the answer to "WTF is wrong with my boots?"

[XXX-er]

I think packout times with intuition liners depend on what kind of shell fit you got so if you are compensating for a too big of a shell with the liner it will pack out quick er, I have a sporty shell fit on my vulcans and the liners were too tight so I went back to intuition for new liners after 2years all buddy did was recook and crank all the buckles

[swissiphic]

Skied in intuition power wrap dual density liners for about, who knows, almost a decade of 60-80 ski touring/heli days/a few hill days/season. By year 5 or so the inner lycra stuff was tattered and i tore it all out and skied remaining seasons sock on foam; wore holes in heel pocket, stuffed blue foam in them and kept going. Dynafit tlt 4s shells, dynafit tlt all terrain shells/hardware wore out before the liners did.

[GrantN]

So I was tightening up my boots with the powerstrap and it ripped in half right where the two types of velcro meet. I wasn't pulling too hard & I'm not a strong guy by any means.

Anyone have this problem before? I can go without the powerstrap but then it feels weird with one tight and one not. Anyone with this problem know if dynafit sells straps or will they fix it? Is this a common problem?

[mntlion]

straps break sometimes, talk to the store you bought it from, any velcro strap will work. talk to your local sewing place, and they can repair it.

or buy boosters

[Ocean]

Mntlion

From something you said on another thread it sounds like you have a lot of experience with the Sidas Central High Slim Liner.

Do you think this liner would work okay with a TLT6? The Sidas website states that the liner is only suitable for 'high boots with 4 buckles' (I understand that 4 buckles doesn't mean anything, but it does imply a boot that is higher than the TLT6).

I fall between sizes in the TLT6 and I think an inner boot with 5mm foam and a fairly substantial tongue would get me into the smaller shell.

[mntlion]

Mntlion

Do you think this liner would work okay with a TLT6? The Sidas website states that the liner is only suitable for 'high boots with 4 buckles' (I understand that 4 buckles doesn't mean anything, but it does imply a boot that is higher than the TLT6).

I fall between sizes in the TLT6 and I think an inner boot with 5mm foam and a fairly substantial tongue would get me into the smaller shell.

ya, should work fine with a tighter shell fit. I use the central high in my tlt5's just fine

[cooks]

I recently bought a pair of backlands. I have very narrow heels and VERY low volume ankle/throat area, as well as some other issues that have generally made AT boots universally hopeless. With the backland, I downsized to a 0mm shell fit, managed to punch the shell inwards during the molding, frankenboot-ed some additional buckles, padded the liner, and added some bontex. It's now close to the fit I was looking for, or at least is far better than any AT boot I've ever had on my foot.

However, the stock liner has more in common with thin cardboard than a ski boot liner. I've never wished a liner was plusher until now - it's just uneccesarily painful. Like shin bang from skinning type of unnecessary pain.

So what liners do I want? I am willing to sacrifice a decent chunk of ROM and weight for something denser and more supportive. Some added stiffness and heel/ankle hold would be nice too.

So far, I've tried to try a stock dobermann wc liner, a super packed out powerwrap plug, a mostly packed out intuition fx race, and my zipfits from my alpine boots (downsized 95mm plug, so also pretty low volume liners). Out of all of these, I've only succeeded in getting the boot on with footbeds with the super packed out powerwrap. Even still, my foot is pretty uselessly crammed/piled up inside. I literally cannot get the boot on with any other liner aside from the stock ones. Ditching footbeds is not an option.

I see the sidas central high slim mentioned as a pretty low volume option. Anything else really low volume, but a denser foam than the stock backland liner?

And yes, I know I'm a fucking moron.

[dark_star]

Getting some rub on the top of my left foot... Starting to make a bony/tissue bump which is making things worse. Happens mostly in my rando boots (scarpa alien), which otherwise fit very well and which I love. The bootfitters I've spoken with in passing about it say there's not much I can do. Thoughts? I have custom insoles.

[mntlion]

So what liners do I want? I am willing to sacrifice a decent chunk of ROM and weight for something denser and more supportive. Some added stiffness and heel/ankle hold would be nice too.

