How to stop a gunman.....?

[hemas]

so what if a few innocents are taken?

I'm sure you're fine with it, until the innocent is you or someone you care about.

[Trackhead]

Ahh, deleted your post I see.

Who me? Yes, because these threads are like trying to dig a hole in sand. Futile, and a waste of time.

Carry on.

For the record...........
I'm for no gun control.
I think partial birth abortion is wrong.
I hate George Bush, but can't stand the Democratic party.
I think socialized health care will never work.
Big oil is not as evil as Americans greed and selfishness. I am greedy and selfish.

There, that should cover any future political statements from me, atleast here anyway.

[Crass3000]

For the sake of argument suppose I don't like you very much and just for shits and giggles I call the FBI and tell them that your wife is a terrorist. They say her name is similar to one on a list and are on their way to go get her. She'll spend several years in a secret prison often being held under water until she answers their questions in an acceptable manner.

While there won't be very much or perhaps even any evidence against her at the sham of trial she'll receive. Under your conditions it'll be enough for you to execte her when the time comes. Right?

I guess that would be a little vague for me. I am talking about the people we have caught in weapons factories, have caught with huge weapons stashes, government sources (likely verified by multiple governments) have plenty of data to support terrorism charges, the big fish in general. Those are the people I am talking about.

Don't get me wrong, I know your scenario probably happens but I think it is the exception and not the rule.

[Crass3000]

Please use proper punctuation otherwise we may have occasion to question your upbringing

Please don't quote spook. It takes the advantages of the ignore function away.

Spook: You don't know me or have any idea how I raise my child. If you want to get personal I'm fine with that but leave my child out of it or you will find me knocking at your door when you least expect it.

[lemon boy]

And to who ever asked about Suisse guns. Well every male citizen will have an assault rifle (after he has done his mandatory army-service), and also a sealed container w/ 3 (I might be wrong, as I can't remember what my former Suisse boss said a few years ago) clips.

Oh, and they have to bring the gun & container to mandatory rehearsals (every few years for a few days to a week or so), and naturally the seals are checked and after that the clips are used. And yep, if the seal is broken you're in deep doo doo, like over yer head.

The "point" of the swiss argument, as far as it goes is that every swiss has a fully auto gun + ammo but there isn't a big problem with them, ergo arguing that "guns" are the problem doesn't stand up in the light of them not being a problem there. Once you've decided to kill somebody the doo doo for messing with some seals is pretty well small puppy kaka related to a murder 1 rap.

Trigger locks take seconds to defeat and wouldn't be a deterent to theft nor do they render the firearm permanently disabled.

[Crass3000]

I'm sure you're fine with it, until the innocent is you or someone you care about.

Yah war is hell and nothing anybody wants to experience. What you say is obviously true but it would be out of my control.

[hemas]

Trigger locks take seconds to defeat and wouldn't be a deterent to theft nor do they render the firearm permanently disabled.

As for the Suisse issue, mebbe you 'mericans are just twisted and all.

And as for trigger locks, you might well be right. I don't own guns nor do I often fiddle with 'em (well, not since my last mandatory military rehearsal), and never with triggerlock.

But locked gun-cabinets do work, atleast they do that here... A lot of summerhouses had hunting rifles and such unlocked, there were quite a few that were stolen. But ever since the law has demanded that you either have a certified gun-cabinet or triggerlock, that particular way for criminals to acquire guns has almost stopped.

[truckeelocal]

Please don't quote spook. It takes the advantages of the ignore function away.

Spook: You don't know me or have any idea how I raise my child. If you want to get personal I'm fine with that but leave my child out of it or you will find me knocking at your door when you least expect it.

Ahh ! But I see that my quoting Spook has allowed you to question my first amendment rights and to continue to take the thread in an even more threatening direction. At least you said "please".

[spook]

Please don't quote spook. It takes the advantages of the ignore function away.

