really good components

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Damn! I guess that was on sale. Lot of bike for that. Fit is a thing with me. I need extra stand over and shorter chainstays. I’ve been looking at Shimano esteps equipped bikes because they seem to have the shortest chainstays and Shimano has been looking after customers rather than the bike companies.
After selling my dh bike I built my enduro bike up with a coil rear shock and 180mm fork ,and for a bike I could still pedal up the hill , it didn’t give away too much to the dh bike. For that reason I’ve been looking at 150/160 bikes and also because they fit me better.
Commencal has old stock from this year starting at 4000usd. Good fit for me and I’m thinking I could long stroke it and make it 160rear/180front

[grinch]

The weight on modern enduro and DH bikes has settled out due to durability issues. Sure, a couple companies were getting into 32-33 DH bikes, and ~27 lb enduro bikes. But they were breaking. A lot. So they got a bit heavier, and now they hold up reasonably well. If durability wasn't an issue, I think most people would take a lighter bike. If you're saying you wouldn't, then I think 1) you're in the minority, and 2) you're full of shit.

And unlike regular bikes, the extra weight on ebikes has nothing to do with durability. Take away the motor and battery, and those things are more or less just a modern, mid-travel bike that'd weigh 30-ish lbs, or maybe a bit less. The Levo is basically a Stumpjumper (except with way longer chainstays, which seems to be required due to the Brose motor), and the Shuttle is about half way between a Mach 5.5 and a Mach 6 in terms of geometry, travel, etc. So, again, my point is that the noteworthy differences and advancements in these bikes is going to revolve around the motor and battery.

And for whatever it's worth, I didn't find the Shimano's power delivery to be all that smooth or intuitive. There wasn't a huge difference between some of the settings, and the power came on much too quickly.

Those v10’s weren’t having any abnormal breakages/fact
Sub 30lb bikes get pinged around much like light weight skis do/fakt

If you say otherwise you’re in the minority or full of shit/fakt.......and you know it

[rideit]

That's why I am interested in ~33 pounds, that is a good weight for smashing all the things.

[toast2266]

Those v10’s weren’t having any abnormal breakages/fact
Sub 30lb bikes get pinged around much like light weight skis do/fakt

If you say otherwise you’re in the minority or full of shit/fakt.......and you know it

I mean, the frames weren't breaking. But most of those lightweight DH builds were making some pretty serious sacrifices in terms of tires, rim burliness, etc. Sure, you can put an XC handlebar on a DH bike. And it's not going to instantly snap or anything. But I sure wouldn't trust it for a season of hard riding.

But I'll grant you that it's not just a durability issue. There's a stiffness issue too. And those lightweight DH builds are most definitely not as stiff. But again, frame stiffness isn't the issue with ebike weights.

A sub 30 lb bikes get pinged around because bikes that weigh that little tend to have less travel, steeper angles, and shitty lightweight rubber. Make a slacked out ~160 mm bike with real tires that weighs less than 28 lbs and isn't a fragile, flexible mess and I'm all over it (and so will a lot of other people).

All that aside, have you seen what the average rider looks like these days? They're barely capable of getting over a couple of rocks, much less muscling a big bike around. Sure, you and I can get along alright on a 40 lb bike. But Joe Public Weekend Warrior Guy that has zero core strength and (at best) a passing knowledge of how to balance on two wheels isn't worried about the nuances of stability that +/- 5lbs is going give him. He's worried about trying not to fall over as he precariously balances around a moderate switchback, and in that situation, extra weight sure as shit is not helping anything. And why does all that matter? Because that's the guy that makes enough money to buy these things, so at least in North America, that's the demographic that bike companies are catering to. So no, the majority will not be clamoring for more weight on their mopeds.

[grinch]

I used to pedal my bullit with a boxxer on 70km rides through the mountains. I did put it in the steep angle and slide the clamps down the sliders though . Sadly those days are loooong gone.

On another note. Someone should build dummy motors to fit in place of the motors with regular cranks and bb’s. I was thinking I’d go with Shimano e steps because it’d be the cheapest option to have a back up esteps 7000 I could toss in if the original motor had to go back for warrantee. Most have 2 year warrantee but they can have premature failure and warrantee can take a while. E steps 7000 backup would be equivalent in price to having 2 back up dropper posts. Dummy motor would be nice to pop in and ditch the battery on occasion or depending where you’re riding

[jm2e]

Toast,
With all due respect, for a journalist/reviewer guy you’re all over the place on this.
If you simply have a personal bias against Ebikes ala DaveVT then just come out and say it. It’s a perfectly valid position to hold.
But your arguments against are weak and all hinge on the unspoken reality that technology will soon nullify them (weights will improve, batteries will get lighter, motors will get smoother). But your stance relies on “these things aren’t really bicycles” or a detour into why DH bikes are still in the mid 30# and that people who don’t crave light bikes are full of shit.
I usually appreciate your contribution, but right now I’m not buying it. Every argument you make is invalid with me.

