One board to rule them all - big-mtn snowboard previews

[bcrider]

Steepwaters are great boards but have HUGE sidecuts (11.25+)

The higher the number, the less amount of sidecut.

Saying a board with 11.25 has huge sidecut is ass-backwards. Wouldn’t it make more sense to say a board with 11.25 has very little sidecut (for going fast)?

Cool thread Tap.

Staying on the sidecut topic…

What’s the groups consensus on boards with very little sidecut? I’ve heard that the philosophy goes something like this. When the board is weighted on a turn it flexes and gives the edge the sidecut needed to make a good turn...but when you need (or want) to point it and are keeping the board flat, you don’t have too much sidecut to catch an edge on.

The least amount of sidecut I’ve ridden on was around 9 so I don’t have experience with this myself. Any thoughts from folks that have?

I will say that although the concept makes sense I do like and appreciate sidecut. Turning can be really fun.

[Tap]

The higher the number, the less amount of sidecut. Saying a board with 11.25 has huge sidecut is ass-backwards.

oh screw you, BCR! you're right, i was thinking HUGE turning radius number, which is less sidecut thx bro, glad to have you chime in

When the board is weighted on a turn it flexes and gives the edge the sidecut needed to make a good turn...but when you need (or want) to point it and are keeping the board flat, you don’t have too much sidecut to catch an edge on.

Totally agreed here, except i think that the risk of catching an edge isn't that great....it's just that there is less shape, thus less edge friction (armchair engineer).

Also, if you are riding steep, icy, high consequence terrain, less sidecut (10-11m) will keep more of the boards edge on the slope (especially the waist, as it is not that far away from the nose and tail), where a board with 8m sidecut will have the waist farther away from the nose and tail, forcing the board to bow in order to get all the edge on the slope. Choose your weapon wisely, eh? Grant and Kern Barta wrote an article on this in Couloir a few years back...well written piece.

I went from a 8.5m sidecut Burton to a 10.2m sidecut Salomon and really like the stability at speed, but miss the flexy/turny aspect of a more sidecut at times. I can make it work cause i'm 220 lbs dripping wet, so torqueing the board isn't an issue. But I sometimes find it difficult to slash a fast pow on hardpack turn because the big sidecut of the Salomon cannot arc around in time, and the edge washes out when the board is thrown around quickly. If I was on a board with a bit more sidecut bite, the slash would come around nicely.

thus, searching for the perfect board

[bcrider]

Totally agreed here, except i think that the risk of catching an edge isn't that great....it's just that there is less shape, thus less edge friction (armchair engineer).:

yeah, you're right. Its not so much catching an edge as it is the board "wanting" to turn due to a deep sidecut.

Also, if you are riding steep, icy, high consequence terrain, less sidecut (10-11m) will keep more of the boards edge on the slope (especially the waist, as it is not that far away from the nose and tail), where a board with 8m sidecut will have the waist farther away from the nose and tail, forcing the board to bow in order to get all the edge on the slope.

agreed

But I sometimes find it difficult to slash a fast pow on hardpack turn because the big sidecut...

you did it again!
you mean SHALLOW sidecut.

If 8.5 is too much side cut and 10.5 isnt enough...the perfect compromise might be boards with 9.5.

[FreshPow]

Arbor A Frame

I second this. Its really a fabulous board.

[biggins]

What shop was that?

I'm not gonna say. They still sell Volkl boards and he's super professional so I don't wanna make trouble for him.

Back to the Selecta though- I'd love to hear something different/positive about the deck 'cause I still think its a cool concept and a schlick lookin' rdie to boot. I'm just very impressionable with this buddy as he's pretty much always told me what to buy and has yet to steer me wrong.

[markb]

Speaking of sidecut, I can't help but wonder how a spatula-like snowboard would perform. Any precedent? Living at Squaw, spat's are almost all you see, and the reverse camber and sidecut are pretty intriguing, given the surfing-style performance you might expect. I'm not sure how much to trust my intuition from surfing on how this shape would perform for a snowboard.

In the ocean weight is almost all at the back of the board, and the carve uses different parts of the board than a snowboard, namely the side rear of the middle, and of course pivoting off the fins. I've had whitewater kayaks in the surf as well (just for aerial playboating, no lineup surfing, I swear), which have a similar reverse camber shape. Without fins, you can tell that the turn is initiated similar to a surfboard, although more centered weight means more effective carving edge.