Spook: You don't know me or have any idea how I raise my child. If you want to get personal I'm fine with that but leave my child out of it or you will find me knocking at your door when you least expect it.

i'm learning more about you every post, crass.

even someone as idiotic as me would be even more idiotic not to believe you inflict your mentality on the helpless mind of your child. that's how it usually works. you know, the apple never falls far from the tree and all...

you're awfully sensitive for someone who seems to enjoy the free-for-all nature of the internet (excluding your use of the ignore function, of course) and apparently wants to highlight his parent status.

of course you will show up at my door when i least expect it, crass. i would expect nothing less rational.

[bklyn]

........

[PNWbrit]

Don't get me wrong, I know your scenario probably happens but I think it is the exception and not the rule.

Psst. They're holding your wife's head under water again and the FBI are deeply sorry that your child was killed when they raided your house to arrest her...Don't worry it's just an exception

Curious what level of barbarity your twisted mind would be prepared to accept if you were told it was for your protection. Would you object to let's say sending train loads of muslims to concentration camps?

[natty dread]

When you scold me I know I am frustrating you.

Far from it, more like amusing me as you show us all what a fool you are. To frustrate me you'd have to be a bit less of a babbling idiot. But it is a bit depressing, I must admit, when I think about how many americans think like you...

Good call tracy, I'm almost there.

[Crass3000]

Psst. They're holding your wife's head under water again and the FBI are deeply sorry that your child was killed when they raided your house to arrest her...Don't worry it's just an exception

Curious what level of barbarity your twisted mind would be prepared to accept if you were told it was for your protection. Would you object to let's say sending train loads of muslims to concentration camps?

Thanks for the twisted mind comment. It reassures me I'm still partially sane -- with all the medication sometimes I wonder

No nothing crazy like that. I realize most muslims are good people. But you have to admit there sure isn't much outcry in the Muslim world or even from American muslims when something horrible is done in their name. Take for instance 9/11. Most muslims didn't even have the guts to publically say that it was an abomination -- not that they didn't feel that way but I hope? they just didn't have the guts.

[spook]

well at least johnson space center is safe from gunmen...

[hemas]

But you have to admit there sure isn't much outcry in the Muslim world or even from American muslims when something horrible is done in their name. Take for instance 9/11. Most muslims didn't even have the guts to publically say that it was an abomination -- not that they didn't feel that way but I hope? they just didn't have the guts.

Can I please have some of those pills you've been eating, my post-op supply of Voltaren seems to be running a bit low...

Because you surely must be on some really strong meds, if you missed about the whole world condemn 9/11... and yes, it was in the news and papers. And yep, even muslims were condemning it (heck, even Gadaffi in Syria condemned it, and a few years ago, he was on your countries watch-list).

[Free Range Lobster]

Most muslims didn't even have the guts to publically say that it was an abomination -- not that they didn't feel that way but I hope? they just didn't have the guts.

Thats funny, quite a few large muslim groups and spokesmen spoke out against 9/11.

Do you fucking pay any attention at fucking all?

[Crass3000]

Far from it, more like amusing me as you show us all what a fool you are. To frustrate me you'd have to be a bit less of a babbling idiot. But it is a bit depressing, I must admit, when I think about how many americans think like you...

Good call tracy, I'm almost there.

Oh Natty... don't play games. I know I frustrate you and I have to admit it's pretty fun -- in you're small little world I'm sure you think you got it all figured out. If you weren't moved to frustration you wouldn't move to insults as your first offense.

Natty -- your officially on mine now so you might as well pull the trigger. Nobody goes on my ignore list unless they don't bother trying to put together something intelligent to say and just uses insults. The exception is the person who says the same thiing over and over like Spook -- he's like talking to a ten year old that has a little education but doesn't realize he's just booksmart and the real world has escaped him.

Congratulations on being one of the three biggest douchenozzles on the internet. You, spook, and Rascal King now have even more in common then you did before.

[Crass3000]

Thats funny, quite a few large muslim groups and spokesmen spoke out against 9/11.

Do you fucking pay any attention at fucking all?

