the answer to "WTF is wrong with my boots?"

[mntlion]

Thinking my liners are packed out...what intuition liner works best with Lange RX 130s and is similar in stiffness to a stock liner?

ask intuition directly.

depends on how your boots fit you, and what problem you are trying to solve by adding intuition liners

[The SnowShow]

ask intuition directly.

depends on how your boots fit you, and what problem you are trying to solve by adding intuition liners

The boots fit absolutely perfectly until the liners packed out. So I'd hope for something to give good performance and on-snow feel, be supportive but comfortable.

I will talk with Intuition but would be curious about people's opinions here.

[123ski]

Came back from the summer and my boots are KILLING ME. Its as if I just got new boots. Arch hurts, forefoot hurts. Lots of cramping.

This is 2nd season on these boots and they fit perfectly last year (KR2 Pro) which was an upgrade from the Krypton Pro in the same size which also fit perfectly.

What is causing this? Lack of exercise in foot muscles? Liners changed shape in my house all summer long (a few months went by that they weren't buckled all the way). This is my 10th season on my dfp footbed, think its finally lived past its life?

What do you recommend I try first? Remold liner with current footbed? Remold liner with new footbed? New footbed with no remold? Ski a few more times and see if it goes away?

[mntlion]

The boots fit absolutely perfectly until the liners packed out. So I'd hope for something to give good performance and on-snow feel, be supportive but comfortable.

I will talk with Intuition but would be curious about people's opinions here.

mid thickness, stiff flex, tounged liner from intuition, not sure what they call that right now.

[mntlion]

Came back from the summer and my boots are KILLING ME. Its as if I just got new boots. Arch hurts, forefoot hurts. Lots of cramping.

This is 2nd season on these boots and they fit perfectly last year (KR2 Pro) which was an upgrade from the Krypton Pro in the same size which also fit perfectly.

What is causing this? Lack of exercise in foot muscles? Liners changed shape in my house all summer long (a few months went by that they weren't buckled all the way). This is my 10th season on my dfp footbed, think its finally lived past its life?

What do you recommend I try first? Remold liner with current footbed? Remold liner with new footbed? New footbed with no remold? Ski a few more times and see if it goes away?

so how many days on this boot total?

check over this list and answer the questions.


So a few questions that you can answer that will help this out.

1) What is the shell fit like for length? Remove the liner, put your foot in the shell only, have your toes lightly touching the front of the boot and see how much room is behind your heel and the boots shell. Use a pen as a spacer and measure this for thickness. You want 5-15mm (1/8 to ½ inch) of room. If you have more then 25mm stop here

2) What is the shell fit like for width? Now center your foot front to back, (same amount of room behind the toe and heel) and is the width of your foot touching the sides of the boots shell? You want anything from lightly brushing to 2mm per side. If you have 3mm per side stop here.

3) Do you have any footebds? Most people find a off the rack, or full custom footbed more comfortable, and helps to hold the foot in place better, Get one.

So if you boot is within all of the above parameters we can go on. If you boot is just too big it is not worth working on. Your foot will still move around, you have to over tighten the buckles, and cramp to foot and cut off circulation (cold toes). Your boots are too big, and nothing will make that much better. Don’t waste your time, and money fixing a broken leg with bandaids. You need boots that are 1-2 sizes smaller. If you really want work on what you have, a boot fitter can do somethings, but it will not get much better, and will be $50 - $150 for not much progress.

So now that your boot is within a workable size range in length, width and with a supportive footbed we can go on to getting more info.


A few basic things to check first:

1) You just have one, thin, clean ski sock in the boots
2) You just have a sock in the boot? (no thermals, jewelry, etc)
3) Your toe nails are trimmed short?
4) They are YOUR boots and not borrowed?
5) You are just skiing in your ski boots? (not walking, driving etc)?
6) You dry your liners out at night either with a dryer or remove liners?
7) The left liner, the left footbed are in the left boot and this is on the left foot?
8) You are loosening the buckles if you are not skiing (while standing, on lifts, etc)
9) You are not skiing all day in new boots? They need time to break in
10) Buckles are pointing to the outside?