Denser is thicker and you dont have room for that? maybe a thicker tongue on the boot, or just upper cuff, but I dont think you can fit in a thicker /denser liner on the lower foot portion, with the way that boot is fit. Maybe call intuition and talk to a person, adn see if they might make you a custom liner?

So far, I've tried to try a stock dobermann wc liner, a super packed out powerwrap plug, a mostly packed out intuition fx race, and my zipfits from my alpine boots (downsized 95mm plug, so also pretty low volume liners). Out of all of these, I've only succeeded in getting the boot on with footbeds with the super packed out powerwrap. Even still, my foot is pretty uselessly crammed/piled up inside. I literally cannot get the boot on with any other liner aside from the stock ones. Ditching footbeds is not an option.

thinner socks? grind the foot bed thinner? grind the boot board thinner? Are you putting the liner/footbed on your foot, and then stuffing that into the shell? (might be a better way for you)

I see the sidas central high slim mentioned as a pretty low volume option. Anything else really low volume, but a denser foam than the stock backland liner?

sidas might work, again its very thin, and med to high density overall. (if you need a 26 I have a new pair)

And yes, I know I'm a fucking moron.

yes, kinda. but mostly in a good way

[mntlion]

Getting some rub on the top of my left foot... Starting to make a bony/tissue bump which is making things worse. Happens mostly in my rando boots (scarpa alien), which otherwise fit very well and which I love. The bootfitters I've spoken with in passing about it say there's not much I can do. Thoughts? I have custom insoles.

so if you are getting rubbing its from movement and motion in the boot. So why is that happening, and how do you stop the movement. Odds are some more padding around the heel, or over the flex point, to help hold your heel in place will help, and then the bone spur might go down a bit. The symptom is the bonespur, the causation is the movement

[cooks]

Denser is thicker and you dont have room for that? maybe a thicker tongue on the boot, or just upper cuff, but I dont think you can fit in a thicker /denser liner on the lower foot portion, with the way that boot is fit. Maybe call intuition and talk to a person, adn see if they might make you a custom liner?

Denser (firmer), similar volume is what I'm after. Hoping for a little more support out of a similar volume liner basically. Higher volume and denser means I can't get boot on, higher volume and similar density doesn't really solve my problem.

Custom liner from intuition sounds promising, might give em a call and see what my options would be.

thinner socks? grind the foot bed thinner? grind the boot board thinner? Are you putting the liner/footbed on your foot, and then stuffing that into the shell? (might be a better way for you)

Footbeds are quikbeds - can't really grind enough as I need the mechanical correction of the posting. Already in a smartwool ultralight compression sock, although I could try a silk stocking sort of thing I suppose. Boot board in these boots seems kinda dumb, not sure how well grinding would work or how productive it would be. I might see if I can swap it for a thin bontex shim though, that would probably help.

I am putting the liner on outside the shell, then shoving the whole mess in.

Either way, I don't really need more volume overall. The liner just gets hung up around where the gaiter is tacked to the lower, and I can't really pry it apart like an overlap boot. My feet are pretty low volume at the met heads and across 3 thru 5 metatarsals so I'm reluctant to bump the shell out there.

sidas might work, again its very thin, and med to high density overall. (if you need a 26 I have a new pair)

I'd need a 24 or 25, so that unfortunately wont work, but thanks for the offer. Sidas sounds intriguing based on descriptions..

[Breomonkey]

I'll throw a new one out there.

Boots: 27.5 K2 Spyne, with either Sidas or Superfeet blue insole. Approx 2 finger fit. Intuition Dreamliner at the moment
Foot: average arch, high instep, bony ankle, thin chicken leg calf Measurements L=275mm R=270mm
General fit challenges: Bony bump on instep. is usually a pain point. I have trouble getting good heel hold. Fitters have added bananas/c-wraps around ankle inside and out. Latest mod was to add a plastic heel cup outside the liner. An i think we've got the heel locked. Ankle pressure is feeling better after the intuition. I used to get horrible red spots and pain on the points of my ankle. Almost every boot I try on. Grrrrrr.

The final problem is the pressure on the instep bump is causing numbness on the inside of my foot. The focus has been getting the heel locked before addressing this, but the couple fitters I've worked with all said, hmmm that's going to be tough. The pressure point is right under the buckle. Can the shell be ground from the inside to provide some contour?

