Interresting post on Silverton (x-post)

[KillingCokes]

People, look at what SM is doing in the large. Yes, it has some problems, yes things aren't perfect, but it's an expert only area that's dedicated to you. If you think you really can do better, go prove it.

That's the great thing about this forum. If it was private we wouldn't be able to contribute to Silverton. We can air our feeling over things that are really important and they actually get attention. In the long run problems that get aired here hopefully will become problems no more.

[Buster Highmen]

That's the great thing about this forum. If it was private we wouldn't be able to contribute to Silverton. We can air our feeling over things that are really important and they actually get attention. In the long run problems that get aired here hopefully will become problems no more.

If one were to read that post standalone, it would convince a lot of people not to ski at Silverton. I'm not sure how that would help.

The point about privacy is that only the people present that day really know what happened. M. Sciortino represents that there wasn't sufficient signage. SM represents otherwise. Who knows what the real situation was. What I can observe from the offender's post is that he's making emotive, personal attacks which don't really help the situation and destroys his credibility.

The principle is to air your problems privately. If they're not addressed, then make a case publicly, but present the facts, not a bunch of whiney, vague and personal accusations. One really has to wonder who's egotistical.

Obviously, I'm not saying YOU have to do it that way. I'm saying that's the way I'd do it.

The Brills are taking a huge risk and have to play tight with the Feds or lose their work and our chance to ski at a really cool place.

Note that there's very few people who actually own a ski area that bother to post here.

Honestly, it's that type of whinging, niggling and axe grinding that makes this forum st00pid.

[Can O'Spam]

OMFG! People expect me to read and follow directions without extensive handholding!

It's not like people here let little things like ropelines stop them either - they bitch when they get busted for crossing those to

Appears that those advocating for roped boundaries and closures are from Colorado, whereas those from other places don't see a problem. I don't think rope boundaries are needed, except in a few instances, and most areas don't exclusively use roped boundaries or closures, particularly if your dealing high exposed areas with big wind and snowfall. Guess it just comes down to, like you said CJ, how much handholding you need.

[BLOOD SWEAT STEEL]

For the most part, I agree with what Buster has said. Well thought out points you have made. Like you said though, none of us know how it really went down that day. I also appreciate that the operator has offered their stance on the issue.

Sure, the pics show a pretty well marked "boundary line." But those are Silverton's pics. Of course they do. Is that how it looked on the day in question? Ehhhh....

Overworking your employees isn't even CLOSE to an acceptable excuse for underservicing your customers. I don't care how "tough" it is out there. I don't care how hard you work. I don't care how "core" you are/think you are/want to look. I don't care. It screams poor decision making and bad management policy loudly and clearly.

You're either a resort or you're not. You don't wear one hat while working the feds and another when you're working marketing angles. If you want to play with the big boys, act like it. Especially if you're already under all this additional scrutiny anyways. Silverton's admitted meh-ish-ness over buying forty bucks worth of rope to easily derail these types of potential issues in the future doesn't set well with me.

[Can O'Spam]

Silverton's admitted meh-ish-ness over buying forty bucks worth of rope to easily derail these types of potential issues in the future doesn't set well with me.

I think the way it works, is once you start making your boundary with a rope, then there might be an implied obligation to mark all or most of it the same way.
Could you imagine doing that at a place like Jackson? That would be insane.

Read the post that start this whole debate: I think its a joke. The guy calls "chutes", shoots. If its real, then he's probably a yahoo who should have his pass pulled.

[KillingCokes]

The principle is to air your problems privately. If they're not addressed, then make a case publicly, but present the facts, not a bunch of whiney, vague and personal accusations. One really has to wonder who's egotistical.

The Brills are taking a huge risk and have to play tight with the Feds or lose their work and our chance to ski at a really cool place.

We are reading about this issue months after the event. We don't know what's transpired between the 2 parties. Hopefully there was some private exchange but who knows.

Obviously the situation was irksome enough to the complainant that he felt the need to air it publicly. Hopefully positive change will come of it and the end result will a good one.

You are right in that this post read standalone would dissuade people from going to Silverton. It would also seem that the complainant is not alone in his frustration over Silverton's policies. It just seems that through constructive conversation that good can come out of this. There is arrogance on both sides but who really knows what the people want until the people speak. The very same people that are the paying customers that Silverton seeks. Silverton stated that they thought we wanted it one way but it would seem that's not the case. This forum is a great tool for Silverton's targeted user group to have a voice. Silverton should listen to that voice and try and mesh with it, as it will just increase the positive experiences that people have at their mountain, and increase visits in the long run.

[BLOOD SWEAT STEEL]

I think the way it works, is once you start making your boundary with a rope, then there might be an implied obligation to mark all or most of it the same way.

Not really. By their own policy - their boundaries are already "implied" by not using rope or other man made barrieirs. Clearly marking them removes any question in anyone's minds and clearly deliniates where you're going to get in trouble for going. To echo what Z said - If I'm going to get a no-questions asked citation, there had better be a rope establishing a no-questions asked boundary.

