Electric Bike Thread

[skaredshtles]

8 more pounds off and I *might* be interested.

That's around how much my bike weighs. And it's definitely not electrified. Gonna be a few years... but they'll get there.

That reminds me, I should go for a bike ride.

[toast2266]

"Produce an EMTB that would convince the people sitting on the fence, or perhaps are not yet convinced that electric power is necessary on the trails."

I'm fairly positive electric power isn't necessary on the trails.

[skaredshtles]

"Produce an EMTB that would convince the people sitting on the fence, or perhaps are not yet convinced that electric power is necessary on the trails."

I'm fairly positive electric power isn't necessary on the trails.

It isn't. And I say that as an old, out-of-shape, chronically injured mountain biker.

[rideit]

That's around how much my bike weighs. And it's definitely not electrified. Gonna be a few years... but they'll get there.

That reminds me, I should go for a bike ride.

I have said this before, but I will buy one when:
They are ~33 pounds
Cost ~$5000
I am 60

[Bunion 2020]

Eglance - looking down to see if someone is on an ebike as they rip by.

Pretty soon you won’t be able tell.

I think that is 90% of the point.

[grinch]

I don’t know why anyone would want it any lighter. Most of our dh bikes are pretty much that weight and we move them around fine with more travel. There’s even talk amongst the seasoned emtb riders that it might be too light. After they’ve adjusted to the heavier bikes they’re liking the planted feel. Just talk but I think it’s definitely close to perfect . That lapierre can be trimmed of a couple pounds with some $ and not have lighter tires if needed. Because the motor is part of the battery tube, the cranks spin without friction like a normal bike , that bike can be a 30lb carbon enduro non emtb

Pretty funny how quick the anti emtb crowd change their tune after a tiny spin,young and old)

[rod9301]

I don’t know why anyone would want it any lighter. Most of our dh bikes are pretty much that weight and we move them around fine with more travel. There’s even talk amongst the seasoned emtb riders that it might be too light. After they’ve adjusted to the heavier bikes they’re liking the planted feel. Just talk but I think it’s definitely close to perfect . That lapierre can be trimmed of a couple pounds with some $ and not have lighter tires if needed. Because the motor is part of the battery tube, the cranks spin without friction like a normal bike , that bike can be a 30lb carbon enduro non emtb

Pretty funny how quick the anti emtb crowd change their tune after a tiny spin,young and old)

Totally agree. I have a 180 mm haibike, 53 lbs, and it's the best bike i ever had. I see no reason to be lighter.


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[toast2266]

I don’t know why anyone would want it any lighter. Most of our dh bikes are pretty much that weight and we move them around fine with more travel.

Sure, but go ride a DH bike on a "normal" trail. They feel like fucking pigs.

Based on my time on e-bikes, they're more or less fine on flowier, jumpier trails where maneuverability isn't really a factor. But on slower speed, more technical trails, the weight was fairly apparent. They didn't like to change directions very quickly, and it was harder to push them around in tight spots and sharp corners. Not saying that it was impossible or anything. But the extra weight was definitely noticeable, and mostly in a bad way. Anyone saying that they're glad the extra weight is there is just an apologist. This same discussion has been had with respect to regular bikes too - a small minority likes to talk about how extra weight is somehow better. And pretty much everyone ignores them.

[Sirshredalot]

I have said this before, but I will buy one when:
They are ~33 pounds
Cost ~$5000
I am 60

I think you guys are missing the mark. Why buy a pretend mountain bike instead of just embracing the fact that this toy is a light motorcycle?

I'll take a 75-100 pound bike with an ungoverned throttle and the power equivalent of, say, a 100-150cc motor.

Shoehorning this technology into a pretend bicycle is the wrong approach and precludes you from having something much more fun.

[skaredshtles]

I think you guys are missing the mark. Why buy a pretend mountain bike instead of just embracing the fact that this toy is a light motorcycle?

