How to stop a gunman.....?

[PNWbrit]

The solution is clear. Arm the teachers with AK47s!

Or just recruit college campus guards from ski forums?

Anyone want to bet the level of expertise professed here is about the same as you'd have got from asking the same question at Virginia Tech last week?

Guarantee Cho Seung-Hui would probably have been one of the most Xtreme-experts. Fucker would have been rambling on about muzzle velocities, kill rates, hollow points, dead angles, combat experience.......

[Bandogge]

Motive does, to some degree, dictate what one should do...

Roberries are often best dealt with with compliance, as well as exit strategy... ie, Guy with steel asks for your wallet. You throw it ten feet to your left and use the distance he gives you to paddle out.

However, there are instances (Have been involved in a more than one) where compliance will only result in a quicker death.

It's important to read the situation correctly and act is accordance with what you are dealt.

I've closed a robbery in it's tracks by asking the guy who squared to me if he had any rolling papers... Whatever works... Works!

[Buster Highmen]

I've closed a robbery in it's tracks by asking the guy who squared to me if he had any rolling papers... Whatever works... Works!

And there you go. I got the guy wasted.

[Crass3000]

I think the best way to get away from all this violence is if we are all designated our own bullet-proof Pope-mobile. With all the handicap ramps we would be able to get anywhere we would just have to change the seating structure in classes.

The only other solution is to let people arm themselves. I agree arming people at school sounds pretty rediculous but what else are you going to do? The police aren't going to get to you in time to help you -- for the most part police are there to pick up the pieces after something happens and investigate. Not that they wouldn't want to stop something like this dead in its tracks but it's just not feasable for them to be everywhere at the same time. And let's be clear... normal security guards are often times chumps, they are scared shitless in alot of situations. I've been chased by 50 (conservative estimate -- absolutely no exageration) or so people and got a boot party from about 10 of them. The security guard didn't even attempt to help by firing a shot in the air etc. He was just frozen with fear.

[Tippster]

Umm... hey retard - an easily armed student was the PROBLEM in this situation, not the solution.

Maybe had the motherfucker NOT been able to get a gun as easily as signing his name this wouldn't have happened. Spare me the "criminals get guns anyway" bullshit - this dude had no connections, and neither do thousands of other killers who use guns - they buy them "LEGALLY."

Everyone had guns at the OK Corral too - guess what: the good guys got killed... and they knew how to fire a weapon.

[Crass3000]

Umm... hey retard - an easily armed student was the PROBLEM in this situation, not the solution.

Maybe had the motherfucker NOT been able to get a gun as easily as signing his name this wouldn't have happened. Spare me the "criminals get guns anyway" bullshit - this dude had no connections, and neither do thousands of other killers who use guns - they buy them "LEGALLY."

Everyone had guns at the OK Corral too - guess what: the good guys got killed... and they knew how to fire a weapon.

Get a clue tipster -- sorry you grew up in the church chior as a momma's boy but it isn't hard to get a gun illegally. And thanks for the retard comment it really hits home coming from a person who works for the exploit everything media. Maybe you should think about getting a job in a feild where you actually offer society something other than slanted lies or distortion at best.

And as for an armed killer being the problem that might be true but if other people were armed he would have been able to kill significantly less people which I don't see as a problem. Think of the campus killing on the law campus where they took care of the gunman quite a bit faster -- he was only able to kill 6 people.

[dirtybryan]

Umm... hey retard - an easily armed student was the PROBLEM in this situation, not the solution.

Maybe had the motherfucker NOT been able to get a gun as easily as signing his name this wouldn't have happened. Spare me the "criminals get guns anyway" bullshit - this dude had no connections, and neither do thousands of other killers who use guns - they buy them "LEGALLY."

Everyone had guns at the OK Corral too - guess what: the good guys got killed... and they knew how to fire a weapon.

Easy, if I recall there was a shooting at the Appalachian Law School in Virginia in 2002 where two armed students ran to their cars to get their firearms and cornered the suspect while the other students tackled the gunman to the ground.

I'm typically anti-gun, but this is a hard argument to ignore. While I don't think every student on campus should be required to be armed. I think a CCW permit should be legal on campuses or at least for their to be an initiative for professors to obtain CCWs.

[hemas]

Crash3000 and Brian, why do you think it is so easy to get an illegal gun? I can say for a fact, that minority of reg. illegal handguns (ie. non automatic) are not illegally imported/smuggled to USA. Most are stolen from your average Joe's apartment... and guess what, when it is easy to acquire a gun, it also makes it easier for criminals, as the "gun-pool" is so large. Even a simple law, like mandating triggerlocks or locked gun-cabinets for all those that own guns, would cut down severely the available "gun-pool" and coupled with a bit more effective control when selling guns (ie. a bit more red tape and hassle, that would most likely deter you're average Joe for getting a gun, jsut 'cause he can) would yet again lessen the "pool".

