the answer to "WTF is wrong with my boots?"

**mean guy** · 02-11-2016, 12:12 AM

Originally Posted by mntlion

rubbing is caused by movement and motion, and that is usually a good sign that boots are too big.

whats the shell fit like?

odds are a smaller/tighter/snugger fit will be better.

and play with you stance as well, both angles and width and see if that helps.

I think I was suffering from a combination of a packed out liner and a slightly large boot. I replaced the boots with the same model in a half size down and have a high hopes that it will turn out better. The fact that I was able to wear the half size down relatively comfortably before any break in is a huge indicator to me that the previous pair were too large all along.

**theetruscan** · 02-27-2016, 11:21 AM

Boots: Dalbello Lupo SP 27.5, ~10mm shell space left, ~15-18 right. Footbeds: Superfeet cork Vac. Liners: Intuitions: cooked twice. Socks: icebreaker ultralight ski socks. Boots have a few small punches and grinds, pretty substantial L-pads in both as I have little tiny ankles with high arches and wide forefeet.

I have two issues:

1. Near the top of the cuff, I develop a pretty nasty bruise right behind the bone on the outside of my leg. Feels like there's a tendon there, or something. It gets gross.

2. When I wear the boots for a few days, I end up with pretty noticeable heel flop unless I crank the shit outta the middle buckle. If I crank it down enough, I can compensate. Is 2.5 notches tighter reasonable, or do I have play somewhere in these.

Liners have ~50-60 days on them.

1) BOW with the buckles tighter or looser? - first problem unrelated. Second problem better with buckles CLAMPED THE FUCK DOWN.

5) BOW thru out the day (and when does the pain start?) - First problem ? Second problem worse throughout the day.

6) BOW on the first vs the third day? - both worse on 3rd, and more so on 6th.

7) BOW on harder or easier terrain? - worse on harder terrain.

**auvgeek** · 02-27-2016, 02:40 PM

Seems like Issue #2 would likely be fixed by a new liner...which may fix Issue #1 as well.

**theetruscan** · 02-27-2016, 02:53 PM

Looking at the boots and being less spacy, looks like the bruise is where the power wraps overlap ends. I'm betting I know the issue causing #1

**mntlion** · 02-27-2016, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by theetruscan

Socks: icebreaker ultralight ski socks.

So use a thicker sock on the smaller foot to remove some volume?

Originally Posted by theetruscan

1. Near the top of the cuff, I develop a pretty nasty bruise right behind the bone on the outside of my leg. Feels like there's a tendon there, or something. It gets gross.

wrap around liner (not a tongued liner?) ya, it happens with skinny legs. replace with a tongued liner, also check the upper cuff alignment, and that might need to get moved to the outside a bit

Originally Posted by theetruscan

2. When I wear the boots for a few days, I end up with pretty noticeable heel flop unless I crank the shit outta the middle buckle. If I crank it down enough, I can compensate. Is 2.5 notches tighter reasonable, or do I have play somewhere in these

its OK to have buckles different on L&R, your feet are not the same size (like everyones) so why not buckles different too? (and socsk, see above)

**gobbly** · 02-27-2016, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by gramboh

With proper fitting boots, do most people ski with them buckled all day or do they undo them on the lifts? I find it uncomfortable if I leave mine done up for more than a run or two, or if I am hiking and then skiing.

With a custom fit I don't unbuckle. That was how I knew the fit was right and worth the cost, I could stay buckled all day and still feel as good on the last run as I did on the first.

**theetruscan** · 02-27-2016, 05:40 PM

Originally Posted by mntlion

its OK to have buckles different on L&R, your feet are not the same size (like everyones) so why not buckles different too? (and socsk, see above)

thank you!

Thanks for the sock idea, that's clever. I will see if adjusting the cuff fixes the bruising before changing liners. I love the power wraps otherwise.

regarding buckles, I do run them differently boot to boot. I just found myself having to adjust the middle buckles on both feet down about 2.5 notches to restore heel control, and haven't had that happen suddenly before.