Just to be clear - I personally think the sticks and signs shown in the photo suffice as marking the boundary. Three red sticks described in the letter do not. Do we know? The presumption that everyone should be responsible for where they ski, while sensible - is a subjective one. We don't live in a world of absolutes, so what someone sees *or chooses to see* isn't the same from one person to the next. But if you're absolutely going to get a ticket, I think the resort has the responsibility to ABSOLUTELY rope off the sign line. All I'm saying is that if it's easy enough to just put up a rope and remove any doubt, then do it.

[AKPogue]

If one were to read that post standalone, it would convince a lot of people not to ski at Silverton. I'm not sure how that would help.

The point about privacy is that only the people present that day really know what happened. M. Sciortino represents that there wasn't sufficient signage. SM represents otherwise. Who knows what the real situation was. What I can observe from the offender's post is that he's making emotive, personal attacks which don't really help the situation and destroys his credibility.

The principle is to air your problems privately. If they're not addressed, then make a case publicly, but present the facts, not a bunch of whiney, vague and personal accusations. One really has to wonder who's egotistical.

Obviously, I'm not saying YOU have to do it that way. I'm saying that's the way I'd do it.

The Brills are taking a huge risk and have to play tight with the Feds or lose their work and our chance to ski at a really cool place.

Note that there's very few people who actually own a ski area that bother to post here.

Honestly, it's that type of whinging, niggling and axe grinding that makes this forum st00pid.

Buster you are right on!!! You get a unique place and people are bitching because it ain't like the other places. I have skied at a few resorts and there are a lot of them that don't have ropes to mark off there entire place. Just sounds to me that like the rest of this country people are expecting to be babysitted there whole life and not take responsibility for there own actions

[Pow4Brains]

Hopefully there was some private exchange but who knows.

To me this is the biggest question. Where was the rep from Silverton when the cops showed up? Did Silverton try to understand how they got off track (if the line wasn’t intentionally poached) to prevent it from happening in the future? Did the “guide” really ski off and leave them in a place where they shouldn’t have been? I’ve always gotten an escort………Gapers or not, they where paying customers that ended up with a bad experience which prolly could have been avoided with the offer of a free beer and some condolences.

Having been to Silverton (and will be in the future), I can say Silverton does do a good job of explaining the safety and boundary issues that demand a higher level of awareness than most “resorts”. I hope this isn’t the end of un-guided skiing……..

[Meadow Skipper]

Dude, are you serious? You really think people would rather get a ticket than see a rope? ...

Those aren't really the choices, are they? I see it as I'd rather pay attention to the directions given at check in than see ropes and be held by the hand.

Having been to Silverton (and will be in the future), I can say Silverton does do a good job of explaining the safety and boundary issues that demand a higher level of awareness than most “resorts”. I hope this isn’t the end of un-guided skiing……..

Exactly. Silverton's not for everyone, this thread just proves that truism.

[powtothepeops]

Dear all those interested in the truth about Aaron Brill and Silverton mountain. This photo tries to make my freinds and I look guilty as hell. However Aaron, when was this photo taken? Certainly not on April 16. Is this what it looks like now since we and everyone else has ripped you a new one?
The purpose of writing this letter to the people is simply to warn them of your attitude as compared to what your marketing is. You have handled this entire situation like any corporate computer would. Don't act you are all rootsy because your not. You called the cops on us before we even got to the bottom of your weak-ass porn-star chute. And then your patrollers tried to make us feel lucky that we got to ride it.
Have you ever ridden Crested Butte? I know at least two of your patrollers who sluffed themselves out. One broke his arm in Argentina and one broke his jaw on Snodgrass (Crested Butte BC), buried his friends and was saved by one of the people you called the cops on. Interesting eh?
I don't trust you or your volunteers who are just looking for pow turns and poachers. Please, bring the photo you have posted here to court and tell us under oath that you took this photo the day we rode over that ridge. Then, I will show mine. We will see what the judge and the people of Silverton think of you then.
Hey everybody, I'm not saying don't go to this place. As long as your expectations aren't too high, you should have a great day. High expectation riders should stay in the real BC.

trea

[cj001f]

Yup, just another douchebag with an axe to grind.

Move along folks, move along.

[Pow4Brains]

Trea, Given your apparent experience, it really makes it hard for me to believe you didn't know where you were going.

[EZB]

I think Silverton Mtn's last post was pretty good, but one of the other ones...wow, it sure did distract most of you on this forum into thinking the issue was roping off cliffs.

To me the main issue is: How can zero tolerance on the one hand require citations for actions that were unintended, while on the other hand there was infinite tolerance of the intentional instruction to ski the run anyway (behind the patroller). That's ridiculous. You can't have it both ways. If there really is zero tolerance, you catch them, bring them back in bounds, then escort them down.

