ON3P SKIS Discussion

[iggyskier]

In Blister's defense, they haven't had a BG to hang onto for awhile (last pair we full on sent was 2014 I think). So they've only been able to ski it a week here or there, and as with Bachelor the last time they had it, they don't control the weather. As such, I wouldn't put the fact that they haven't had the new ones in powder on them. We just don't have a lot of skis to give away, so hard for us to spare pairs at certain times.

Now, even with a pair for them to keep, based upon the feedback we've gotten, I don't think they will find it is the ski for them. Pretty clear we're at odds with them on the ski's performance (as Jonathan can attest, we've sparred over beers from time to time over the design and the benefits of pintails), but we're making an effort this year to get them a couple of models so they can work on more complete reviews over an extended period of time.

[jackattack]

Send supergoats, wait for benjamins.

If skinny kids’ experience on BG’s are similar to mine on the SG then I totally get it. Slays all types of crust. Does not get caught up on rotten rained-on freeze-thaw under dust. Slashes surfs and carves up 3D snow. Rails SOFT groomers as long as you don’t turn... much.

Seriously considering selling all my other charger/pow skis.

[steveski]

...Seriously considering selling all my other charger/pow skis.

Don't worry I'm sure this thought will pass.

If it doesn't than yes, SG/BG the all holy grail!

[robnow]

I dont understand what blister has against the billygoat. Their most recent deep dive comparisson on the confession pretty much called it a unstable s7. They havent even ridden it in powder yet wtf.

Also found this in their comment section:
«That last iteration of the Billy Goat I spent time on was the 191 cm from, what – 4 years back? (You can still read my review of it on the site.) And that ski was a freaking battleship, and would have equalled or probably bested the 190 Bibby in terms of a sheer chop destroyer. The current 189 BG is not that ski. So, no, if supreme stability in chop at speed is what you are primarily looking for, then we would rank the 190 Bibby higher.»


This doesnt make sense, having owned 5 generations of the bg dating back to 2010 they have only gotten more dialed and better every year. The last few seasons they have gotten easier to ski while still retaining the same level of chargeability. I have not skied the asymmetrical taper version yet, but it seems to be such a small detail that it wont matter much. Am I wrong?

I can ski through chop faster on my BillyGoats than on my Legend Pro 105s and yet they are more pivoty and playful in tight spaces. WTF?

+2

Exactly WTF, an unstable S7, NO, its the exact opposite. Stable as ****. I don't think the Asym has changed the ski that much, this being my third version of the BG since 2010. Definitely still a very charge worthy yet versatile ski.

I saw the link to that Blister comparison wondering what they would say. I have noticed more of their group into more forward mounted skis in general.

[Bandit Man]

Blister tests gear for a living. They try to be objective, but clearly have their biases.

Oh well, too bad they think the Bibby Pro is a good as it gets. They are missing out skiing shitty skis while I enjoy my Billy Goats.

[division.bell]

Somewhere I posted about the probability of not making it through the season without a pair of Billy Goats in the quiver after selling my beloved 12/13 191's...received and promptly put holes in my new 189 BG's today.

Thanks again to Scott/Jay and everyone behind the magic curtains at ON3P for another set of amazing skis, you guys continue to impress year after year.

Little predrill teaser pic.

[Kopi_Red]

Seriously considering selling all my other charger/pow skis.

Whoa! Now you're just talking crazy. I have a hard time believing that you'd thin your Megawatt quiver...

[TAFKALVS]

Somewhere I posted about the probability of not making it through the season without a pair of Billy Goats in the quiver after selling my beloved 12/13 191's...received and promptly put holes in my new 189 BG's today.

Thanks again to Scott/Jay and everyone behind the magic curtains at ON3P for another set of amazing skis, you guys continue to impress year after year.

Little predrill teaser pic.

Don't worry, they stayed in the family. Just handed them off from Kai to ACH.

Whoa! Now you're just talking crazy. I have a hard time believing that you'd thin your Megawatt quiver...

