New Season, New Tires, New Thread

[Falcon3]

So like 50g heavier than an Aggressor 2.5, but softer rubber? Better tread design?

The Xynotal (Enduro soft) rolls about like a Dissector but with way better traction. The knob layout is great for hardpack up to moderately deep soft, obviously excels at shoulder season damp dirt.

Tread compound is stickier than MaxxTerra but still rolls better, in all my Soft Conti tires I notice way less skittering on slabs and generally great hookup

[Boissal]

Went from Dissector rear to Spec Eliminator rear and never looked back. The Dissector didn't last long and I punctured exo+ quite regularly. I haven't punctured a grid trail Elim yet (I did manage to flat a grid gravity one a few days ago though), and while the smaller center knobs are falling apart the tire is wearing pretty evenly and retains more braking power than I'd have expected, especially compared to the Dissector. Both are really predictable in terms of sliding them around which I really like. Rolling resistance feels about the same.

I just swapped a pretty shot Butcher from the front to the rear of the big bike and put a new Butcher up front. It's an interesting combo, seems to brake a bit better than Elim rear but not by much, and it's less predictable in terms of sliding around. Butcher front is definitely great, I like it better than the DHF I'm running on my other bike. It was nice to go back to a trail casing in the front, for me gravity casing is overkill even on the big bike and the weight loss is substantial.

If anyone's in need Specialized is selling the Eliminator grid gravity for $50 now (29 2.3 wide).

[teledad]

Anyone have time on a tacky chan yet as a rear?

Ran a Tacky Chan (Super Trail, Soft) in the rear for a bit. Cornered well but seemed a bit slow to me, and didn't think it was a good match for the Butcher I had up front (I generally want the rear to wash out before the front, but the TC seemed to hold better than the Butcher). I wound up swapping it out for an Aggressor, might try the Tacky Chan as a front when the Butcher is done. An Asssegai (F) / Tacky Chan (R) might be a good combo for a gravity oriented bike.

[Dromond]

Yeah that was a big reason I went back to DHFs, aside from knowing them and trusting them. And you can usually find them on sale. Dissectors, not so often. I did pick up a few on one of the big web sales last fall though.

Don’t run the same casing/compound front/rear and just cycle the front to the back? I’ve rarely ran the DHF on the rear. Seems like it handles well but brakes just OK?

[Dromond]

I’d like suggestions for a new summer/shoulder season tire setup for western WA/coastal PNW. The bike is a 150/135 29” trail bike. I’ve run 2.5 3C DHF EXO front and 2.5 Aggressor dual EXO rear now. I swap to these when it’s consistently dry ish in June and back to softer compound rubbed (maxxGrip and 3c) when it starts raining again in September. This setup is fine but when it gets really dry and loose in the summer, the DHF can feel drifty and the aggressor just doesn’t have tall enough knobs to dig in. I don’t mind something a little slower but not crazy slow. I don’t need heavier casings. I wouldn’t mind if it was better in slippery root/rock conditions but you have to pick a choose, and I don’t want to be swapping tires more than 2x per year like I do now. I see a lot of people are liking Continentals now, but I can't make sense of what the equivalent casing to EXO is.

[grabtindy]

The trail casing is pretty close to exo, the Enduro casing is noticeably stiffer. AFAIK, you can only get the hardest rubber on the trail casing at the moment.

[toast2266]

I’d like suggestions for a new summer/shoulder season tire setup for western WA/coastal PNW. The bike is a 150/135 29” trail bike. I’ve run 2.5 3C DHF EXO front and 2.5 Aggressor dual EXO rear now. I swap to these when it’s consistently dry ish in June and back to softer compound rubbed (maxxGrip and 3c) when it starts raining again in September. This setup is fine but when it gets really dry and loose in the summer, the DHF can feel drifty and the aggressor just doesn’t have tall enough knobs to dig in. I don’t mind something a little slower but not crazy slow. I don’t need heavier casings. I wouldn’t mind if it was better in slippery root/rock conditions but you have to pick a choose, and I don’t want to be swapping tires more than 2x per year like I do now. I see a lot of people are liking Continentals now, but I can't make sense of what the equivalent casing to EXO is.

Assegai / eliminator? (Or ass / dhr2 if you don't mind being a little slower)

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[Dromond]

The trail casing is pretty close to exo, the Enduro casing is noticeably stiffer. AFAIK, you can only get the hardest rubber on the trail casing at the moment.

