Verbier, then where?

[Arno]

Make sure u go to the farm club and take down some russian girls for me.. best party in europe i think..

...and post pics

taking your touring gear isn't essential but you really will open up your options at all three places if you have AT gear. won't be difficult to hire though

should be a great trip. looking forward to the TR already!

[subtle plague]

[ typical pseudo cryptic subtle_plague comment] there are places farther east than kitzbühel. hehe...[/tspc]

i'll add another vote for follow the snow. if you're in the innsbruck area, say hello.

woohaa ?. am i famous now ?
btw. id just LOVE to go to other areas but since i ususally follow the snow, i didn't have many possibilities during the last years, especially early season. (damn i just need to get back to la grave)

as for advice:
well just go for the snow.(that makes me another on the follow snow list) early season can be quite depressing otherwise.

[bigtrubs]

Make sure u go to the farm club and take down some russian girls for me.. best party in europe i think..

I'M A FREAKING GIRL!

[JoeStrummer]

Going all the way to Kitzbuhel from Verbier is much like driving from Jackson Hole to go skiing at Brian Head. You would need to be addled to do this. Note that.

Go to La Grave. If you ski Whister, you'll be used to the funky snow conditions. When your old man is utterly fucked, then take him to Serre Chevalier or Alpe d'Huez. Make him eat crepes. I guarantee he will like this.

Go to Chamonix as well. You will remember the experience and your friends will think you are a skiing goddess when you regale them with stories about how you killed a Frenchman and threw his corpse into a crevasse.

Following the snow is overrated. You can ski decent fluffy snow often in the US/Canada. Go for the terrain. That's what differentiates European skiing.

This is the finest post I have ever read on the Alps. He is exactly right, Europe is about the terrain and the wine - if you want powder, hang around Steamboat. I go to Cham every year and come back to the States and people ask, "How was the snow?"

My answer? "Who cares!"

[gamma]

I'M A FREAKING GIRL!

hahahahahahaha.... ok if i see u in the farm while im there, (i may be there 26th - 30th for a day or something) and ur a cutie ill be sure to take you home!!!

seriously, if u like to ski mad stuff, and party like a rockstar, verbier is your place. the nightlife is legendary as is the skiing... furry shovel for lunch, pub mont fort, apreski at the farinet with the rocking band, the farm late at night, make sure u drink the local pinot, it is amazing and have some of the local cheese. there is a sick fondue place in town.. the guys in there are excellent fun!!!! try the schnapps and the raclette!!!!!

yes, its true that the snow isnt Utah or colorado, but if you are ballsy and willing to look for it, u can make freshies all over the place. just remember, this is a steep mountain.. its a LOT steeper than a colorado mtn. mont fort will scare you im sure, and the view from the top is unreal!!!!! u should hit les savroylers thats wicked.. get a guide, get him to show u backside of bressons.. there is almost always fresh there.. but go with a guide as it can be mega-dangereux if u dont know where the cliffs and crevasses are. I am jealous and all this talking is pushing me to go for a day or two.. seriously i love the place.

I can also say skiing augille du midi is something everyone should do at least once. the chutes have fresh snow.. and its a great trip/day/time..

and for the record.. if we are lucky enough to get a dumping while there, u will NEVER forget it.. cause thats when it gets unreal.. have a look at my article on biglines... http://www.biglines.com/articles_rea...le=1&read=3153 look at the pics.. the bluebird sky stuff is at verbier resort.

I will be flying into zurich 26th i think.. plan is krippenstien, st anton and kitzbuhl for NYE ( i have a good mate who lives there).. send me a pm maybe can meet up.
send me an email i can send u a few other pics to get u stoked!!!!!

[Hicks]

At the time you are going you probably have to decide what's more important for you (and your dad of course). As many mentioned the greater mountains and scenery is west whereas the better snow in January is usually east.

If heading west you can expect snow especially at high altitudes often being wind affected and temps chilling - if that's your dad's thing then go. In that respect Cham is a good option - Courmayeur on the Italian side can still provide good conditions even when Monte Bianco's north side isn't epic.

In case you decide to head east I would hit Engelberg and/or Arlberg for a great snow and terrain combo and to keep driving reasonably. Kitzbühel is a long drive for usually worse snow and terrain - it just lacks elevation.

[verbier61]

snow is never overrated. This is a stupid sentence. The terrain in alagna - for instance - is unbelievable, but there has been no snow for so many winter months in alagna the past 3 or so years that going there only for the terrain would be stupid.
Late december might be really at risk for snow in verb (well I've skied there only for the past 12-14 years, so might be it was different some 20 years ago), so it might be worth to be ready to drive where the snow is. Two winters ago, for instance, all the good stuff was almost unskiable up to the big dump of early january. So check with guide and locals before driving to - say - la grave. sometimes is even more dry than verb.
Bringing you AT stuff is not necessary. There are at least three rentals in verb with very good AT gear for rent (evasion at savoleyres, mountain air and ski service at medran) so you have a good chance to demo new AT stuff , which is always fun.
Gamma: the pigne by heli is simply a shame. why use the heli to get a summit which you can reach in 3-4 hours with the skins? I agree with all the guides that blame the choice to open the pigne to the heli. I understand the petit combin and trient heli options (these are spots almost unreachable with skins in a day), but INVHO the pigne should be a skin-only place.