I fucking love my heavy alloy Enduro and DH bikes. Knowing that I can abuse the fuck out of them gives me a hardon.

If I could get a shuttle or chairlift or helicopter to the top of all my big downhills I’d take it in a second. So why is getting a little electric motor pulling me to the top suddenly the thing that invalidates the sport?

I have little interest in being propelled downhill by anything other than gravity. My ability to brake and my mediocre skills are the only thing slowing me down. So what fucking would it make if I coast down on a bike that’s extra 15lbs still leaves my combined mass on the trail less than 75% of the people out there?

I’m not competing against anyone other than myself, so why is everyone so interested in whether I’m cheating? Where’s the victim here?

And what if I am a fat uncoordinated dentist who’s hoping for some outdoorsy fun in my midlife crisis? The argument that outdoor activities should only be allowed for a select few healthy, white, upper middle class men didn’t originate with the Ebike.

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[mtngirl79]

All the people who have worked on securing access and cultivating the image of mountain bikers as a group that hikers and horseback riders are willing to share trails with are the "victims".

Now we have a group on motorized vehicles riding where they are not allowed saying fuck you, Ill ride my motorized bike where ever the fuck I want.

So sure, they dont go THAT fast. In theory, it shouldn't be a problem. Except, these people who dont give a fuck and will ride their moped where ever the fuck they want... do you think they arent going to spend the couple hundred dollars or whatever it ends up costing to buy the kits to make their mopeds faster and more powerful when they come out? And you know they will...

See, if Im going to share space with someone... or a lot of someones, if I want it to be pleasant I not only have to care about my needs and concerns, but also those of the other users...

Your emopeds are not bikes. Advacate for access as your own user group.

[mtngirl79]

And what if I am a fat uncoordinated dentist who’s hoping for some outdoorsy fun in my midlife crisis? The argument that outdoor activities should only be allowed for a select few healthy, white, upper middle class men didn’t originate with the Ebike.

You need to have a fair amount of disposable income to afford an ebike... so basically you are claiming not allowing ebikes is discriminating against the small segment of people able to afford a 5,000 toy healthy enough to sit on a bike and make the pedaling motion but not healthy enough to get into good enough shape to actually pedal the bike uphill with their own power...

Thats kind of ridiculous.

[grinch]

Doesn’t look like anyone is changing their stance for or against. We all know each others opinions at this point. We’ve gone over the same things at least 10x each. Obviously feel free to carry on with your thing but I’d rather talk about fun new toys. Commuters, cargo carriers , full sus, whatever. Need some personal vids in here or any for that matter

[Vt-Freeheel]

New norco just released. Looks amazing. I like the bottom of the line model . Lower end steps 7000 motor is lighter and quieter and not much lower torque. Lighter with the smaller battery. Wonder if it can use the bigger battery as an option
She’s also a looker

Looks like a lot of fun! Vid shows pedaling up and gravity fueled downhill.

[Shredhead]

Need some personal vids in here or any for that matter

My son and his girlfriend are in Asia for the month. They live at the base of Independence Pass and have a young Aussie that needs a ton of exercise.



Rudy and I have already logged 2k on my 30lbs enduro. If I had to peddle it up the pass, we probably wouldn’t make it nearly as far.

Pass is closed for the winter and there’s nobody up there. It’s a blast and the ebike let’s me ride more.

Riding up to the ice caves this afternoon.

[rod9301]

All the people who have worked on securing access and cultivating the image of mountain bikers as a group that hikers and horseback riders are willing to share trails with are the "victims".

Now we have a group on motorized vehicles riding where they are not allowed saying fuck you, Ill ride my motorized bike where ever the fuck I want.

So sure, they dont go THAT fast. In theory, it shouldn't be a problem. Except, these people who dont give a fuck and will ride their moped where ever the fuck they want... do you think they arent going to spend the couple hundred dollars or whatever it ends up costing to buy the kits to make their mopeds faster and more powerful when they come out? And you know they will...

See, if Im going to share space with someone... or a lot of someones, if I want it to be pleasant I not only have to care about my needs and concerns, but also those of the other users...

Your emopeds are not bikes. Advacate for access as your own user group.

For one, i don't want a more powerful e bike. The haibike i have is plenty powerful, i never use the high turbo setting.
My rides are 3 1/2 hours or less, and i get beat up by the downhills, so a bigger battery won't do much.

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[rod9301]

You need to have a fair amount of disposable income to afford an ebike... so basically you are claiming not allowing ebikes is discriminating against the small segment of people able to afford a 5,000 toy healthy enough to sit on a bike and make the pedaling motion but not healthy enough to get into good enough shape to actually pedal the bike uphill with their own power...

Thats kind of ridiculous.

There you are again. I thought you went away.

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[smartyiak]

New norco just released. Looks amazing. I like the bottom of the line model . Lower end steps 7000 motor is lighter and quieter and not much lower torque. Lighter with the smaller battery. Wonder if it can use the bigger battery as an option
She’s also a looker

Still 50#...but now cheaper than a non-moto Yeti or Pivot.