Of course, none of you guys want that, as it's dropping a big pile of shit on your rights... But still you're happy to let FBI/CIA and the government to wiretap your phones and monitor your emails and god knows what sans a permit.

[Roo]

A guy walks into a school and shoots 32 people dead and the solution is to give more people guns.

You have no idea how strange that sentiment appears to the average European.

[PNWbrit]

Hemas - you forget to mention fair trials, habeas corpus and torture are also rights that have gone down the shitter.

Strange that the average NRAista doesn't shout that loud about these or use his second amendment rights to defend them?

[mday]

I agree, allowing students to carry concealed weapons will prevent a complete lunatic from shooting 30+ people at a time. We seem to have these type of horrific tragedies every 5-10 years in this country.

In it's place, we'll substitute thousands of students killed, one at a time, because a jilted lover, or angry drunk, or kid with suicidal impulse had a gun at hand. I struggle to understand how anyone that supports this idea can really believe that it will reduce the death toll. Sure, every blue moon, a bad guy will get what's coming to him. The rest of the time, another young person with their whole life ahead of htem will have it ended suddenly. It's not only Europeans that are baffled by this kind of "logic".

[lemon boy]

A guy walks into a school and shoots 32 people dead and the solution is to give more people guns.

You have no idea how strange that sentiment appears to the average European.

I'm sure. Of course, for us the idea that guns be quite rare and hunting be an almost exclusively patrician "sport" is equally alien.

Hemas- exactly how would a trigger lock serve to prevent a gun from entering the black market?

For a wide variety of reasons gun control ideas that are predicated on reducing or eliminating some kind of gun are non-starters here.

[Crass3000]

Crash3000 and Brian, why do you think it is so easy to get an illegal gun?

Cause I actually live in the US and know it to be a fact. For instance, I know that I could call people I know and have an illegal firearm in my hands within a coupld hours.

Of course, none of you guys want that, as it's dropping a big pile of shit on your rights... But still you're happy to let FBI/CIA and the government to wiretap your phones and monitor your emails and god knows what sans a permit.

I actually don't personally own a gun or want one but am happy the neighbor has the right to blow an intruders head off if he feels so inclined -- that way next week their not heading to my house. And I could really care less if the governments taps my phone or monitors my email. I don't have anything to hide -- any rational person with nothing to hide would admit they don't have anything to hide. This "intrusion" only hurts criminals and has prevented at least on terrorist attack (conservatively) so I'm all for it.

I mean seriously... my emails and telephone conversations are pretty boring. I would feel sorry for anybody that got assigned the job to monitor me after some sort of flagging.

[Mcwop]

try youtube - I am sure there is a video on How to grab a gun away.

[dirtybryan]

Crash3000 and Brian, why do you think it is so easy to get an illegal gun? I can say for a fact, that minority of reg. illegal handguns (ie. non automatic) are not illegally imported/smuggled to USA. Most are stolen from your average Joe's apartment... and guess what, when it is easy to acquire a gun, it also makes it easier for criminals, as the "gun-pool" is so large. Even a simple law, like mandating triggerlocks or locked gun-cabinets for all those that own guns, would cut down severely the available "gun-pool" and coupled with a bit more effective control when selling guns (ie. a bit more red tape and hassle, that would most likely deter you're average Joe for getting a gun, jsut 'cause he can) would yet again lessen the "pool".

Of course, none of you guys want that, as it's dropping a big pile of shit on your rights... But still you're happy to let FBI/CIA and the government to wiretap your phones and monitor your emails and god knows what sans a permit.

...the self professed "village idiot" speaks and jumps to unfounded conclusions based on social stereotypes.

I don't own a firearm, and do believe that guns should be required to have trigger locks.

Anyways, lets say we go to the absolute extreme of revoking the 2nd Amendment entirely. The gun pool you have spoken of does shrink, shrinks to the collection of illegal firearms. Can you explain Switzerland's gun situation?

[lemon boy]

In it's place, we'll substitute thousands of students killed, one at a time, because a jilted lover, or angry drunk, or kid with suicidal impulse had a gun at hand. I struggle to understand how anyone that supports this idea can really believe that it will reduce the death toll. Sure, every blue moon, a bad guy will get what's coming to him. The rest of the time, another young person with their whole life ahead of htem will have it ended suddenly. It's not only Europeans that are baffled by this kind of "logic".

the flaw in your "logic" here is that CCW holders comit crimes at rates that are not even really comprable to your average citizen.