Don't question the magic of the goats. Between them and the legend 106, my quiver is feeling very excessive. A lot of skis are going up on the chopping block.

[Kopi_Red]

My quiver is feeling very excessive. A lot of skis are going up on the chopping block.

[2FUNKY]

Lol

[Sessiøn]

Blister tests gear for a living. They try to be objective, but clearly have their biases.

Oh well, too bad they think the Bibby Pro is a good as it gets. They are missing out skiing shitty skis while I enjoy my Billy Goats.

I think my opinions on Blister are pretty clear. I will always defer to the the mag collective over a review site that has to monetize itself somehow.

[waxoff]

I think my opinions on Blister are pretty clear. I will always defer to the the mag collective over a review site that has to monetize itself somehow.

Without me picking a side in this dispute, I think it's not more than fair to say that the fondness for the Bibby from the Blister guys was founded way before any money was involved in their reviews. Just saying...

[Self Jupiter]

Without me picking a side in this dispute, I think it's not more than fair to say that the fondness for the Bibby from the Blister guys was founded way before any money was involved in their reviews. Just saying...

So you’re saying you have inside info that money is now involved? 🧐[emoji41]

[TahoeJ]

I don't think Blister is swayed by money at all - but I do think they are biased towards access and if a company is really kind towards them it goes a long way. I don't care how much you try to avoid it, it's extremely difficult not to let that sort of thing have some effect on you. No one is immune, especially with so many good skis out there and what is likely a lot of "everything else considered equal" kind of decisions. Whatever, they try to do a good, honest job... but they shouldn't review a pow ski without taking it out in some proper winter pow.

I got some 91mm Black Crows orbs last spring just to mix it up a little (sorry ON3P, you know I love you)... took them out in some spring snow and they felt grabby and I spent the rest of the summer thinking i hated them. Got them out this year on some cold early season groomers at Mammoth and was really impressed. It's important not to jump to conclusions.

[waxoff]

So you’re saying you have inside info that money is now involved? 🧐[emoji41]

It doesn't take inside info for that. Their reviews are now business also, as parts of the reviews have to be bought for access. So yes, money is now involved.

[mattig]

It doesn't take inside info for that. Their reviews are now business also, as parts of the reviews have to be bought for access. So yes, money is now involved.

9 out of 10 mags read that as implying manufacturers pay for reviews. Yes, they charge money to consumers for some stuff now. I'd much rather they do that than take money from manufacturers.

Even then the point raised above about "who's nice to them" is valid for anything. Just like when an Amazon seller provides a free widget in exchange for a review. Those reviews are more likely to be favorable.

All in all, I like what they're trying to do especially if they keep getting better at it, and remain responsive to feedback.



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[slowroastin]

I like Blisters reviews for the most part. Especially for the dimension and weight measurements. Their podcasts are very cool too.

I also read and watch abetterski.com reviews. While they only get out on what they can demo, they offer another angle of insight with a less serious approach. I especially like their reviews on the current on3p skis. Its what sold me on my Wren98’s.

Their Billygoat review is of the previous generation, but he seemed to really like the ski. And the short video review looks like good powder conditions. So you know they were in their element.


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[kid-kapow]

wrt Blister vs the mags -> listen to the intro on Powder week (aka the movie they made to introduce it), then look up certain cognitive heuristics such as priming/anchoring/availability heuristic and listen to the same introduction once more. I for one find it baffling that their intro pretty much admits that their/mags usual modus operandi in trying skis is pretty much worthless due to the complete lack of any length to the testing - both wrt to time one the skis and across different conditions, yet their solution is to try a vast number of skis, all at the same time and also while the people who are pushing the skis are given free reign to tout all the positives of their products. For that reason their findings for me is at best a starting point - it is def not where i go looking for comprehensive tests. I much, much prefer Blister's method of describing how they find a ski to work given a continuum of different axis/parameters. Sure, i am no fan of having to pay for content, nor is their method and findings necessarily spot on - but still, i think it is a lot more transparent, consistent and thought out than what i perceive that most mags do. Having neither read the test on the current BG nor skied them yet - though hopefully will soon, i cannot comment on that test in particular.

