How to stop a gunman.....?

**dipstik** · 04-20-2007, 02:25 PM

This thread is really sad, from almost every angle.

**Crass3000** · 04-20-2007, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by Free Range Lobster

Because... One book obviously speaks against about 20+ different groups that were listed in the links I just posted.

You must be in politics.

No my point was that it was a good book. It will probably refute some of your points and back up some of your others. It's sincerely a good book about the bad side of Islam.

**Free Range Lobster** · 04-20-2007, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by Crass3000

No my point was that it was a good book. It will probably refute some of your points and back up some of your others. It's sincerely a good book about the bad side of Islam.

And Rashid Ahmed along with VS Naipaul both wrote MANY books about the Middle East and SE Asia showing BOTH the good side AND bad side of Islam.

Do you even have a point?

Oh right, you had facts shoved in your face now you have to divert in another direction. Carry on.

**Crass3000** · 04-20-2007, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by hemas

Mebbe Fox doesn't tell the whole truth...

The funny thing is that all you people who say bad things about the Rightwing media is that you have probably never listened to it. I can honestly say that I listen to both sides to get as much information as I can. Can you honestly say you do? I hope so cause every source picks and chooses facts to support their slant.

**hemas** · 04-20-2007, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by Crass3000

The funny thing is that all you people who say bad things about the Rightwing media is that you have probably never listened to it. I can honestly say that I listen to both sides to get as much information as I can. Can you honestly say you do? I hope so cause every source picks and chooses facts to support their slant.

Listen, watch... nope. But read, yes still they're news seems often rather funny when I compare them to the headlines from BCC, CNN, Reuters and a few others at the same time.

**Crass3000** · 04-20-2007, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by Free Range Lobster

And Rashid Ahmed along with VS Naipaul both wrote MANY books about the Middle East and SE Asia showing BOTH the good side AND bad side of Islam.

Do you even have a point?

Oh right, you had facts shoved in your face now you have to divert in another direction. Carry on.

No my point was that the organizations you put forward are only a tiny fraction of the Muslim population in the US -- and that their outcry is often too little, too late. They typically don't say much in general.

The only Muslims I saw around 9/11 were in my engineering classes and they seemed to think it was a pretty cool thing that happened.

**Jack Burton** · 04-20-2007, 02:35 PM

"challenge him to a ski off?"

or travel with Wang Chee and Egg Shen, they can handle Lo Pan.

**Free Range Lobster** · 04-20-2007, 02:36 PM

Originally Posted by Crass3000

The only Muslims I saw around 9/11 were in my engineering classes and they seemed to think it was a pretty cool thing that happened.

This I'll easily call bullshit on.

Originally Posted by Jack Burton

"challenge him to a ski off?"

or travel with Wang Chee and Egg Shen, they can handle Lo Pan.

Because you know what Jack Burton always says...

**Crass3000** · 04-20-2007, 02:36 PM

Originally Posted by hemas

Listen, watch... nope. But read, yes still they're news seems often rather funny when I compare them to the headlines from BCC, CNN, Reuters and a few others at the same time.

But you really have to drink the Rush, Sean Hannity Kool-aid to really get an idea of some of the information out there. I'm not saying they are the only people who bring important facts to light -- but they bring ALOT of facts to light that you will never see anywhere else in the media.

**Tippster** · 04-20-2007, 02:36 PM

As far as CCW goes, Virginia is one of the easiest states to obtain a permit:

No police discretion, no training required, reciprocity

http://www.bradycampaign.org/legisla...tate.php?st=va

If I was the shooter I would have shot a couple people first, then waited for any idiot to look like they're fumbling for a weapon and shoot them, take their weapon, and shoot even more people.

Do you honeslty think that a 20yo kid crapping his pants is going to have the presence of mind to be able to draw, aim, and fire effectively before getting shot? Cho was mentally ready to kill... what was described to us by an FBI agent and combat veteran as "in the moment." He wasn't considering his actions, he was on auto-pilot. There could have been 10 guys with guns in those rooms - according to folks who know how this shit goes down they would have been killed and their weapons replenished his cache.

What amazes me is the suggestion that a couple of armed kids would have been preferable to more armed (and trained) Campus cops patrolling buildings.

**bklyn** · 04-20-2007, 02:37 PM

If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

Can something exist without being perceived?

The most immediate philosophical topic that the riddle introduces, involves the existence of the tree (and its sound) outside of human perception. If no one is around to see, hear, touch or smell the tree, how could its existence occur? What is it to say that it exists when such an existence avoids all knowing? George Berkeley in the 18th century developed subjective idealism, a metaphysical theory to respond to these questions, coined famously as "to be is to be perceived".

**Crass3000** · 04-20-2007, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by Free Range Lobster

This I'll easily call bullshit on.

Because you know what Jack Burton always says...

Sorry I was there -- you weren't. This was a graduate level class at the University of Minnesota. Do I really have a reason to lie. Do you really think that you're approval or believing me is important? (Sorry got to head home -- already after quitting time)

**Free Range Lobster** · 04-20-2007, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by Crass3000

Do I really have a reason to lie. Do you really think that you're approval or believing me is important? (Sorry got to head home -- already after quitting time)

Yes, you do have reason, to cause shit and get off on getting a rise out of people.