[Mcwop]

Here you go:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...rab+a+gun+away

And here is what to do in a zombie attack (pretty funny):
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...rab+a+gun+away

[Crass3000]

A guy walks into a school and shoots 32 people dead and the solution is to give more people guns.

You have no idea how strange that sentiment appears to the average European.

But we're not european... American's think alot of things the european people do are a little strange and (possibly wrongly) don't think they work as good. But... your placing your ideals and what you have been taught on us which we all know doesn't work. Every society has it's quirks and something that works well in one society will not necessarily work well for another.

I mean think of Iraq... I naively thought the Iraqi people would be happy that they were not under Sadam's rule and work together. While I believe they are happier now they certainly have not intentions of working together which in the end will turn out much worse for them than if they were just stuck with Sadam.

[Crass3000]

Hemas - you forget to mention fair trials, habeas corpus and torture are also rights that have gone down the shitter.

Strange that the average NRAista doesn't shout that loud about these or use his second amendment rights to defend them?

Personally I'm not worried about fair trials, habeus corpus, and torture for people, at least at the higher levels, involved in terrorism. I would have no problem being employed as the executioner down at Guantanamo. I could be judge, jury, and executioner and sleep well every night. I'm not concerned with the rights of people who, in general, want to wipe me off the face of this earth so that they can spread their form of Islam.

[Van_skier]

So... My wife and I have talked about this a fair bit in the past due to the Montreal shooting 10 years back. Guy went into Engineering school , sent all the guys out and shoot the girls, 10 or so I think. Now he only had a 22 semi. So yes I would hope to think that I would rush him rather than walk out. But in the heat of moment would you a. determine the size of bullet and b. come to a conclusion that he was going to shoot someone

I remember at the time of the Ecole Polytechnique shooting (14 dead) my mom (who worked there, but was out of the building at the time) was puzzled as to how nobody tried to stop the guy. Strangely enough, I don't recall my dad saying anything similar (he's a prof there, and I think he might have been in the building at the time).

When I read through the detailed story of what happened on wiki a few days ago (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89c...ique_massacre: note: this is a detailed account so it's chilling to say the least) it does seem like someone could have maybe stopped him (he went through 3 different floors and his gun failed to fire at one point, so he needed to reload). However, I do realize that thinking someone could have stopped him is clouded by the fact that I'm looking at the story as an outsider, after it happened, so I have all the details at my disposal.
The reality is, when crazy events like this happen, I can assume the people that are caught in the crossfire have no details about what is going on other than the fact there's a guy unloading a gun. They don't know his full intentions, how many rounds he has left, where he's headed next etc... I can also imagine that actions and responses are clouded by fear and the natural human response is to flee...
Regular civilians have no training to deal with events like these or to "stop a gunman"
That's where police training comes in to enable cops to deal with gunmen. Aside from the fact they are armed and where protection, cops are trained to deal with the stress and evaluate the details of the situation properly. They are also highly trained in the use of their weapons.

It's very disturbing to me that many people seem to think that arming civilians is the answer to prevent this kind of event. It goes to show the cultural gap in terms of guns is huge between Canada and the US, because I don't recall many people thinking that if others were armed, the massacre at Poly could have been prevented. I walked passed the memorial of the 14 women everyday for over 2 years, but I never once thought that if others were armed, they would still be alive...

[spook]

And I could really care less if the governments taps my phone or monitors my email. I don't have anything to hide -- any rational person with nothing to hide would admit they don't have anything to hide. This "intrusion" only hurts criminals and has prevented at least on terrorist attack (conservatively) so I'm all for it.

I mean seriously... my emails and telephone conversations are pretty boring. I would feel sorry for anybody that got assigned the job to monitor me after some sort of flagging.

stunning, if not predictable.

[PNWbrit]

Crass - What level of proof or evidence would you require to execute someone?

[dirtybryan]

Personally I'm not worried about fair trials, habeus corpus, and torture for people, at least at the higher levels, involved in terrorism. I would have no problem being employed as the executioner down at Guantanamo. I could be judge, jury, and executioner and sleep well every night. I'm not concerned with the rights of people who, in general, want to wipe me off the face of this earth so that they can spread their form of Islam.

That is absurd. EVERYONE deserves fair trials. Your suggestion basically makes any accused terrorist a convicted terrorist.

[spook]

Personally I'm not worried about fair trials, habeus corpus, and torture for people, at least at the higher levels, involved in terrorism. I would have no problem being employed as the executioner down at Guantanamo. I could be judge, jury, and executioner and sleep well every night. I'm not concerned with the rights of people who, in general, want to wipe me off the face of this earth so that they can spread their form of Islam.

please stop. you're killing me with the good little dumbass american racist schtick.

[spook]

Crass - What level of proof or evidence would you require to execute someone?

darker skin than his.