So your boots are the right size, AND you are doing everything else right, but still the boots are not 100% right. These questions will help a boot fitter will have a better understanding of the problem and can start to help you. Better Or Worse = (BOW)

1) BOW with the buckles tighter or looser?

2) BOW with thinner or thicker socks?

3) BOW with any footbeds (custom, stock, none, etc)?

4) BOW skiing, standing, or feet un-weighted (hanging off a chair lift)?

5) BOW thru out the day (and when does the pain start?)

6) BOW on the first vs the third day?

7) BOW on harder or easier terrain?

8) BOW with the power straps (velcro straps) tighter or looser?

9) BOW if you do any particular movements, or actions?

10) Any medical, health, or weight changes since you used them last?

[123ski]

60ish days on the boot so far. Properly fitting. Pain free all season last year. Same model as my previous 2 boots which were also mostly pain free.

1. Better with buckles looser, but I can't ski with them as loose as they need to be for pain to go away.

2. Better with thinner socks

3. Haven't tried with footbed removed since this is the orthotic I used in this boot and my precious boot. Has always been pain free until this season.

4. Better unweighted or Better with feet resting on chairlift foot bar (slightly weighted). Slightly better standing.

5. Pain starts halfway through first run. I'm almost in vomiting pain by the time I get to the chairlift. Takes about 15 minutes for pain to subside after I unbuckle, so I actually look forward to standing in the tram line or chairlift line to make sure the pain has time to go away before my next run starts.

6. Slightly better on third day vs first

7. Much better on easier terrain

8. No difference with power strap tight or loose

9. Better if I keep my forefoot as relaxed as possible

10. About 10-15lbs heavier than last season

[The SnowShow]

mid thickness, stiff flex, tounged liner from intuition, not sure what they call that right now.

Thanks, I'll look into it.

[oftpiste]

This is 2nd season on these boots and they fit perfectly last year (KR2 Pro) which was an upgrade from the Krypton Pro in the same size which also fit perfectly.

I have a similar issues going from KR pro to KR2 pro.Some pain on the outside of my left foot, but mostly it's been about not feeling like I'm really connected to the ski very well. Feels sloppy (yes, some of it is the skier) which was not the case in the original KR.

I'm 6'3", skinny ankles, wide-ish forefoot, high instep. Have had some punching and tweaking done by a very good fitter, but still feels off somehow. My suspicion is that this boot is more upright than the OG KR, and definitely more upright than the Atomic RS 150's I was in before that. These Atomics were the best skiing boots I ever had (again, many mods by a good fitter) but after putting new Intuitions in them (having worn out the original Intuitions) they never felt the same. They're also a motherfucker to get on and off if they're cold at all. I could also ski in them all day and felt very connected and comfortable.

I've got the KR2's at full forward lean with the wedge, and have added a spoiler at the back of the cuff, but it's still not enough and I think with my body type I'm just not getting put in that nice, forward position by the boot that the Atomics gave me. I need that help to get forward.

My question for you experts out there is: Can I get any more forward lean out of this boot? If not, what boots out there have the most built-in forward lean. I know the trend is toward more upright, but I just don't think that works for me.

[Cocximus]

What's the best source for boot fitting foam, preferably in Canada.

[Jack Beighle]

Does anyone have any experience dealing with stripped sole screws on the tecnica cochise? I was trying to swap my soles the other day and realized that the plug that one of the screws goes into is stripped. And now I cant get that screw out. Anybody dealt with this before? Any beta/suggestions on how to get the screw out? Could this be a warranty thing or will tecnica call pilot error?