Got it - so for a front tire where I want a light casing and soft rubber, it sounds like Conti just isn't offering anything yet. Too bad because Kryptotal looks like a nice tread design.

Assegai / eliminator? (Or ass / dhr2 if you don't mind being a little slower)

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I run a 3C DHR2 in the back in winter. I've run the dual one in summer and it was decent - maybe overkill? Thanks for the eliminator recommendation. A few friends have the 3C Assegai in the front. I've heard it's a bit slow but maybe that is OK for a front tire. I love the DHF when it is tacky to wet/slippery, but in loose dry dust/gravel I feel like the sweet spot becomes quite small.

[carlh]

Butcher t9 feels like a better dhf to me. Quicker and more positive engagement if the side knobs and better braking. Maybe it’s slower but hard to tell on the front. I am currently running butcher/dissector on the hardtail and it’s a fun combo with good grip, can drift the rear and fast enough for a weeknight xc race.
Big bike has magic Mary/eliminator but the t7 eliminator is sketchy on wet roots so I would recommend going t9. Not sure the fast rear is worth it for my riding on that bike which is mostly i90 tech.
From what I’ve read the contis are only good in the soft or super soft compound.

Got it - so for a front tire where I want a light casing and soft rubber, it sounds like Conti just isn't offering anything yet. Too bad because Kryptotal looks like a nice tread design.



I run a 3C DHR2 in the back in winter. I've run the dual one in summer and it was decent - maybe overkill? Thanks for the eliminator recommendation. A few friends have the 3C Assegai in the front. I've heard it's a bit slow but maybe that is OK for a front tire. I love the DHF when it is tacky to wet/slippery, but in loose dry dust/gravel I feel like the sweet spot becomes quite small.

[toast2266]

I run a 3C DHR2 in the back in winter. I've run the dual one in summer and it was decent - maybe overkill? Thanks for the eliminator recommendation. A few friends have the 3C Assegai in the front. I've heard it's a bit slow but maybe that is OK for a front tire. I love the DHF when it is tacky to wet/slippery, but in loose dry dust/gravel I feel like the sweet spot becomes quite small.

Yeah, assegai is definitely slower than the dhf, but as a front tire, I don't find it to be unreasonable. Especially when paired with something faster rolling like an eliminator (which rides somewhat similarly to a dissector - dissector is better, but costs a lot more and wears out way quicker). I usually go with the t7/t9 eliminator for mid summer uses when all out grip isn't quite as important and longevity is appreciated.

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[rpearce1475]

Fellow PNW rider here. My preferred non wet season tire setup is Butcher Grid Trail T9 front, Eliminator Grid Gravity T7/T9 rear. I've found the T7/T9 eliminator to be more than adequate until the trails get more muddy and then the tread clogs up. The eliminator grid gravity weighs ~1250g, so around 200g more than the grid trail which is about the same weight as the cushcore insert I always had to run in it before to not flat and the more robust casing gets you the softer compound side knobs which makes a noticeable difference in my experience. Conti soft is fine for the rear here but is trash for the front unless it's bone dry. Don't bother with the endurance compound I found it subpar even in full on dry conditions. Conti supersoft DH casing is great but minimum 1300g per tire with every example I've run. I run Cannibal T9 grid gravity front/rear on my big wheels and do prefer the tread pattern to the Butcher (it has taller knobs that are more ramped so it's about the same rolling resistance but more traction) and if they ever make that in Grid Trail I'll never buy another Butcher. But they're 1400g on my scale so a little much for normal trail use.

[SchralphMacchio]

Yeah I’m on board with all these comments.

I am totally happy with Butcher Butcher for when PNW loam completely dries out and trails get a little loose and powdery on top, but I will add that there is probably something to the folks who complain about the alignment between corner blocks and center blocks on that tire which gives a continuous lateral (more diagonal) channel opening that doesn’t block off a slide in loose dry conditions as well as a DHF or Mazza where the corner blocks are more aligned to close off the opening between center blocks. EXO Assegai is probably the best answer for the front in these conditions, at least until a Kryptotal Trail Soft is marketed.