**old goat** · 02-27-2016, 05:49 PM

Thin heel wedges helped my heel lift a lot. I have very skinny heels and PW's too--which I found put me in the back seat a bit due to the volume up front. The wedges helped that too (along with using the rear spoilers). If your balance is good though, the heel wedges might put you too far farward.

**Stewy30** · 02-28-2016, 04:44 PM

Hate to say it, but it seems to me that PW + big L pads + cranking the crap out of the boots + still heel slop + bruising on leg equals your boot being too big or too wide for your needs. Did you try the 26 in the lupo? I imagine it would be insane tight on the bigger foot, but it's better to accommodate the smaller foot and do work on the bugger one.

For my skinny ass leg and ankle, I had to drop into a 95 lasted boot (tecnica r 9,5) with intuition to get the heel hold I wanted and blow out the forefoot .

The only other thing I can think of is a boot eliminator tongue. Not sure how you can navigate that with an overlap liner tho

**theetruscan** · 02-29-2016, 11:04 AM

Stewy, I don't think so. The shellfit is right both length and widthwise, and they skied pretty damned well for the first 45-50 days, then came apart. I assume I packed out the liners, but never had it happen so suddenly. If I could find a boot that fit like a lupo/krypton pro but with a slightly smaller heel cup life would be easier.

**TAFKALVS** · 02-29-2016, 11:26 AM

Not sure where to put this, but I guess here works.

The last few days of skiing I kept feeling like I was blowing though the flex on my right boot. No combination of buckling or cranking the power strap seemed to make a difference. It really didn't seem to bother me too much while skiing on groomers but in bumps I kept feeling my cuff bottom out into the lower shell.

When taking off my boots yesterday I happened to look slightly closer at my flex control bolts (lange rx 130). They are both missing on my right boot... I guess that explains it. Anyone got a couple extra flex control bolts for a Lange RX 130?

**mntlion** · 02-29-2016, 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by Leavenworth Skier

\
When taking off my boots yesterday I happened to look slightly closer at my flex control bolts (lange rx 130). They are both missing on my right boot... I guess that explains it. Anyone got a couple extra flex control bolts for a Lange RX 130?

any boot fitting store should have some? its a metric thread, so bike stores might too? or big hardware stores? the backing for the screw (Tnut) can be popped out, and bring that in to match threads.

If your other boot has 2 still, swap one over to the missing boot.

**TAFKALVS** · 02-29-2016, 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by mntlion

any boot fitting store should have some? its a metric thread, so bike stores might too? or big hardware stores? the backing for the screw (Tnut) can be popped out, and bring that in to match threads.

If your other boot has 2 still, swap one over to the missing boot.

So there isn't anything magical about the Lange flex bolts?

I figured I'd run 1 bolt in each boot until I got new bolts. Which hole makes the boot stiffer? top or bottom?

**mntlion** · 02-29-2016, 05:25 PM

Originally Posted by Leavenworth Skier

So there isn't anything magical about the Lange flex bolts?

no, they are very bolt like

Originally Posted by Leavenworth Skier

I figured I'd run 1 bolt in each boot until I got new bolts. Which hole makes the boot stiffer? top or bottom?

top? dont think it matters. test and see if you can feel a difference

**TAFKALVS** · 02-29-2016, 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by mntlion

top? dont think it matters. test and see if you can feel a difference

I seem to remember saying one bolt position was stiffer than the other.

**RShea** · 02-29-2016, 08:55 PM

Take one out and head to a good hardware store- biggest issue will be the same length (unless you have capability of cutting one that would be too long down properly), thread of course, and make sure it is not one that will rust- so stainless. If they do not have one, you should at least be able to get the thread info, and then measure up the bolt and see if you can source one online via google if standard sources mentioned by Mnt Lion.