[waxoff]

In what sole position is the spinning screw? Have you checked for a spinning T-nut? I had one of those on a first gen Cochise 120 front sole pad (rear screw). I managed to wedge a screwdriver on top of it (from inside the shell) hard enough to counter the rotation in order to get the screw out.

Edit; There were no damaged threads on the screw. I replaced it with a new screw but I still got the same poor results when I swapped soles next time...

[1000-oaks]

It's probably already been covered (I need to spend a few hours reading this whole thread sometime), but how much ankle roll is desirable for solid carving? Thought I read Bode likes his outside ankle to roll to the inside a lot during turns, but I wonder if too much pronation would move the knee axis away from being parallel with the boot hinge, and could cause problems when trying to absorb terrain undulations while in a long high-angle carve.

[mntlion]

I'll read and try to reply to this thread tonight.

[mntlion]

your foot is cramping ? (better on easier terrain, better in a few runs, you have to keep buckles tight etc)

maybe boot is a bit big on you? (liner packing out?) but strange that thinner socks are better?

I would try other footbeds? feet change over time and need different support.

60ish days on the boot so far. Properly fitting. Pain free all season last year. Same model as my previous 2 boots which were also mostly pain free.

1. Better with buckles looser, but I can't ski with them as loose as they need to be for pain to go away.

2. Better with thinner socks

3. Haven't tried with footbed removed since this is the orthotic I used in this boot and my precious boot. Has always been pain free until this season.

4. Better unweighted or Better with feet resting on chairlift foot bar (slightly weighted). Slightly better standing.

5. Pain starts halfway through first run. I'm almost in vomiting pain by the time I get to the chairlift. Takes about 15 minutes for pain to subside after I unbuckle, so I actually look forward to standing in the tram line or chairlift line to make sure the pain has time to go away before my next run starts.

6. Slightly better on third day vs first

7. Much better on easier terrain

8. No difference with power strap tight or loose

9. Better if I keep my forefoot as relaxed as possible

10. About 10-15lbs heavier than last season

[mntlion]

What's the best source for boot fitting foam, preferably in Canada.

your local boot fitting store?

any high density foam works, blue camping sleeping pads?

[mntlion]

I have a similar issues going from KR pro to KR2 pro.Some pain on the outside of my left foot, but mostly it's been about not feeling like I'm really connected to the ski very well. Feels sloppy (yes, some of it is the skier) which was not the case in the original KR.

I'm 6'3", skinny ankles, wide-ish forefoot, high instep. Have had some punching and tweaking done by a very good fitter, but still feels off somehow. My suspicion is that this boot is more upright than the OG KR, and definitely more upright than the Atomic RS 150's I was in before that. These Atomics were the best skiing boots I ever had (again, many mods by a good fitter) but after putting new Intuitions in them (having worn out the original Intuitions) they never felt the same. They're also a motherfucker to get on and off if they're cold at all. I could also ski in them all day and felt very connected and comfortable.

I've got the KR2's at full forward lean with the wedge, and have added a spoiler at the back of the cuff, but it's still not enough and I think with my body type I'm just not getting put in that nice, forward position by the boot that the Atomics gave me. I need that help to get forward.

My question for you experts out there is: Can I get any more forward lean out of this boot? If not, what boots out there have the most built-in forward lean. I know the trend is toward more upright, but I just don't think that works for me.

add more stuff on the back of the liner/shell? thicker foam, or even second layer? also moving your bindings more forward might help too?

[oftpiste]

add more stuff on the back of the liner/shell? thicker foam, or even second layer? also moving your bindings more forward might help too?

Thanks mntlion, adding another spoiler or more thickness to the cuff has been on my mind too. My binding mount position has always been just fine with the other boots, so I'd rather just get boots with more forward lean tan remount all my skis and get used to that new thing. Does anyone know of a list of boots and their lean angles, or has anyone compiled this info in their own research?

