50 years to the day

[MultiVerse]

FWIW, Iran's and Hamas's strategy is attritional. They seek (sought) to destroy Israel through a combination of constant bombardment, psychological warfare i.e. terrorism, and economic ruin. The latter is where Hamas's Western supporters come into play. Their protests are meant to persuade Western politicians to isolate Israel economically, destroying its export driven economy. You can't have a powerful modern defense without an advanced economy to back it up.

[californiagrown]

mcski: You believe Hamas can "only" cause great injury, death, suffering, and terror, and not the total elimination of Israel, at least, not directly. But then what should Israel do? You don't think it is valid for them to get rid of Hamas? Or is it your belief that Israel should therefor not permanently remove Hamas from power and instead forever live under constant and future attack from Hamas, and wall off Gaza, and play whack a mole bombing rocket sites and storage depots that are usually intentionally co-located with sensitive civilian infrastructure? Or is that not what you are arguing for? Then what are you actually arguing for? I mean besides the simple "I don't like what Israel is doing!" that doesn't seem to include a "what they should do instead is..."???

If youre the Hatfields, do you just shoot the McCoys of age, or do you also burn the nursery down too? Israel seems all too content to just light the whole house on fire and watch them all die... because, what else can they do?

[MultiVerse]

If the goal is to "watch them all die" then why is Israel providing & facilitating humanitarian aid?

[ex-powderbroker]

If youre the Hatfields, do you just shoot the McCoys of age, or do you also burn the nursery down too? Israel seems all too content to just light the whole house on fire and watch them all die... because, what else can they do?

Like the fact that Bibi has not been PM for thirty years, is it possible that you are not looking at this factually?

There are certainly some opinions that differ from your statement despite a couple of repugnant politicians that should also find themselves unemployed or next to bibi in jail at the wars conclusion.

https://www.newsweek.com/israel-has-...pinion-1883286

[Cisco Kid]

Bibis aid is political theater. You are welcome

[J. Barron DeJong]

Bibis aid is political theater. You are welcome

Also, international law requires them to give food and medical aid?

Quote- it is literally a basic part of international law that *you feed the occupied population.*. Ukraine did, indeed, make sure that Russians were fed when it invaded and briefly held parts of Kursk. The British and Americans fed the German population in WW2!

https://bsky.app/profile/beijingpalm.../3ltdfden2as22

Article 55 states that “To the fullest extent of the means available to it, the Occupying Power has the duty of ensuring the food and medical supplies of the population; it should, in particular, bring in the necessary foodstuffs, medical stores and other articles if the resources of the occupied territory are inadequate.

https://www.ohchr.org/en/special-pro...ritory%2520are

[MultiVerse]

It's not "theater." Israel is doing for Gazans what Hamas refuses to do: save lives. And to answer the second question "because, what else can they do?" Arab Palestinians can make peace with Israel.

That's what more than 700,000 Arabs in Hebron just proposed. A New Palestinian Offer for Peace With Israel, Hebron’s sheikhs propose to leave the Palestinian Authority and join the Abraham Accords.

"“We want cooperation with Israel,” says Sheikh Wadee’ al-Jaabari, also known as Abu Sanad, from his ceremonial tent in Hebron, the West Bank’s largest city located south of Jerusalem. “We want coexistence.” The leader of Hebron’s most influential clan has said such things before, as did his father. But this time is different. Sheikh Jaabari and four other leading Hebron sheikhs have signed a letter pledging peace and full recognition of Israel as a Jewish state. "

https://www.wsj.com/opinion/new-pale...irate-36dd39c3

[Cisco Kid]

Oh I did not know you were there on the ground and saw. What a Rube.

[MultiVerse]

lol @ the ground? Hamas supporters in California like Wooley are the real rubes, easily played. Hamas continues to steal most of the humanitarian aid sent to the population. Watch as Hamas hands out small food packages and water to children, films it, and then takes it back before moving on to the next child:

https://x.com/PenhaLisbeth/status/1942672976916402615

[mcski]

You know who else provided food for people they ultimately wanted to die?

Perhaps it’s time Israel lets the foreign press into Gaza?

[MultiVerse]

There is a foreign press in Gaza... or ...wait, are you saying the press in Gaza are really Hamas terrorists masquerading as journalists?

[californiagrown]

Like the fact that Bibi has not been PM for thirty years, is it possible that you are not looking at this factually?

Could be. And factually pootin has only been PM for 5 years... true story.

But, then again maybe i am looking at the reality of the situation, just like the reality that Bibi has been either PM or HEAVILY influential in running the political show in Israel for ~27 out of the past 30 years (6terms and nearly 18 years as PM, various high level political posts in the middle to keep a heavy hand on the scales).

Is Israel doing EVERYTHING it can to minimize suffering and civilian casualties in gaza, or is it doing the MINIMUM it has to under international law? Or is it somewhere in between? Is somewhere in between acceptable to you?