So what does this mean for the snow? Pivoting off the reverse sidecut? What are the benefits? Would a more-rear pivot point help to stay on top of powder? Climb out of wet snow, as the spat was designed to handle? How would the less centered weighting of snowboards be compared to spats?

Just trying to get back in the mindset.

[homeless]

Speaking of sidecut, I can't help but wonder how a spatula-like snowboard would perform. Any precedent? Living at Squaw, spat's are almost all you see, and the reverse camber and sidecut are pretty intriguing, given the surfing-style performance you might expect. I'm not sure how much to trust my intuition from surfing on how this shape would perform for a snowboard.

In the ocean weight is almost all at the back of the board, and the carve uses different parts of the board than a snowboard, namely the side rear of the middle, and of course pivoting off the fins. I've had whitewater kayaks in the surf as well (just for aerial playboating, no lineup surfing, I swear), which have a similar reverse camber shape. Without fins, you can tell that the turn is initiated similar to a surfboard, although more centered weight means more effective carving edge.

So what does this mean for the snow? Pivoting off the reverse sidecut? What are the benefits? Would a more-rear pivot point help to stay on top of powder? Climb out of wet snow, as the spat was designed to handle? How would the less centered weighting of snowboards be compared to spats?

Just trying to get back in the mindset.

Burton Fish
Prior Khyber
Winterstick Tom Burt
These boads all depend on lots of taper, a far offset stance, and in the case of the first two; putting all of the sidecut in the rear of the board. The idea is to keep your weight and turn initiation at the tail.

Also, the Winterstick swallowtail has a massive, reverse side-cut in the front of the board and a moderate amount of reverse camber as well.... It's the undisputed king of powder for soft-boot riders.

With hard-boots, I'm going to be experimenting with a 24.5 cm waist, 10m of side-cut, and a swallow or dove tail.. I played with the Khyber last year and found that the huge nose and the sidecut in the back were fun but limiting with plates and hard boots.

Zach

[jibij]

Thanks for throwing this info up, Tap. I'm pretty new to the board and apparently have LOTS to learn. What I do know, is that the few days I've put on the Compatriot board I recently bought from Station have been eye-opening.

I haven't spent any significant amount of time on anything but Burton boards. They were all OK and I felt like I was always progressing on them. I honestly never noticed much difference going from board to board and always wrote that off to my relative inexperience. The last few days on the Compatriot have changed that for me. Granted, I've only been able to ride it on the ribbon at Loveland so far, but the increased control and stability have been mind-blowing for me. I've ridden crud, ice and decent snow (a few inches of fluff is decent for mid-October) on the ribbon and the board responds beautifully to all of them. It's completely buttery in the fluff. I have no idea what it's big mountain capabilities are, but so far I'm stoked to be on a board that seems to read my mind.

[Tap]

jibij, that's great. you should be taking it to a new level this year, then.

i'd love to try one of Station's boards and to get his take on why they only went as big as 166. i understand that bigger boards aren't as popular as the shorter ones...but maybe he thinks that a 166 is all you really need anywhere.

Station, where you at!?

[Beaver]

tap, I'm doing the same pondering/research for the same kind of board - but women-specific.

I like woman specific research. I may just go do some research right now and post what I find out in the padded room.

[Agent 00X]

I second Samwich's Prior swallowtail (st) suggestion or any st to those seeking something a little different. My preconcieved general idea was that this board would be more fun than a regular board in powder and much less fun elsewhere. Not so. This board was more fun everywhere. (didn't ride this board in the park or pipe) Groomers/firm and tracked were great too.
It has great flex and long edges for firm surfaces. For powder it has more float so acceleration is fast but the swallowtail lets you maneuver.

I rode Prior's 181 st and several other Prior boards at a demo day last season. All the boards were great but what really stood out was the 181 st. Although a 181 this board did not weigh a ton, about the weight of a regular 165 or so I guess. This board is super good on groomers. I let it rip and got my carve/trench on. There is plenty of torsional stiffness in this board. It is not a twisity soft powder only board. This is probably the result of Prior's design expertise with alpine race/carve boards. I did not get to ride high speed open powder but in the powder I did ride (mellow and steep trees) I found shorter turns/smears easy to do. Tracked stiff old powder was fun too as the longer lenght bridged over lumps.

[Station]

Station, where you at!?