[wildstyle]

go from verbier to chamonix.

There is tons to do in chamonix as its more of a real town than most places in the alps and you're well placed to go under the montblanc tunnel to go to courmayeur.

If you have a hire car , drive for a few hours to get to the bourg st maurice valley or on to la grave / alpe d'huez

[NieveSurfeador]

if your in switzerland i would highly recommend hitting up some of the places that get overlooked like zinal and lenzerheide... zinal is sick... it has some sweet terrain to find and some gnarly features... the big names are incredible but im not into the whole apres ski thing and so long as i have a bed and can take the occasional shower, accomodation means dick... that being said ive definitely enjoyed my fair share of mid mountain drunkeness and spa treatment

hope that helps
cheers

[Wobbly Pirate]

snow is never overrated. This is a stupid sentence. The terrain in alagna - for instance - is unbelievable, but there has been no snow for so many winter months in alagna the past 3 or so years that going there only for the terrain would be stupid.

And you, my friend, have utterly missed the point. Imagine travelling to the States only to be told by somebody who lives at Snowbird that you'd really like Mount Baker because the mountains are almost as big as the ones in Europe.

I didn't expect to have to add the rider that some snow is a necessity and yes, there is a great deal to be said for skiing great snow. Travelling all the way from Canada to ski at an 800m vert hill just because it has good snow is idiotic if there's respectable snow to the valley floor in places like Chamonix, La Grave, Engelberg, Andermatt or St Anton.

By all means hit the little areas that rock but if you're going to drop the coin, then you need to sample the incredible resorts of the Alps. Powder days blend into one another. Ski resorts like Chamonix and La Grave burn indelible memories.

[Mulletizer]

Ski resorts like Chamonix and La Grave burn indelible memories.

There also the places that suck most when the snow's crap. Some would say that a trip to La Grave or Chamonix is a wasted trip if you can't ski the stuff they are famous for - big vert runs, huge glacial terrain, 1000m couloirs. And at places like that the alternatives when snow is rubbish are limited.

Have you ever been to Chamonix or La Grave when it's been really boney? As it often is in December and early January, especially after the sort of redonkulously hot summer we've had. If you have then you'd most likely have indelible memories of how miserable the skiing was...

[Wobbly Pirate]

Familiarity has dulled your sense of wonder.

[Hicks]

Doesn't change the fact that Mulletizer is spot on.

[Mulletizer]

Familiarity has dulled your sense of wonder.

Not at all. I just go to that sort of place mainly to ski rather than gawp. If I wanted to see them at their most stunning I'd be there in early summer.

[Buster Highmen]

Snow dependency is obvious and as M-tizer points out, especially so at La Grave.

That said, the question regarding planning has two answers:
1) Follow the snow.
or
2) Consider La Grave.

In either case, I think there's a consensus about renting a car. While trains are great, there's often issues with getting from the gare to the piste. Plus integrating an auto into the mix will afford going to La Grave to gawk and sample the snow and then heading elsewhere.

[Wobbly Pirate]

To ski for a day, even in poor conditions is worthwhile. There are many ski areas nearby that can offer reliable snow as a backup.

Both Mulletizer and verbier61 are taking a valid point and teasing it to its extreme. The equivalent would be me saying that the driest and deepest snow in December/January is in Lappland.

[Snowbird Commuter]

La Grave and Chamonix - Sick terrain will re-define "Big Mountain" and "Steep" in your world. You think you've seen it.... you haven't.

HIRE A GUIDE - find out who the best are, go to the guide himself and talk about what you want to do - don't hire one through your hotel. The hotel guides will be tailored to the group package tourist (and suck accordingly). If you go into a guide service and explain that you want to get scared, they'll be incredibly happy to hook you up.

Chamonix doesn't have a "better town" it has a real town. The place is more busy in the summer than in the winter which really says something about how complete and functioning the place is. If your dad needs downtime he'll be happy roaming the streets for a couple days.

Honestly, it's a different game out there. Nobody tells you to slow down, nobody tells you where to go. You want to huck that cliff over a beginner's traverse..... try not to hurt yourself. If you do, prepare to pay dearly for your rescue (that's not free either so buy the insurance), but nobody will frown or scold you for doing something obviously dangerous.

There's nothing sanitized about the mountains there. Look and know before you go there. Don't blindly follow tracks without knowing where they end up, they might just go to another town.

There are a TON of other places to go in the alps, many of which have been mentioned here. Fact is though V, C, LG are three of the best and a season at each wouldn't be enough time to fully explore their terrain. Pick 2 places and really get to know them.

I spent 3 years working in London with basically 3 weekends a month in the alps... somewhere. I probably hit 15 different resorts in that time and found myself going back to the above 3 again and again.

I'm jealous - have a great time.