[MultiVerse]

This could all end tomorrow if Hamas released the hostages and disarmed. Israel is even offering safe passage for Hamas terrorists to the country of their choice

[mcski]

There is a foreign press in Gaza... or ...wait, are you saying the press in Gaza are really Hamas terrorists masquerading as journalists?

Why obfuscate the fact that since the war against Hamas started, Israel has blocked foreign journalists from independently entering Gaza?

[californiagrown]

This could all end tomorrow if Hamas released the hostages and disarmed. Israel is even offering safe passage for Hamas terrorists to the country of their choice

Similarly, the police standoff with the drunken husband holding his wife and kids at gunpoint could end today if he simply put down his weapon. Meanwhile, the police keep firing on the house and lobbing in tear gas without a lot of care for the wife or kids... she loved and married him once, and the kids were raised to love him... if they really wanted to be released they could just talk him into it. Fuck em.

[MultiVerse]

Obfuscate? Israel does let some but not all foreign press in Gaza.

Israel says security concerns is the reason for not allowing journalists independent access to Gaza. They're worried journalist safety plus reporting endangering troops or compromising military operations. The government says the situation in Gaza is too dangerous to allow access without military escort. Media organizations on the other hand say these restrictions hinder independent reporting, limiting the world's understanding of the conflict. Some believe the denial of access is less about safety and more about preventing scrutiny.

FWIW, Hamas does have a history of killing journalists critical of Hamas. Hamas themselves are currently releasing videos of their ongoing crackdown of anyone critical of the terrorist organization.

[MultiVerse]

Similarly, the police standoff with the drunken husband holding his wife and kids at gunpoint could end today if he simply put down his weapon. Meanwhile, the police keep firing on the house and lobbing in tear gas without a lot of care for the wife or kids... she loved and married him once, and the kids were raised to love him... if they really wanted to be released they could just talk him into it. Fuck em.

Was your intent to frame the argument in such a way to argue Palestinians are incapable of making peace because Hamas holds an assassin’s veto?

[mcski]

Israel has banned all foreign press from Gaza since this started. The few times foreign press has been given access has been on tightly orchestrated events managed by Israel. If Israel was actually being transparent they’d remove the ban on entry. U less of course, they are concerned about losing control of their propaganda narrative. Israel always has an excuse at the ready though so is it any wonder why so many are critical of their actions? There’s a lot of it out there that isn’t just so called useful idiots or the microscopic percentage that actually supports Hamas and its actions

[MultiVerse]

Do you mean useful idiot Hamas supporters who denied Hamas engaged in rape & sexual violence against women on 10/7?

[mcski]

Go ahead and deflect. What about NINE ELEVEN!!!

[MultiVerse]

I'm not deflecting. I'm pointing out that you were one of those Hamas supporting people, a useful idiot, denying Hamas atrocities and defending Hamas's invasion of Israel

[summit]

mcski did you have an answer to my reasonable question?

Does anyone?

Is it your belief that Israel should not permanently remove Hamas from power and instead forever live under constant and future attack from Hamas, and wall off Gaza, and play whack a mole bombing rocket sites and storage depots that are usually intentionally co-located with sensitive civilian infrastructure?

Or is that not what you are arguing for besides actively not liking what Israel is doing?

Then what are you actually arguing for Israel to do, specifically?

[mcski]

I'm not deflecting. I'm pointing out that you were one of those Hamas supporting people, a useful idiot, denying Hamas atrocities and defending Hamas's invasion of Israel

Deflecting and Now flat out lying that myself or actually anyone in here for that matter is supporting Hamas. But that seems to be the go to move for Israeli propaganda chuggers is to accuse anyone criticizing Israel is actually supporting Hamas.

[mcski]

mcski did you have an answer to my reasonable question?

Does anyone?

Is it your belief that Israel should not permanently remove Hamas from power and instead forever live under constant and future attack from Hamas, and wall off Gaza, and play whack a mole bombing rocket sites and storage depots that are usually intentionally co-located with sensitive civilian infrastructure?

Or is that not what you are arguing for besides actively not liking what Israel is doing?

Then what are you actually arguing for Israel to do, specifically?

Israel has three basic choices.

Leave and let palestians do what ever they want to do

Occupy Gaza indefinitely

Have some Arab Neighbors provide peacekeeping / security for the area and get out

Hamas is an idea that is unlikely to go away. Especially if Israel continues to expand settlements in the West Bank. AFAIK Israel hasnt done anything (yet) about Hamas leadership in Qatar. If those guys are still around , Israeli can continue to flatten Gaza all it wants and it really won’t do anything except kill civilians and convince more people that killing Jews is a viable alternative to negotiating w Israel-

[J. Barron DeJong]

Deflecting and Now flat out lying that myself...

It is the MV waaayyyy!!!!