I'm thinking of maybe trying a couple reco'd boots that have come up with the fitters. Mach1 LV, Redster Pro, Lupo. Interested to hear peoples thoughts on how to tackle on the boots and how to tackle the issue with my current boots.

[mntlion]

2 finger = ?? in mm?
spyne boot in the LW or MV?
overall I'm guessing that the next shell size down, and/or a narrower boot will help you a lot.

I like the idea of getting the heel back and secure first, then doing the other fitting work, once the foot is moving around less.

Are you looking to mod this boot more, or are you starting fresh?

[Breomonkey]

Spyne is the MV. I'll say 25mm fit, but not sure the best way to measure precisely. Here's some pics


Let's bring the lupo discussion here too. 8mm you say? I think I've got that in the 26.5 shell. Probably 10-11mm by my estimate. Waiting on the ID version with Powerwraps, but it sounds like the toe punch might be the way to go. And a pic of the toe with heel set full back since it's a clear boot. I know that's not the normal approach to evaluate.

[mntlion]

the K2s are a size too big ( and maybe too wide also)

the Lupo looks better in the 26 for size.

the K2, in a 26 might work too?

[cooks]

Buckles can be moved, at least sometimes. I have to do this:



It works suprisingly well since the new ladder placement pulls compression right along where my foot goes to really low volume. Sorta hard to get a picture of the punch, but it's there. Ignore all the other sharpie everywhere. The shell is ground out from the inside too a decent amount since it's a plug lower. The bone spur that it is accommodating is no shit about 5+ mm tall, so room can definitely be made.

I've had to do this punch on other boots, overlap boots are usually fine, tongue boots vary from sorta fine to not fine at all.

However, in the first picture, your foot doesn't look super high volume there. Especially if you're in the MV. Sure it's not something liner tweaks might be able to fix, or at least get you most of the way there?

[Breomonkey]

Figured so, thanks for that confirmation.

[mntlion]

good move cooks.

[Cocximus]

I really need to replace the two upper buckles on the khion. I hate having to use booster tongues all the time because the buckles can't be shortened... and they just suck.

What about using ratchet straps?
These guys seem to make badass buckles


Or the spectre bucklets, probally even better if I can get the right length

[Cocximus]

I recently bought a pair of backlands. I have very narrow heels and VERY low volume ankle/throat area, as well as some other issues that have generally made AT boots universally hopeless. With the backland, I downsized to a 0mm shell fit, managed to punch the shell inwards during the molding, frankenboot-ed some additional buckles, padded the liner, and added some bontex. It's now close to the fit I was looking for, or at least is far better than any AT boot I've ever had on my foot.

However, the stock liner has more in common with thin cardboard than a ski boot liner. I've never wished a liner was plusher until now - it's just uneccesarily painful. Like shin bang from skinning type of unnecessary pain.

So what liners do I want? I am willing to sacrifice a decent chunk of ROM and weight for something denser and more supportive. Some added stiffness and heel/ankle hold would be nice too.

So far, I've tried to try a stock dobermann wc liner, a super packed out powerwrap plug, a mostly packed out intuition fx race, and my zipfits from my alpine boots (downsized 95mm plug, so also pretty low volume liners). Out of all of these, I've only succeeded in getting the boot on with footbeds with the super packed out powerwrap. Even still, my foot is pretty uselessly crammed/piled up inside. I literally cannot get the boot on with any other liner aside from the stock ones. Ditching footbeds is not an option.

I see the sidas central high slim mentioned as a pretty low volume option. Anything else really low volume, but a denser foam than the stock backland liner?

And yes, I know I'm a fucking moron.

I have very small heels too, and small instep. I pretty much have the equivalent of a camping foam pad and a roll of duct tape in my boots. I also tried a bunch of liners. Zipfits leave a lot of toe room compared to any other liner. Even the zipfit classics leave me with more room up front once I get them in... but yes they are a bitch to stuff in and kinda suck to tour in after a while. After about 10 days they just got weird. I ended up going back to the original liner with extra tongues cut off some old liners. Great for the shions and taking up volume.
The backland is probably one of the worst boots out there for our heels. They are heel buckets. Try the tlt6 or khions. You will get a much closer heel fit, even if you go for a bigger size for your toes.