The other comment I’ll make is that in my part of the PNW, we go from loose dry to sporadic wet really fast (case in point, Oakridge got like 3” of rain in the last week and a half, which usually doesn’t happen in August, but early September is not uncommon). So the loose dry can be such a short part of the PNW season that I’m more apt to skip over something like an Ass front DHR2 rear and go straight to a Hillbilly front / Butcher rear as soon as the fast and fun Dissector starts feeling undergunned; the Hillbilly might drag a bit more in dry August conditions, but it will bite super well, and then when things are freshly wet that tire will dominate up front, especially doing better on wet roots than a Dissector, DHF/Mazza/Butcher. One thing that skews my perspective is that valley and coastal mountain soils here are very clay rich compared to the hero loam in the west slope Cascades, so I tend to prioritize tires that bite and shed in wet clay-loam soil, which is the main reason I stopped using the DHF in favor of the Butcher years ago.

[zion zig zag]

I've been running a DHF/Aggressor combo for spring till mid summer when trails are mixed/hardpack and then switching to an Assagai/DHR when the dust gets deep and loose and then I just leave that on for a return to fall moisture. Usually I'm fit enough by then to not mind the slower rolling combo later in the year. This is Utah/Idaho/WY zone.

[Dromond]

Yeah I’m on board with all these comments.

I am totally happy with Butcher Butcher for when PNW loam completely dries out and trails get a little loose and powdery on top, but I will add that there is probably something to the folks who complain about the alignment between corner blocks and center blocks on that tire which gives a continuous lateral (more diagonal) channel opening that doesn’t block off a slide in loose dry conditions as well as a DHF or Mazza where the corner blocks are more aligned to close off the opening between center blocks. EXO Assegai is probably the best answer for the front in these conditions, at least until a Kryptotal Trail Soft is marketed.

The other comment I’ll make is that in my part of the PNW, we go from loose dry to sporadic wet really fast (case in point, Oakridge got like 3” of rain in the last week and a half, which usually doesn’t happen in August, but early September is not uncommon). So the loose dry can be such a short part of the PNW season that I’m more apt to skip over something like an Ass front DHR2 rear and go straight to a Hillbilly front / Butcher rear as soon as the fast and fun Dissector starts feeling undergunned; the Hillbilly might drag a bit more in dry August conditions, but it will bite super well, and then when things are freshly wet that tire will dominate up front, especially doing better on wet roots than a Dissector, DHF/Mazza/Butcher. One thing that skews my perspective is that valley and coastal mountain soils here are very clay rich compared to the hero loam in the west slope Cascades, so I tend to prioritize tires that bite and shed in wet clay-loam soil, which is the main reason I stopped using the DHF in favor of the Butcher years ago.

Thanks for the expected full brain dump. The soil type is an interesting difference. Even when it is wet here in western WA, I rarely suffer mud packing up in a front DHF. Still, I bet a more open tread like the Hillbilly would not hurt for winter riding here as the soil does get softer.

I've been running a DHF/Aggressor combo for spring till mid summer when trails are mixed/hardpack and then switching to an Assagai/DHR when the dust gets deep and loose and then I just leave that on for a return to fall moisture. Usually I'm fit enough by then to not mind the slower rolling combo later in the year. This is Utah/Idaho/WY zone.

That makes sense to me. Until it is truly dry/loose, I think the DHF is one of the best tires. The "drift channel" is not a problem then, and it really locks in when cornering!

[Huskier]

Anybody have any beta on Continental's lineup for next season? Specifically wondering if they're bringing the soft compound to their trail layup. Right now it seems you have to go enduro or heavier if you want softer...

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[Abies]

Another vote for the butcher eliminator combo in T9 front. Definitely still rideable when it gets a little wet so you can eek 4-5 months of use out of them in the PNW. It’s become my go-to all year in coastal NorCal with a shorter damp season but I ran it for a summer in Oregon as well.


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[XtrPickels]

Yeah I’m on board with all these comments.

I am totally happy with Butcher Butcher for when PNW loam completely dries out and trails get a little loose and powdery on top, but I will add that there is probably something to the folks who complain about the alignment between corner blocks and center blocks on that tire which gives a continuous lateral (more diagonal) channel opening that doesn’t block off a slide in loose dry conditions as well as a DHF or Mazza where the corner blocks are more aligned to close off the opening between center blocks. EXO Assegai is probably the best answer for the front in these conditions, at least until a Kryptotal Trail Soft is marketed.