I'll take a 75-100 pound bike with an ungoverned throttle and the power equivalent of, say, a 100-150cc motor.

Shoehorning this technology into a pretend bicycle is the wrong approach and precludes you from having something much more fun.

I believe this to be true.

[TahoeJ]

Anyone saying that they're glad the extra weight is there is just an apologist.

This.

[grinch]

Sure, but go ride a DH bike on a "normal" trail. They feel like fucking pigs.

Based on my time on e-bikes, they're more or less fine on flowier, jumpier trails where maneuverability isn't really a factor. But on slower speed, more technical trails, the weight was fairly apparent. They didn't like to change directions very quickly, and it was harder to push them around in tight spots and sharp corners. Not saying that it was impossible or anything. But the extra weight was definitely noticeable, and mostly in a bad way. Anyone saying that they're glad the extra weight is there is just an apologist. This same discussion has been had with respect to regular bikes too - a small minority likes to talk about how extra weight is somehow better. And pretty much everyone ignores them.

You can notice that a bit when watching riders on the 50plus lb bikes. They also mention the need for more braking to get them slowed down on steeps. Watching the 40lb ones though, I’m not seeing that. All the Levo clips I’ve watched , they look quite normal . I’d bet after enough time on the 50lb ones you’d adapt to a degree. Have you tried the new carbon levo?

[grinch]

New norco just released. Looks amazing. I like the bottom of the line model . Lower end steps 7000 motor is lighter and quieter and not much lower torque. Lighter with the smaller battery. Wonder if it can use the bigger battery as an option
She’s also a looker

[grinch]

Totally agree. I have a 180 mm haibike, 53 lbs, and it's the best bike i ever had. I see no reason to be lighter.


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I bet. I keep leaning toward more travel like yours. Why not with the assist. Bet it’s fun af. I think 150 rear travel would be my minimum and hoping for atleast 160 and definitely putting a 170/180 fork on it

[toast2266]

You can notice that a bit when watching riders on the 50plus lb bikes. They also mention the need for more braking to get them slowed down on steeps. Watching the 40lb ones though, I’m not seeing that. All the Levo clips I’ve watched , they look quite normal . I’d bet after enough time on the 50lb ones you’d adapt to a degree. Have you tried the new carbon levo?

Haven't tried the Levo, but spent some time on the Shuttle which is in the same ballpark weight-wise, and runs on 27.5 wheels, so in theory it's maybe a bit more maneuverable. It seems like pretty soon, the differences between e-bikes will come down to power output, how long the battery lasts before it goes dead, and how smoothly the power is delivered. Which is all fine, but it kinda highlights the fact that these things aren't really bicycles.

And I'm sure people adapt to the weight. Just like if I rode a 40 lb regular bike for a while, I'd get used to it. But if I got back on a 28lb bike, it'd feel a lot lighter, more maneuverable, and better in almost every situation.

I mean, every bike out there is great as long as you don't have any reference point.

[grinch]

Haha never mind . I guess it’s unreasonable to think I’d get an honest answer. That’s some next level hop scotching to my honest question. You even got some trail access points in there . Bravo. Note taken. You can “quote” me if you want but at this point I find it pointless to reply. Good luck with your advocacy

[toast2266]

Haha never mind . I guess it’s unreasonable to think I’d get an honest answer. That’s some next level hop scotching to my honest question. You even got some trail access points in there . Bravo. Note taken. You can “quote” me if you want but at this point I find it pointless to reply. Good luck with your advocacy

I mean, it was an honest answer. And I didn't intend for any of what I said to stir up the advocacy discussion - that is what it is, and as far as I'm concerned, the power / longevity / battery nuances are irrelevant. Either a vehicle has a motor or it doesn't. Ebikes have motors. But that's not what I was getting at with my previous post.

My point was just that, of the ebikes I've ridden, aside from obvious differences in fit, the noticeable differences have been in the motor. Some of them deliver power much more smoothly. Some of them deliver more power. etc. So the Levo has a different suspension design than the Shuttle, but I'd wager that the far more noticeable differences will have to do with the electrics and motor.