[Name Redacted]

How long till Peloton starts making electric stationary bikes? Total game changer.

[skaredshtles]

How long till Peloton starts making electric stationary bikes? Total game changer.

This, sir, is fucking hilarious. Well played...

[toast2266]

Toast,
...

To be clear: I'm definitely biased against ebikes. But that was pretty well covered earlier in the thread, so I didn't see the need to fully rehash it in this discussion. But to recap:

1) I dislike ebikes because of their threat to access. Mountain bike access is difficult and murky enough as it is, and ebikes introduce a whole new conundrum that isn't really needed right now. This isn't helped by the fact that, locally, literally every single ebike encounter I've had has been with older, fairly clueless gentlemen who are riding on trails where ebikes aren't allowed. Roughly 50% are in jeans and no helmet.

2) Access issues aside, and ignoring the fact that most of the trails I like to ride are closed to ebikes, I too recognize the potential for fun on a competent bike that goes uphill easily and goes downhill more or less like a good mountain bike.

3) The current crop of ebikes, at least of the ones I've ridden, go uphill great but don't descend like a good mountain bike. Don't get me wrong - they descend pretty well and they're impressive. But they don't rip the shit out of downhills like my 33 lb enduro bike (or my 38 lb DH bike). There's a bunch of people in here saying that the extra weight doesn't matter, or that the weight's actually a good thing. And I'm saying, all biases and advocacy issues aside, I think they're wrong. The weight matters. The ebikes are less fun on the descents. Now, that doesn't make them un-fun, and I still think they'd be great on mellower trails. But for me, the trade off on the descents is still significant. And I hadn't gotten into this before, but I also think that the lighter weight ebikes aren't going to hold up well to real abuse - they didn't get the weight that low with some magic formula that retained a bunch of burly parts.

4) Which brings me to the point I was making above: I think most of the advancements in ebikes over the next few years are going to revolve around narrowing the gap between them and normal bikes. And that means refinements to the motor and power systems. Basically, making them lighter without giving up huge ground in terms of power and battery life.

5) And getting back into my biased mode: the fact that the refinements to ebikes are coming in the form of motor and power plant improvements highlights the fact that they are motor driven, they're not the same as mountain bikes, and with respect to trail access, the people that are acting like they're the same as mountain bikes can fuck off.

[Bunion 2020]

My son and his girlfriend are in Asia for the month. They live at the base of Independence Pass and have a young Aussie that needs a ton of exercise.



Rudy and I have already logged 2k on my 30lbs enduro. If I had to peddle it up the pass, we probably wouldn’t make it nearly as far.

Pass is closed for the winter and there’s nobody up there. It’s a blast and the ebike let’s me ride more.

Riding up to the ice caves this afternoon.

And that is a perfectly fine and legal use of your E-bike. Kudos I am jealous.

How long till Peloton starts making electric stationary bikes? Total game changer.

5) And getting back into my biased mode: the fact that the refinements to ebikes are coming in the form of motor and power plant improvements highlights the fact that they are motor driven, they're not the same as mountain bikes, and with respect to trail access, the people that are acting like they're the same as mountain bikes can fuck off.

!

[Dantheman]

I’ve never ridden an ebike ever

Wait, the biggest moped cheerleader on the block has never actually ridden one? Literally LOL'ed.

How long till Peloton starts making electric stationary bikes? Total game changer.

"I'm telling you man, my heart rate is just as high the whole time. I just ride twice as far!"

[SumJongGuy]

How long till Peloton starts making electric stationary bikes? Total game changer.

Real motorcycle, Vespa, or GTFO!

[grinch]

Wait, the biggest moped cheerleader on the block has never actually ridden one? Literally LOL'ed.

!"

What’s the difference between me as a supporter and all non suppprter(except two) supporting our opinion? Taking into account none have tried them in those groups mentioned(apart from the noted 2)
Answer: I read and watch tons of info with an open mind and try and analyze it with integrity and without ego
The opposite can be said for the others
Their bias is evident when they barely read any opposing counter points or watch any videos supplied. Skim over posts and cherry pick facts that they can add non related factors to support their bias and just call them stupid names such as mopeds or say they should be on mx tracks
Almost none have done any kind of research but they certainly have their opinion. Uninformed opinion discounts you and just makes you look like an idiot whether you want to admit or not, but please carry on

[Bunion 2020]

Uninformed opinion discounts you and just makes you look like an idiot whether you want to admit or not, but please carry on

Signature worthy.

I understand that you are entitled to an opinion as we are all, informed or not, that is the beauty/curse of the Internetz.

I have ridden dirt bikes off and on for 30 years, I have mountain biked for 30+ years. I know the difference between motorized and non-motorized.

I also understand that when agencies have a policy that is Non-motorized that they mean all types of motors are excluded.

That is not an opinion.

[grinch]

Sweet!! Wasn’t expecting to see a fly on on dirt as it only scheduled for a June release. Never too soon to trigger the self righteous