**cooks** · 03-01-2016, 01:47 AM

Originally Posted by theetruscan

Stewy, I don't think so. The shellfit is right both length and widthwise, and they skied pretty damned well for the first 45-50 days, then came apart. I assume I packed out the liners, but never had it happen so suddenly. If I could find a boot that fit like a lupo/krypton pro but with a slightly smaller heel cup life would be easier.

I had similar issues in my kryptons. Had a pretty tight shell fit and got maybe 60 days total - 40, recook, then another 20 before it was totally trash.

The 98mm lasted scorpion is a pretty similar shape, but with a tighter medial wall, slightly narrower midfoot, deeper, more anatomical ankle, and narrower heel. Ankle width felt about the same. The 95mm scorpion (new one is 93mm I think) is super narrow from the midfoot back, even for a plug boot. All 3 boots have a similar overall last shape, although the 95 is much, lower volume.

Something like a zipfit or injected foam liner may not be a bad idea, either to make the kryptons work, or in any boot. I also have tiny ankles and zipfits make a world of difference.

**gregL** · 03-01-2016, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by Leavenworth Skier

I seem to remember saying one bolt position was stiffer than the other.

Most people leave the lower one in.

**TAFKALVS** · 03-01-2016, 10:09 AM

Originally Posted by gregL

Most people leave the lower one in.

Thanks Greg.

**concretejungle** · 03-01-2016, 10:35 AM

I had the same issue with my Lange's. Local ski shops were all out and the hardware store might work but I was worried about length. I call up Rossi and talked to someone in warranty and they're sending me a couple.

Off to buy loctite and I'll check them often now.

**Stewy30** · 03-01-2016, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by theetruscan

Stewy, I don't think so. The shellfit is right both length and widthwise, and they skied pretty damned well for the first 45-50 days, then came apart. I assume I packed out the liners, but never had it happen so suddenly. If I could find a boot that fit like a lupo/krypton pro but with a slightly smaller heel cup life would be easier.

I believe you. In the case of skinny ankles, in which case even if your forefoot width fits the boot properly, you have too much volume available in the heel and ankle. In which case I would see the solution being what cooks was saying about zipfit, or maybe buying the after market PW, not sure if the intuition liners you have in your current shell is the one that came with the boot or aftermarket, the pack out time on the aftermarkets are much longer. Otherwise, for boots, the Tecnica Mach 1 boot (nice and tight ankle/heel, limited pack out with CAS Liner) or again what cooks was saying - the Dalbello Scorpion.

**riser4** · 03-01-2016, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by Stewy30

the pack out time on the aftermarkets are much longer.

This belongs in the Padded Room in the 'Shit That Annoys You Thread".

**Stewy30** · 03-01-2016, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by riser3

This belongs in the Padded Room in the 'Shit That Annoys You Thread".

I've used both, and I noticed the difference. Am I wrong? I'll delete it if it is. Much more productive than trying to be a wise ass.

**theetruscan** · 03-01-2016, 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by Stewy30

I've used both, and I noticed the difference. Am I wrong? I'll delete it if it is. Much more productive than trying to be a wise ass.

Think you're right. Chatted with the bootfitter, and he said PWs are denser than the stock dalbello lupo/krypton PW-like liners.

**cooks** · 03-01-2016, 06:50 PM

This may have changed since, but the liners in my KR2s were basically a power wrap plug. Definitely denser, and a little thinner than a standard power wrap. The liner in the first year of the lupo sp was NOT the same liner. It was a higher volume, lower density foam, similar to a MV powerwrap.

I can't really comment on pack out times for any of them though. I've only had in an intuition branded powerwrap in boots that saw touring and inbounds use, and only skied inbounds in my kryptons with the stock liner, so comparing pack out times is tough. I will say though that I have had similar results with intuition liners in a tightly fitted boot skied primarily inbounds. They've all packed out to the point of slop much faster than average.

The mach 1 suggestion is a pretty good idea too. Midfoot back it was too wide for me, but the R9.8/mach 1 is one of the sweetest flex patterns of any boot out there IMHO. Really good boot if it fits.