[mntlion]

Thanks mntlion, adding another spoiler or more thickness to the cuff has been on my mind too. My binding mount position has always been just fine with the other boots, so I'd rather just get boots with more forward lean tan remount all my skis and get used to that new thing. Does anyone know of a list of boots and their lean angles, or has anyone compiled this info in their own research?

So think about ramp angle (toe and heel) as well as the ankle to knee angle. Both effect balance

real angles are hard to find, as with some boots it varries with the size. (plus FIT is more important then the angles) all sizes, within a model, will have the same toe and heel height, but a 22 will be more angle, as the toe and heel are closer together than a size 30.
the F lean should be the same in most sizes but will also varie a bit, as upper cuffs usually are used in 2 sizes (22/23 are same uppers) so that will change things as well.


I would just add more stuff in the back of the liner of you need more F lean. Even stuff a glove in the back to test how much you want..

[oftpiste]

^^^many thanks.... as always!

[123ski]

your foot is cramping ? (better on easier terrain, better in a few runs, you have to keep buckles tight etc)

maybe boot is a bit big on you? (liner packing out?) but strange that thinner socks are better?

I would try other footbeds? feet change over time and need different support.

Thanks. I'll try thicker socks one more time and test BOW again. Either way I'll probably have my footbed looked at again

[nyskirat]

Aimed more towards the bootfitters of TGR, but what do you guys do to quell instep pressure that comes from liner thickness? PWs worked in my Cochise, but they're a PITA to tour in. Any other liners give a similar low-profile across the instep area? It seems most boots these days (outside of race boots) don't have removable bootboards, or else I'd try to see if shaving those down helped.

[mntlion]

thin the boot board
remove the elestic over the instep (that holds the tongue down)
grind the thick, black padding on the liner over the instep

[nyskirat]

thin the boot board
remove the elestic over the instep (that holds the tongue down)
grind the thick, black padding on the liner over the instep

So mostly liner surgery since I'm not sure how easy thinning a boot board is when its attached to the boot.

Are any of the intuition liners good for this besides the PW?

[mntlion]

if the intuition tongue is thinner then what you have, yes. No idea what thinkness you have, or the intuition liner thinkness.

[galibier_numero_un]

Is there ever a situation where thinning the boot board in the toe area is not advised?

• Lange XT-130 Freetour's, performance fit (10-11mm) - very similar to how I sized the OG Dynafit Titans which they replaced.
• I'm using my PowerWraps which were molded for my OG Titans.
• I also molded the stock liners which feel narrower in the toe area (molded with double toe cap, but before the boot was punched).

Symptoms:

The slightest (and I mean slightest) bit less vertical toe wiggle room in the right foot. I feel a slight bit of pressure above the base of the toes and up to the first knuckle. I'm guessing when I go out in single digit temperatures, my right toes will be colder, but it's a guess at this point.

So Far:

Two days ago, we punched the shell width (minimal punching), and this helped a bit. From this exercise, I realized that most of the problem is vertical, and my initial thoughts turned to the boot board. It's hard to determine if this pressure is a bit of liner "bunching", since the Powerwraps were molded for the Titans.

Analysis/Next Step:

While posting this, I studied it from a different angle, and realized that the pressure originates at the front buckle. It's as loose as possible - buckle bail fully extended and latched to the loosest notch on the ladder. I'd estimate that I need about one "notch" looser (possibly less) than is currently possible - basically make the buckle vestigial.

I'll ski buckle open next time out, and if this solves the problem, I see a few options:

• Get two instep buckle ladders (5 notches vs. 3 so I can go looser). This could be a problem if the instep "ladders" have a different contour (radius).
• Drill second holes in the existing buckles to locate them closer to the "ladders".
• Grind off a portion of the boot board, from the base of the toes, forward.

In terms of reversability, the buckle changes are the least intrusive. You can't easily add material back to a boot board, although as I write this, it dawns on me that adding back some neoprene might have it's benefits (insulation).

Thoughts?

Thanks!
Thom