Additionally Silverton Mtn proves they have attitude problems by writing at least one disingenious argument here.

[powtothepeops]

THIS PHOTO TAKEN APRIL 16, THE DAY AARON CALLED THE COPS ON US. I HOPE PEOPLE REALIZE NOW WHAT KIND OF BOY YOU REALLY ARE AARON. ONE SIGN, WRITTEN IN BLACK MARKER THAT WAS BELOW HIGH TRAVERSE LINE. CAUTION ANYONE? YEA, THAT'S WHAT WE THOUGHT TOO, THATS WHY WE WENT THERE WITH OUR SHOVELS,BEACONS, AND EACH OTHER.

TREA SCIORTINO

[Cyber Cop]

Wow, you poor fucking baby. life is a bitch, you should keep bitching and stay home.

[Cyber Cop]

I'm not wearing my beer goggles so I only see like 5 bamboo markers in a distinct line. Hmmm, I wonder what that means? I mean man there was just bamboo everywhere? WTF?

[Adamantium]

THIS PHOTO TAKEN APRIL 16, THE DAY AARON CALLED THE COPS ON US. I HOPE PEOPLE REALIZE NOW WHAT KIND OF BOY YOU REALLY ARE AARON. ONE SIGN, WRITTEN IN BLACK MARKER THAT WAS BELOW HIGH TRAVERSE LINE. CAUTION ANYONE? YEA, THAT'S WHAT WE THOUGHT TOO, THATS WHY WE WENT THERE WITH OUR SHOVELS,BEACONS, AND EACH OTHER.

TREA SCIORTINO

that picture looks.... just like the others posted except from a different angle.

[Pow4Brains]

^^^^^What he said^^^^^

I suppose all the other tracks went to the closed area too.

[Danno]

THIS PHOTO TAKEN APRIL 16, THE DAY AARON CALLED THE COPS ON US. I HOPE PEOPLE REALIZE NOW WHAT KIND OF BOY YOU REALLY ARE AARON. ONE SIGN, WRITTEN IN BLACK MARKER THAT WAS BELOW HIGH TRAVERSE LINE. CAUTION ANYONE? YEA, THAT'S WHAT WE THOUGHT TOO, THATS WHY WE WENT THERE WITH OUR SHOVELS,BEACONS, AND EACH OTHER.

TREA SCIORTINO

Sorry, but your picture does look just like his. And given the kind of place it is, that should be a reasonably obvious closure. Score 5 pts for SIlverton.

[mr_gyptian]

THIS PHOTO TAKEN APRIL 16, THE DAY AARON CALLED THE COPS ON US. I HOPE PEOPLE REALIZE NOW WHAT KIND OF BOY YOU REALLY ARE AARON. ONE SIGN, WRITTEN IN BLACK MARKER THAT WAS BELOW HIGH TRAVERSE LINE. CAUTION ANYONE? YEA, THAT'S WHAT WE THOUGHT TOO, THATS WHY WE WENT THERE WITH OUR SHOVELS,BEACONS, AND EACH OTHER.

TREA SCIORTINO

Let me get this straight you are attempting to sully the name of the most progressive resort in the Lower 48 over $30. grow up.

they obviously walk a very tight line and are more than diligent with forewarning clients about the consequences of skiing out of bounds. What makes you think you are special/different?

Another question I've got for Silverton is that with respect to the BLM vs. Forest Service land. Vail Patrol has said numerous times that you can't get in trouble exiting their resort. either from the mountain or forest service. however skiing closed terrain with in the resort boundaries is a punishable offense. skiing where these guys were off billboard "shoot", were they still within resort property or OB? If I recall, from skiing billboard a couple of years ago you can get outside of SM's boundary.

[powtothepeops]

I think the way it works, is once you start making your boundary with a rope, then there might be an implied obligation to mark all or most of it the same way.
Could you imagine doing that at a place like Jackson? That would be insane.

Read the post that start this whole debate: I think its a joke. The guy calls "chutes", shoots. If its real, then he's probably a yahoo who should have his pass pulled.

Thank you for correcting my mispellings. You remind me of my grammer school spelling teacher. Speaking of Jackson, don't you look for the bamboo and head strait for it since you are so sick, sick-bird? About pulling our passes, those in CB know where we ride.

[hutash]

Correct me if I am wrong, but the last picture shows 5 boos evenly placed, one with a sign on it, all tracks stopping at the boos, and this suggests to me a boundary line. If this is the picture you are using as your defense, I suggest saving the trip to court, and mail in the fine.

[bcd]

I just read this entire thread, and the whole time I really wanted to stick up for the defendants. It sounded like they had a legitimate gripe.

Then you posted that photo.

Sorry pal, but I don't think you're getting any sympathy anymore now that the facts are in.

[The AD]

What bcd said.

The bamboo line is clearly designating a closed area or a boundary and if someone chose to ignore it they really can't piss and moan that they suffered whatever consequences they incurred.