[mntlion]

I really need to replace the two upper buckles on the khion. I hate having to use booster tongues all the time because the buckles can't be shortened... and they just suck.

What about using ratchet straps?
These guys seem to make badass buckles


Or the spectre bucklets, probally even better if I can get the right length

can you move the buckles on the khion? redrill in another place on the shell so they work better for you?


or use the rachet thingsy

[Cocximus]

can you move the buckles on the khion? redrill in another place on the shell so they work better for you?


or use the rachet thingsy

I moved them to the tightest position. Still loose. The shell is pretty thin, where the ladder sits the plastic is thicker. Dunno if I drill a hole in the thin shell it might rip out?

[mntlion]

I moved them to the tightest position. Still loose. The shell is pretty thin, where the ladder sits the plastic is thicker. Dunno if I drill a hole in the thin shell it might rip out?

should be fine. Or find a buckle, that uses the same hole but sits further back?

or talk to a local boot fitter, and they can see the boot and the problem and see what they come up with?

[cooks]

I have very small heels too, and small instep. I pretty much have the equivalent of a camping foam pad and a roll of duct tape in my boots. I also tried a bunch of liners. Zipfits leave a lot of toe room compared to any other liner. Even the zipfit classics leave me with more room up front once I get them in... but yes they are a bitch to stuff in and kinda suck to tour in after a while. After about 10 days they just got weird. I ended up going back to the original liner with extra tongues cut off some old liners. Great for the shions and taking up volume.
The backland is probably one of the worst boots out there for our heels. They are heel buckets. Try the tlt6 or khions. You will get a much closer heel fit, even if you go for a bigger size for your toes.

For reference - My alpine boot is a size 24 scorpion 150 (old 95mm plug) with zipfits and slightly softened. My shell fit was toes lightly curled on my larger foot (left) and a very snug 0mm on my smaller foot (right). I have still had to line the inside of my right boot with JB weld and duct tape from the midfoot back through the heel and ankle, as well as the top of lateral forefoot through throat area.

I then bought backlands this small:


And did this in the initial heat mold of the shell:


(Sorry it's sideways, can't figure out how to fix it on my phone)

I'm aware that standing on a broomstick is not how the molding is supposed to be done, there is a reason we did it though. And it's a long story..

I also did a bunch of frankenbooting including replacing cuff t-nuts and bolts and adding a buckle directly to the cuff bolts to make the boot flex right and fit right when flexed.

So with all of that, it actually fits pretty well. The medial wall from the heel through midfoot is pretty close to vertical now, to give you an idea of how much we got it to move. It tours and skis pretty well now. Well enough for spring peak skiing, which is the only thing I plan to use this boot for.

The khion felt like a bucket on my foot. The tlt6 is a better fit out of the box. However, I have a giant medial cuneiform bone spur that does not fit in that boot. I had mercuries before all this and even with a bunch of straps on either side when it was on the punch, I still couldn't get enough room without the boot leaking horribly. Plus it was still pretty sloppy overall. Even did some super janky punching the entire mid and forefoot inward with a dibond jig. It was still too high volume or wide in places no matter how much bontex I could stack in there.

Width across the met heads usually isn't an issue for me (my forefoot measures 105mm wide unsupported fwiw, changes a ton properly supported obviously). Width and volume everywhere else is, which is why zipfits have worked so well for me.

[Ottime]

Okay, I'll try.

I've been in Solly Guns for years. Bought some Ghosts a number of years back, but rarely used them as the Guns felt like slippers on my feet. This season they finally really started to fall apart. The packed out liner was not too bad, as the shell fit was nearly perfect. The Ghost has a very similar last.

My Ghost liners are plush still. But by the end of the day, I start to get pain in my right inside ankle. And a little bit of general foot ache.

I assume I need to get that ankle zone grounded a bit. I also assume that the much stiffer (130 vs 95) boot accounts for this pain. Wider skis and harder snow days will cause more pain than narrower skis and softer snow.

Otherwise fit feels great. I once thought I just needed to break in the liner more, but after 15 plus days I. The boot I see little difference.

I live in a surf town and don't trust any of them shops near me. Nor do I trust any of the fitters at the hill. Other than finding a good fitter in Tahoe, any advice?