[mattig]

....

Yes, this. Cognitive bias awareness ftw

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[waxoff]

9 out of 10 mags read that as implying manufacturers pay for reviews.

First, sorry for the thread drift guys, will leave the Blister subject from this thread after this.

Second, answering your quote with a question: what's your source for those statistics?

Third, I like the Blister reviews a lot, especially their way if comparing the subject to other similar products. Just as I like all voices raised on this forum over just about any product. I understand all voices are biased one way or the other, be it for money, bro acceptance, or self image, and it's up to me to decipher them. Any insight is worth something, one just have to figure out where to use the grain of salt.

Fourth, to bring the thread back on track, from my understanding, in ON3P land, I would see myself primarily as a Wren skier, still eagerly awaiting the next 110+ waisted Wren offer, at the same time wondering if I cocked up not signing up for the SG's, very intruiging skis..

[whyturn]

I skied my 186 last gen BGs in cut up afternoon pow and they just charged through everything. Quick in the trees and fine on soft groomers. Such a good Ski

[kid-kapow]

yeah, sorry for helping derail the thread.

perhaps a silly question - but i understand that on3p releases next year models as they are made available late season, and not during the next few weeks like everybody else. Am i understanding this correctly?

That being said - I really like this years graphics, especially the various wrens (that graphic is growing on me more and more, in spite of being seemingly quite straight forward) and steeples. New stuff is always new&exciting though! I for one am really excited to see their 2019 line up - including the previously mentioned evolution of a c&d'esque model with a BG like profile or some such as well as their new graphics. They will have their work cut out for themselves to top this year imo.

[happytimefunbox]

I skied division bell's old billygoats at brighton today in cut up pow and they destroyed all

[Huskier]

Four days in bottomless BC & WA pow. Skiing Protests.
All I could think: "These are fun as sh*t. But if I had my 'goats, I could REALLY get after it". You guys killed it this year.
Two more spots in the quiver that I want to fill with similar goodness: Stiff directional groomer & death ice skis in ~98 (Wren?, but alas, sold out) and my dedicated volcano setup (Steeples?). All I wish for is a skinny skimo-goat. Is that nuts?
Big, big fan. And as above, I stopped listening to Blister a long, long time ago.

[SupreChicken]

I got some more data on the 189 asym BG. I still need more time. Piecemeal review.

Agree with the “neutral stance on groomers” advice. It’s a little counter-intuitive to me to point em and let em run without having my shins mashed against my boots...it does work, but I’m still getting used to it. They pick up speed QUICK. They are a little better on groomers than the 191. I prefer the 188 Q to both the 189 asym and the 191 on firm snow. But whatever. 116-118 underfoot. A whiff of a detune would help. They all get back to the chair across the corduroy or through the kiddy park just fine.

But as auvgeek has noted, no shop can get the edges back to their initial goodness, so I’m a little leery of detuning.

They destroy soft snow in tight spaces. Check my IG for some tree laps.

The 191s I have are SLIGHTLY softer in the tail and that makes them just a touch easier to break free into a pivot. So in fresh snow, 189s are a little quicker edge to edge. In variable snow, I prefer the 191, just because that ability to break the tail free is a bit of a safety valve for me while going a little too fast in tight spaces. I usually achieve the tail break by pressuring my heels and stomping into the turn a little. Totally doable on the 191. The 189 resists my attempts. Auvgeek’s pair of stiffer 191 veneers have the same resistance. I think the standard layup is stiffer now than it was in 13/14. Or the 80 days I’ve put on the 191s has softened them slightly. Though I sort of doubt that just because they are ON3Ps.

Plenty of float for the 4-8” from yesterday. Any more, and I bet the 191 has an advantage.