Berthoud Photo/Conditions Thread (2010-2011)

[Danno]

There's no suggestion his friend abandoned him. As I understood it, the friend didn't have the means to easily hike uphill or search, so he did laps in the area looking for him. If that understanding is correct (and it may not be, we don't know all the facts), you can criticize for lack of knowledge and lack of gear and poor decision making, but don't say that his friend abandoned him.

Truth is, we don't know all the facts.

[montanaskier]

I think he was saying that the kid he picked up at Wolf Creek had abandoned his buddy because he had to go to work.

[BrianH]

Yes. The wolf creek rider just didn't feel like waiting around 15 minutes to make sure his friend (and his dog) were safely out of the woods. I would not want to rely on him on any excursions.

As for the BP incident, I do not know the facts and am trying not to second guess.

At an earlier season refresher course, there was a demo of avie rescue dogs. I asked the trainer if she took them skiing with her. She said no, dogs do not handle backcountry skiing well. (This last might need to be a new thread!)

[summit]

Very sad...

With gear, the search wouldn't have gone on for three days.

With gear maybe his friend could have found him the next pass through. Maybe he would have been alive... or the dog.

People who cannot get back up the hill to help (snowboarders, skiers with alpine bindings, AT/tele skiers who don't bring their skins) scare me as much as the people without gear.

ETA: I finally made a thread about this [ame="http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=212979"]PSA: When in the BC, *ALWAYS* bring your skins! (free stoke included) - Teton Gravity Research Forums[/ame]

[JoeStrummer]

Very sad...

With gear, the search wouldn't have gone on for three days.

With gear maybe his friend could have found him the next pass through. Maybe he would have been alive... or the dog.

People who cannot get back up the hill to help (snowboarders, skiers with alpine bindings, AT/tele skiers who don't bring their skins) scare me as much as the people without gear.

All good points. The last one seems to be de rigeur at Bert anymore.

I'll be up tomorrow, like 11-3 or so if anyone wants to get out. Could also do Butler or Trelease or Mayflower or whatever, pm if interesting.

[smitchell333]

The CAIC report has them traversing under the cliffs near high trail trees on the way to 7 mile. I thought the initial talk was Fingers. Anyone know where exactly it was?

Traversing under steep terrain is at least as bad as skiing it.

[bamboocoreONLY]

^yeah I have a feeling the entered near shop chutes or something and went to that midpoint traverse then went across, under the fingers.

[quienes?]

^yeah I have a feeling the entered near shop chutes or something and went to that midpoint traverse then went across, under the fingers.

So that would mean his buddy went all the way down 7 Mile ... twice ... got a ride back up and dove in again? Pass was closed at 11:30 am that day, so how was he getting rides? Those are lengthy laps.

[Danno]

Traversing under steep terrain is at least as bad as skiing it.

Really? Traversing under steep terrain in sketchy conditions certainly isn't good, but I would think one would be way more likely to trigger a slope to slide by skiing it than by traversing under it.

[fluxrad]

Really? Traversing under steep terrain in sketchy conditions certainly isn't good, but I would think one would be way more likely to trigger a slope to slide by skiing it than by traversing under it.

The trigger can be anywhere near the slope. You can trigger a slide above you just by cutting out the structural support of the slope above (think concavity). Someone was killed last year like this (I'll look for the report). I think the CAIC forecast for today discusses this happening at Butler Gulch. When I was doing avy 1 in RMNP we triggered a collapse (didn't slide because of slope angle) above lake Haiyaha just by entering the area.

(e: for content)

[sealtele14]

New to the forum and Berthoud. Would love to get out with someone tommorow. I have all my own gear and know how to use it. Shoot me a PM if anyone is interested.

[Danno]

The trigger can be anywhere near the slope. You can trigger a slide above you just by cutting out the structural support of the slope above (think concavity). Someone was killed last year like this (I'll look for the report). I think the CAIC forecast for today discusses this happening at Butler Gulch. When I was doing avy 1 in RMNP we triggered a collapse (didn't slide because of slope angle) above lake Haiyaha just by entering the area.

(e: for content)

I know that. Wasn't questioning that you could trigger a slide from below. Heck, you can remotely trigger a slide from hundreds of yards away! That doesn't mean that walking near a steep slope is as likely to trigger it as skiing that slope. So, what I was questioning was the notion that traversing under a steep slope was at least as bad as skiing it. If I absolutely had to somehow navigate past a steep slope in questionable conditions, I'd certainly choose traversing below it over skiing down it (assuming that I somehow could choose one or the other as my risky maneuver).

If I'm wrong in that, I'm all ears.

[COBuckeye]

New to the forum and Berthoud. Would love to get out with someone tommorow. I have all my own gear and know how to use it. Shoot me a PM if anyone is interested.

PM sent. Hope to see you out there

[JoeStrummer]

I was out today for a couple hours in the 110s, etc. It was pretty touchy for sure. Lots of appetizing stuff to ski but I have seats three rows behind the Laker bench tonight and didn't want to waste them whilst sitting under 5 feet of snow.

[Danno]

I was out today for a couple hours in the 110s, etc. It was pretty touchy for sure. Lots of appetizing stuff to ski but I have seats three rows behind the Laker bench tonight and didn't want to waste them whilst sitting under 5 feet of snow.

I hope that you get to give Kobe a good "No means no!" jeer while there.

[CG]

Today was really good, very few people out. Floral was the place to be, Plunge was good to. 90's was really windy and slaby. There was sluffing in Floral but no cracks or whomphing (didn't hear one all day). Good to see JBSki again.

[smitchell333]

Really? Traversing under steep terrain in sketchy conditions certainly isn't good, but I would think one would be way more likely to trigger a slope to slide by skiing it than by traversing under it.

Well I'm not sure that you'd be more likely to trigger a slope by traversing underneath it, but were a slope to trigger I'd probably prefer not to be underneath all of the sliding snow. Even a small slide could bury you deep if you're at the bottom.

[Cruiser]

Thinking of doing dawn patrol tomorrow. Anyone else going to be headed up that way? Either way, I'll be on Lhasa's with a red jacket.

[smitchell333]

It was dumping this morning. Super fluffy.

Saw some cracky wind affected snow out of the shelter of the trees.

Danger is definitely elevated.

[Pinner]

Dangerous to very dangerous avalanche conditions have developed and will continue through the weekend.

Hopefully someone will read this and make smart choices.

[Alpentele]

DEEP today. Probably at least 10 inches since this morning. Definitely some cracking in spots though, be careful out there.

[fastfroggy]

very low visibility out there but tea cup did slide

[Cruiser]

So I gave 3 gaper knuckle-draggers a ride up to the top of the pass from the Empire side around 10:45 this morning. When we get to the parking lot they hop out of the truck and tell me thank you. So I say, "No problem guys. It's good for my karma. I trust that everyone is wearing beacons, right???" The first 2 kind of snicker at me and the third, the one wearing wet blue jeans, says "What's a beacon?"

But, I did manage to get 3 laps of over the head blower in Floral Meadows before 10am. So that day wasn't a total loss...

[drt]

it was super good today. Some of the craziest wind formations on top of 80s and 90s that I've ever seen... Amazing to see some of the no gear fools up high today as well....

[lewisrick]

up on berthoud last Wed. Jan. 19, 24" of Pow. Be careful we lost a snowboarder and dog on Mon. Jan. 17 on steeps just west of summit.