All of the other differences that I'd pay attention to on a "normal" bike kinda get overshadowed by the motor and battery. And it's obviously not just me - look at this thread. Of the people that are clearly excited about e-bikes, most of the discussion of any new ebike revolves around the motor, battery, and the weight thereof.

[grinch]

Brose and shimano both have smooth intuitive power.
The weight was my question and it seemed like you drifted all around it. My rune was/is over 35lbs and my scout is 33. Could I make them lighter? Yes. Would I ? No. If I did it’d only be for the uphill. I wouldn’t want a 28lb bike for downhills of any sort. Syndicates v10’s a few years ago were down to 32lbs in large. They’re now 34-35 even though they could be lighter. Yes I’d think I’d notice 4 or 5 pounds but I’d think it’d be negligible. Obviously a 50 lb bike is going to have more noticeable drawbacks over a 35lb bike. A 40lb bike is fack all. I’ve pedaled countless miles on a 40lb freeride bike up and down. Never occurred to me to make it lighter on the downs until the clock was involved

[muted]

Wait, you've never ridden a heavy ebike before?

[grinch]

I’ve never ridden an ebike ever

[rod9301]

Sure, but go ride a DH bike on a "normal" trail. They feel like fucking pigs.

Based on my time on e-bikes, they're more or less fine on flowier, jumpier trails where maneuverability isn't really a factor. But on slower speed, more technical trails, the weight was fairly apparent. They didn't like to change directions very quickly, and it was harder to push them around in tight spots and sharp corners. Not saying that it was impossible or anything. But the extra weight was definitely noticeable, and mostly in a bad way. Anyone saying that they're glad the extra weight is there is just an apologist. This same discussion has been had with respect to regular bikes too - a small minority likes to talk about how extra weight is somehow better. And pretty much everyone ignores them.

Not true at all.
It goes much better over rock gardens. Turns are the same as my 20 lbs lighter Enduro, you just have to lean the bike.

I ride technical rocky trails and both uphill and downhill I like my heavy e bike better

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[rod9301]

I bet. I keep leaning toward more travel like yours. Why not with the assist. Bet it’s fun af. I think 150 rear travel would be my minimum and hoping for atleast 160 and definitely putting a 170/180 fork on it

But you can get a 180 mm front and rear.

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[muted]

I’ve never ridden an ebike ever

Only way to know is to ride one, the weight distribution is a bit different on paper than a normal DH bike (I haven't ridden one either)

Not true at all.
It goes much better over rock gardens. Turns are the same as my 20 lbs lighter Enduro, you just have to lean the bike.

I ride technical rocky trails and both uphill and downhill I like my heavy e bike better

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I would love to see some video of you riding your ebike on tech trails, got any?

[grinch]

But you can get a 180 mm front and rear.

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Yes I agree. I’m just particularwith some of my geo numbers and none of the 180 rear bikes fit me , also considering price.
Ideally I’d like norco or commencal to make their high single pivot bikes in a 180 model. The motors can chew chains and cassettes so they could put a rohloff e14 hub within that high pivot. Run one chain from the chainring to the rohloff within the pivot another chain from the rohloff to the rear wheel without derailleur. Bomber, less unsprung weight, stronger wheel, centralized weight, would help keep cs tight without having to squeeze in links/pivots behind the motor. HSP bikes aren’t terrible pedalers but they’re not great so emtb would be a good app

[grinch]

Only way to know is to ride one, the weight distribution is a bit different on paper than a normal DH bike (I haven't ridden one either)?

I guess every bike has different weight distribution. Some are heavier top, some bottom, and some at the outer ends with wheels and/or dh fork. Battery on the down tube I’ve heard is noticeable but motors are central. Overall weight of the bike is probably the biggest factor, not to say distribution won’t have an affect though