**zion zig zag** · 04-20-2007, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by Tippster

There could have been 10 guys with guns in those rooms - according to folks who know how this shit goes down they would have been killed and their weapons replenished his cache.

Congratulations, you've drawn me out.

Political beliefs aside, do you really believe that? One of the dumber things you've ever said if so.

**hemas** · 04-20-2007, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by Tippster

What amazes me is the suggestion that a couple of armed kids would have been preferable to more armed (and trained) Campus cops patrolling buildings.

Bingo, trained armed personel patrolling and stationed in the campus... but now, I presume that someone would start bitching about Big Brother and the government taking away your freedoms (most of which you have already given).

As to listen to Rush et. al..... well I have to listen enough shite during the day, that I see no point in listening to another douchebag spew hatred and vile things on stuff he know nothing about.

**Free Range Lobster** · 04-20-2007, 02:43 PM

Break out the metal detectors and paramilitary!
PS VA Tech anyone?

And just to finish off the crasshole discussion.
Rory Stewart, an outsider, walked completely across the Middle East and Southeast Asia. He strangely enough, is still alive. And he did it post 9/11.

Originally Posted by flykdog

Congratulations, you've drawn me out.

Political beliefs aside, do you really believe that? One of the dumber things you've ever said if so.

Considering the people that Tipps knows know more than you do? I'd hedge my bets on his statement against yours.

spook · 04-20-2007, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by Crass3000

The only Muslims I saw around 9/11 were in my engineering classes and they seemed to think it was a pretty cool thing that happened.

i'm sure there is a wonderfully entertaining explanation of this conclusion.

you, sir, are a disgrace to spook haters everywhere.

**natty dread** · 04-20-2007, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by Crass3000

But you really have to drink the Rush, Sean Hannity Kool-aid to really get an idea of some of the information out there. I'm not saying they are the only people who bring important facts to light -- but they bring ALOT of facts to light that you will never see anywhere else in the media.

I am speechless.^^

OK I'm done--thanks for the link tracy.

**P_McPoser** · 04-20-2007, 02:45 PM

Hey spook , see how no one ever quotes or reponds to you? Take the hint moron.

"
This message is hidden because spook is on your ignore list.
"

**Bong Hits For the Baby Steezus** · 04-20-2007, 02:47 PM

Peace, love, and 420

**hemas** · 04-20-2007, 02:47 PM

Originally Posted by flykdog

Congratulations, you've drawn me out.

Political beliefs aside, do you really believe that? One of the dumber things you've ever said if so.

Psst. have you ever watched a gun from the wrong end?

I haven't in a real life situation... but did so, in a training mission during my military service... Both were armed with a assault-rifle, very much similar to AK-74 (AK-47's updated version), with blanks and a laser system both on the gun and on your vest & helmet. And guess what, we both wasted about 10 rounds and neither of us hit each other (less than 30 feet apart in really enclosed ravine). Sure, I ain't the best army-guy, but I'd take a guess that most would do even worse (at least those that none of such training). So yeah, Tipp has a huge point.

spook · 04-20-2007, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by P_McPoser

Hey spook , see how no one ever quotes or reponds to you? Take the hint moron.

"
This message is hidden because spook is on your ignore list.
"

are you kidding? and miss the entertainment of having people who have me on ignore respond to posts they can't read?

it doesn't get much better than this.

**zion zig zag** · 04-20-2007, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by hemas

Psst. have you ever watched a gun from the wrong end?

I haven't in a real life situation... but did so, in a training mission during my military service... Both were armed with a assault-rifle, very much similar to AK-74 (AK-47's updated version), with blanks and a laser system both on the gun and on your vest & helmet. And guess what, we both wasted about 10 rounds and neither of us hit each other (less than 30 feet apart in really enclosed ravine). Sure, I ain't the best army-guy, but I'd take a guess that most would do even worse (at least those that none of such training). So yeah, Tipp has a huge point.

You're a horrible shot. 10 guys, he can't shoot all of them at once, somebody has plenty of time to aim.

**Tippster** · 04-20-2007, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by flykdog

Congratulations, you've drawn me out.

Political beliefs aside, do you really believe that? One of the dumber things you've ever said if so.

Sorry to lower the bar, flyk but yes - that is what I believe and I am not alone. See the rest of my post. I also did not mean to insinuate that all 10 were possibly in the same room....

**Nuthon** · 04-20-2007, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by Damian Sanders

(This is a serious thread about a serious subject, so please show it the respect it deserves)

If put in a situation like that, I probably wouldn't have been able to do anything either, or have known what to do.....a very tough situation. In my daily life, I'm not in particular danger from crime (muggings, etc), nor a likely target, and I don't go around fighting people or shooting guns. Haven't been in a fight since high school, or shot a gun in over 10 years (only once). So, basicly I have no clue.

Thanks.

I personally tend to think that most random shootings are done by individuals who have very little or no real experience with firearms. With this thought in mind I'm sure that AIM comes into play. Reading a lot of the witness stories it sounded like most of the casualties were people lying on the ground. Not moving. I think the safer thing to do would be to run in a straffeing or zig zag motion towards or away from the shooter (depending on size of cahones). A moving target is almost impossible to get a clean kill. Unless one was experienced in shooting moving targets at close range. (police, military, security training)