Yes
I think it's both channel, but also pressure. For the vast majority of riders through the vast majority of corners they're engaging both the center and side knobs simultaneously.
When the side knob is adjacent to the center knob is it always sharing pressure with it. When these aren't directly under the tire there is low pressure so it oscillates between shared and low pressure as the tire rotates.
When the side-knob is offset then there is oscillating high pressure to high pressure - it just varies whether the center knobs or the side-knobs have the highest.

This becomes more apparent as the ground gets harder.

[rideit]

Due to irrational pandemic hoarding, I have three Assegai’s that need to go.
All 29”, 2.5, Maxx Terra, EXO.
$60 each, or all three for $150, and I’ll pay shipping.

[rpearce1475]

Anybody have any beta on Continental's lineup for next season? Specifically wondering if they're bringing the soft compound to their trail layup. Right now it seems you have to go enduro or heavier if you want softer...

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Someone posted on MTBR they messaged Conti customer service about this and were told "we're looking to expand our gravity tire offerings sometime next year" but wouldn't say anything more...

[Huskier]

Someone posted on MTBR they messaged Conti customer service about this and were told "we're looking to expand our gravity tire offerings sometime next year" but wouldn't say anything more...

That is a bummer. I just mounted up an Argotal and reached for the enduro build to get their soft compound (Bead hooked up just fine and no issues mounting at all). Pretty ok compound but Jesus Hercules Christ the penalty is an extra 200g -per tire-. Climbing now feels like I'm dragging brake, consistently ~5 minutes slower per 1k ft. The rolling resistance is palpable even when descending. I'm actually slower on anything but wet roots compared with Dissector/DHR.

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[Toddball]

That is a bummer. I just mounted up an Argotal and reached for the enduro build to get their soft compound (Bead hooked up just fine and no issues mounting at all). Pretty ok compound but Jesus Hercules Christ the penalty is an extra 200g -per tire-. Climbing now feels like I'm dragging brake, consistently ~5 minutes slower per 1k ft. The rolling resistance is palpable even when descending. I'm actually slower on anything but wet roots compared with Dissector/DHR.

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Which Maxxis casing and compound are you comparing to? Continental claims 2.4 Enduro Soft tires are around 1125g (both Argotal and Kryptotal Fr), and Maxxis 2.4WT MaxxGrip DHR II is 1056g in EXO and 1260g in DD. Is the Conti claimed weight way off?

I have a few hundred miles on a Kryptotal Fr/Xynotal combo (both 2.4" Enduro Soft) and I'm pretty pleased with them. Haven't tried the Argotal yet and probably won't as long as I live in the desert.

[Andeh]

Argotal tread is more akin to a Shorty 2 / High Roller 3, not a DHF/DHR/Dissector. No surprise it's slower rolling.

[Huskier]

Which Maxxis casing and compound are you comparing to? Continental claims 2.4 Enduro Soft tires are around 1125g (both Argotal and Kryptotal Fr), and Maxxis 2.4WT MaxxGrip DHR II is 1056g in EXO and 1260g in DD. Is the Conti claimed weight way off?

I have a few hundred miles on a Kryptotal Fr/Xynotal combo (both 2.4" Enduro Soft) and I'm pretty pleased with them. Haven't tried the Argotal yet and probably won't as long as I live in the desert.

Caveat that I realized I went 2.6 this go round, but I have 1295 on my fish scale. For comparison:

3C Maxterra Assegai 2.5 is 1165.
Kryptotal trail enduro 2.4 1090
3C Maxterra Dissector: 930 (!!!)

Going Krypto/dissector to Enduro Argotal/DHR-DD added a little over a 1lb of rotating mass

So...yeah, wish they would do their trail layup in the soft compound...

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[carlh]

Cross tire question, I sold my cross bike since I do like 1 race per year but now need tires for my computer/road/cross bike for said race. I can clear 40s and am 210lbs so bigger is better. Last cross tires I had were clement pdxs and something like that but wider would be great. Are the Ritchey megabites a good choice?

[jamal]

Yeah those ritcheys look like they'd be decent if you already have them. For most people there's no requirement to ride 33s so I recommend gravel tires with nice big edge knobs. Pirelli gravel rc, wtb raddler, maxxis ravager, etc.

For actual cross tires challenge is starting to make some in 38mm, like the grifo and limus. Their 40mm gravine is kind of like a more aggressive, bigger grifo that should be pretty good for cross too. I also think the traditional "grifo" pattern isn't a very good choice unless you're on tubulars and have mulitple tire options. The baby limus has been my favorite cross tire but the 38s aren't out yet.