Was just taking a nap- sorry... But now I am here

I was stoked to hear that jibij is ruling on his Compatriot deck. As far as why Compatriot doesn’t offer a board longer than a 166 is a pretty lengthy story, and ultimately, its maybe just a simple issue of preference (as these things always are) of those involved with the company, and those who are riding the boards, offering feedback. But, there is a little science to it (method to our madness), which I’ll try to explain…

First of all, we do offer a limited edition 172, which in 04/05 was called the Yippee Hippy, and in 05/06 is called The Congressman, but this isn’t really offered to the market at large. This is just made in ultra-limited quantities per special order-type-of-thing. We have found that the need for a board in the 170-200 range is so limited, it wouldn’t make sense to press a whole run of them for a limited market, but, like I said, many people do prefer longer boards. I think its rad- I’ve shredded a Doughboy and Grocer in my days. We have found that most of our team riders and locals at Jackson Hole who shred on Compatriot snowboards 8 days a week have started to adapt and acquire a taste for a slightly shorter length. EXAMPLE: Many of the riders who are on Compatriots were originally on longer sticks, like big Never Summers, Priors, Lib Techs, etc. But, because they wanted to get on a lighter board, they experimented with Compatriot, and went from a 169 to the Outra Vez 166, for example. Because of the recipe combo of Compatriots sidecut, taper, length and shovel of nose, stance positioning, etc. (all equally important pieces to the puzzle), a rider can now have the same benefits of a 170 on a much shorter length. Compatriot is very deliberate and premeditated in these decisions, and feels that you should ride on the material that you actually make use of. (Same reason why we don’t ski on 210’s any more- I ski on 174’s now, etc) Compatriots are slightly wider than Burtons, for example, and much lighter than many other brands out their. (This is due to the Cowboy Core), so some people who were on the Outra Vez 166 last season, are even switching to the more concise Guide FR 162 this season. This isn’t to say all boards are going to get shorter and shorter, but it’s just an issue of function, board manageability, and maybe, most importantly, the “fun-ness factor” I often look at Romain DiMarchi- homeboy is doing bigger things at faster speeds in deeper pow than I would ever attempt… on a 156!!! Travis Rice? He’s dropping big lines in NZ to AK on a 161, and rarely goes over the handle bars. I can’t even keep up with him at the Village when he’s on a 157.

Well, any way, I hope this wasn’t too lengthy. It’s just one little companies opinion. So, I guess what I am saying- a boards flavor comes from more than just its length. Sidecut, nose/tail width, weight, stance positioning, etc. are all crucial. But longboarders unite! Compatriot will always serve the core backcountry nation first. That Compatriot Congressmen 172 is a killer board. I love you guys.

[Tap]

glad you made it, Station

agreed, RDM and Travis are killing it on shorter boards....but they aren't your average 6'1" 215lb clyde, eh?




(we should talk about that Outer Vez 166, sometime?)

[Station]

glad you made it, Station

agreed, RDM and Travis are killing it on shorter boards....but they aren't your average 6'1" 215lb clyde, eh?

(we should talk about that Outer Vez 166, sometime?)

Most definitely. Also, There is a Compatriot Outra Vez 166 Wide on eBay.

And I hear what you are saying- the truth is- that most well-known companies are in the business of making snowboards for 14 year olds.

Thats why these smaller brands with passion for purity are so key right now. Its cool to see companies like glissade, compatriot, etc doing the right things for the right reasons.

I am so excited for this season, it's unbelievable.

[TheRussian]

Apologies for thawing a long dead thread - I was interested to find someone else's (especially Biggins') views on the Volkl Selecta - which I have ridden for approx three weeks

Further to the earlier threads - I'm not sure what squirrelly means (other than a rodent type creature we have in the UK). But with my weight (210lbs or so), the 168 has been fine and I have had some great pow days - also it copes on piste and doesnt feel too bad, although at the weekend I had a bad landing on ice and broke/shattered the swallow tail cover.... but my local dealer said it would be sent to Volkl for repair... so I would be more than happy with that

I have also been looking at the 160 Burton Fish, as for pure pow that seems pretty much everyones favourite.

Cheers

[Grizz]

Speaking of sidecut, I can't help but wonder how a spatula-like snowboard would perform. Any precedent?

The only reverse sidecut snowboard I can think of is the Lib Tech Banana Hammock. I think it would be a pretty specialized stick and not do so well on the packed, like the Spats.

The Lib Banana (reverse camber) is having a ton of good feedback this season and should come in longer lengths for next year.