By and large that is not true. They were few and far between. If you think different you must not spend much time reading the paper, net, or watching news sources. I guess I must pay more attention than you.

[Free Range Lobster]

I guess I must pay more attention than you.

You're stupid. Stop breathing.

Or just stop posting.

Either way, you're completely wrong.

[hemas]

By and large that is not true. They were few and far between. If you think different you must not spend much time reading the paper, net, or watching news sources. I guess I must pay more attention than you.

Mebbe Fox doesn't tell the whole truth...

[DougW]

I remember at the time of the Ecole Polytechnique shooting (14 dead) my mom (who worked there, but was out of the building at the time) was puzzled as to how nobody tried to stop the guy. Strangely enough, I don't recall my dad saying anything similar (he's a prof there, and I think he might have been in the building at the time).

When I read through the detailed story of what happened on wiki a few days ago (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89c...ique_massacre: note: this is a detailed account so it's chilling to say the least) it does seem like someone could have maybe stopped him (he went through 3 different floors and his gun failed to fire at one point, so he needed to reload). However, I do realize that thinking someone could have stopped him is clouded by the fact that I'm looking at the story as an outsider, after it happened, so I have all the details at my disposal.
The reality is, when crazy events like this happen, I can assume the people that are caught in the crossfire have no details about what is going on other than the fact there's a guy unloading a gun. They don't know his full intentions, how many rounds he has left, where he's headed next etc... I can also imagine that actions and responses are clouded by fear and the natural human response is to flee...
Regular civilians have no training to deal with events like these or to "stop a gunman"
That's where police training comes in to enable cops to deal with gunmen. Aside from the fact they are armed and where protection, cops are trained to deal with the stress and evaluate the details of the situation properly. They are also highly trained in the use of their weapons.

It's very disturbing to me that many people seem to think that arming civilians is the answer to prevent this kind of event. It goes to show the cultural gap in terms of guns is huge between Canada and the US, because I don't recall many people thinking that if others were armed, the massacre at Poly could have been prevented. I walked passed the memorial of the 14 women everyday for over 2 years, but I never once thought that if others were armed, they would still be alive...

Very interesting point. Actually the Montreal shooting started a movement that required the registration of all long guns. Per capita Canada has more long guns that the states. Has always been hard to get a hand gun in Canada. Gun registration divided the country ( well not huge issue) between east west and rural /urban. Really in Canada the only real opponents to gun control are rural westerners.

[PNWbrit]

Do you fucking pay any attention at fucking all?

Based solely on his assessment of one of the very nicest guys around here

Oh Natty... Congratulations on being one of the three biggest douchenozzles on the internet.

I'd say no.

[Crass3000]

Can I please have some of those pills you've been eating, my post-op supply of Voltaren seems to be running a bit low...

Because you surely must be on some really strong meds, if you missed about the whole world condemn 9/11... and yes, it was in the news and papers. And yep, even muslims were condemning it (heck, even Gadaffi in Syria condemned it, and a few years ago, he was on your countries watch-list).

Thats funny, quite a few large muslim groups and spokesmen spoke out against 9/11.

Do you fucking pay any attention at fucking all?

Might I suggest you read this book:

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/boo...43289689&itm=3

Certainly the book as a whole touches on alot of subjects but it also touches on the fact that Muslims either didn't care or were more likely too scared to say much even after 9/11.

Seriously check it out. I heard the author talk on Minnesota Pulic Radio (how bad could it be). I can't imagine you not liking the book. It touches on women's rights and lots of other things.

[Free Range Lobster]

Certainly the book as a whole touches on alotof subjects but it also touches on the fact that Muslims either didn't care or were more likely too scared to say much even after 9/11.

Because... One book obviously speaks against about 20+ different groups that were listed in the links I just posted.

You must be in politics.

[Crass3000]

Based solely on his assessment of one of the very nicest guys around here

I'd say no.

Well we haven't agreed on much up until now so I guess that isn't much of a shock.