I had the chance to ride a Prior earlier this season and was impressed. I'd like to try the Khyber and Spearhead before I make a decision but I'm probably going to buy a 172 MFR (10.5 radius).

[gonzo]

great thread revival!

i'm psyched to try a lib banana and a 162 malolo. i pretty much ski on non-powder days and bust out the fish when it's time to dust my skier friends on the deep days. if the malolo can give me 75% of the powder performance with 75% more tail snap I'll be in love. then i would be a 1 board guy, which would be nice...although I'll keep the fish just in case

[bcrider]

All those boards look funny.....................none of them have a split going down the center.

Cool if you own a heli or a sled.......not so cool otherwise.

[rideit]

Current Prior Quiver:
Khyber 161
Khyber 165
Swallowtail (custom stiff) 167
Swallowtail 176

Looking for a carbon split...damn loonie...

[rideit]

Cool if you own a heli or a sled.......not so cool otherwise.

Also cool if you live 8 miles from the top of Teton Pass....

[String]

Nitro, hands down. I've got the Shogun which is one of the lightest boards ever made, good big line sidecut and stiff so it stays stable at high speeds. After taking it down real gnar I wouldn't waste my time trying out different brands.

[Tourette Dude]

Option makes great boards. Have a Supercharger thats great in the powder and really stable at speed when you hit the groomers. It very stiff so it needs the speed on the runs for stability so its more for wide open terrain. I don't know what the current version is called.

My other board is a K2 Legend(l know I just uttered the K2 word) . Its a noodly twin powder board, and a blast to ride. Perfect in the powder, very manuverable for tight terrain and holds a great edge on the groomers. I tend to ride it the most because it handles everything well.

[Sinecure]

+1 for Prior options. My 4WD is amazing in all conditions. Yesterday I was a fore-runner in a SL race course in the morning, then went for a 5 minute hike to get 8" of fresh fluffy stuff on top of hard crust. OK, in a 179 its a bit long for a tight SL course, but I bet I set a better line than most of the highschoolers who were racing behind me. When I ordered it I had them put in an extra set of inserts behind the normal ones so that I can set up more toward the rear on deep pow days.

Split tails break. I bought my next victim over the summer (Nitro powder gun 196). We'll see how long it lasts. I had a Sims Burner but sold it before I broke it.

Prior's taper designs (Spearhead and Khyber) look pretty awesome if you think you'd like the Burton fish. Plus you can get split ones if you want to hang with bcrider.

As Zach pointed out in one of the early posts in this thread from a few years ago, Donek is an awesome company. I have two of their boards (171 Freecarve I and 210 SG). The freecarve was my go-to board for a long time (probably 130 days on it).

[arild]

Anyone else liking the Rome Design here?
I think it´s an amazing snowboard for what it is, and excels at some types of riding, meaning powder. What really amazes me about it, is that even with a wide stance, centered up, it still has no real need to nose dive, even with a minimalistic backwards lean, it´s a lot more happy with turning the nose upwards in the snow.
Other bonuses is that it´s entirely glass free, meaning there´s only carbonfibre and polypropylene(base) wrapped around it. This makes it very, very light.

It still has a very good amount of edge grip, but not dominatingly much so.

These, icy clusterfuck, days I use it all night long as a tool for fucking around and just having fun on the "groomers". I have the 162, which feels to me like an ideal length for this model. I´m 5´10", 190 lbs, and need to lose some weight.

[eric77]

Anyone else liking the Rome Design here?
I think it´s an amazing snowboard for what it is, and excels at some types of riding, meaning powder. What really amazes me about it, is that even with a wide stance, centered up, it still has no real need to nose dive, even with a minimalistic backwards lean, it´s a lot more happy with turning the nose upwards in the snow.
Other bonuses is that it´s entirely glass free, meaning there´s only carbonfibre and polypropylene(base) wrapped around it. This makes it very, very light.

It still has a very good amount of edge grip, but not dominatingly much so.

These, icy clusterfuck, days I use it all night long as a tool for fucking around and just having fun on the "groomers". I have the 162, which feels to me like an ideal length for this model. I´m 5´10", 190 lbs, and need to lose some weight.

I've been wanting to demo a design for the past couple years, but could never find a shop demoing one. I currently own an arbor crossbow and nidecker megalight. They are both awesome boards. The nidecker is very light and I was a little skeptical about it after my first run, but after a few more runs I fell in love with it. It is killer in powder, but is not the best for cutting through crud because of the light weight I'd imagine. The crossbow does a much better job in that stuff.