going nordic = going ghay?

[frorider]

Bobz thx in advance for more thoughts on that new boot/binding system. I looked into it a year ago but the boot price was too high considering how infrequently I’d use it.

I have some Atomic Chugach skis / voile 3 pin w/ detachable heel spring cable that I use on the blizzard days from the house, but my 2 pairs of 3 pin boots (Rossi bcx6, Merrill ultras) are heavy and not inspiring. Open to ideas on lightish but good ankle support duckbill boots, or maybe going to the Xplore system. I can see the stride advantage but for making tele turns it seems like they rely on the driver to get that BoF flex going.

https://www.telemark-pyrenees.com/cr...y=US&var=89841
…seems like the best xplore boot for my application.

[frorider]

From telemarktalk discussion:

The hard/sole flex provides a feeling more like my experience with cable bindings. I think an Xplore binding with a mode switch and a solid block for the boot toe to rest and flex against in skiing mode is possible.

It’s ridiculous to expect users to swap in the firm bumper for each minigolf descent, but afaik rotte isn’t planing on a mode switching version like this ^ right?

[bobz]

With all this fresh snow finally, XC touring gear isn't exactly on deck at the moment, but I'll have more to say about skiing on them when I've put another day or two on them; may be a few weeks.

It’s ridiculous to expect users to swap in the firm bumper for each minigolf descent, but afaik rotte isn’t planing on a mode switching version like this ^ right?

The bumpers are easy to swap out, but yeah, I have no intention of changing out bumpers mid-tour. I think the point is more to allow different bumpers for different styles of tours. As I said, I found the pivot action (using the default middle flex bumper) not all that far from free-pivot; next time out I'll try the stiffer ones, and I won't be surprised if I end up preferring them for all-around use. The third option, the free-pivot non-bumper inserts, I can't imagine ever wanting to use; even on an extended steep skin-up, the basic bumpers have a very easy pivot, and it's actually nice to have a bit of pivot resistance when doing kick-turns.

Besides which, the bumpers aren't going to make a huge difference for turnability. Some, which is why I'm expecting to prefer the stiffer ones, but not huge. My little Tahoe Meadows tour mentioned a week or so ago was mostly flats (Chickadee Ridge was looking way too bony) but we did some low-angle turns. The boot-binding system works for that, with or without the greater pivot resistance. I wasn't feeling any torsional wash-out like I felt before when using these same skis with some softened-by-age Asolo Summits. With the light-duty (as BC gear goes) Xplore-compatible boots and appropriate skis for the binding system, those components are going to be what mainly keeps you from doing hard-dialed turns (or any half-elegant turns at all if the snow is unfavorable) on this gear.

One more thing to consider about these bindings versus other options: Lighter-duty duckbill boots have a terrible rep for problems with sole separation at the toe. Which is because the 3-pin system assigns nearly all of the task of enabling striding rotation to the boot sole near the toe; that generates a lot of dynamic stress on the front of the boot. The system bindings eliminate nearly all of that stress on boot's toe area. If you're looking at a boot like, say, the Alpina Alaska, and it's available in your choice of 3-pin versus Xplore, I can tell you it's incredibly tempting to go with 3-pin (I have nearly a dozen sets of 3-pin bindings sitting in a box), but Xplore is the what I went with (I got Alfas, not Alpinas) because I just don't trust duckbill on this class of boot.

[andy m]

I've been using Xplore for a couple of seasons, so I can add some onto bobz's comments.

For most of my tours with Xplore, I use just the standard bumper. However, I do find that the stiff bumper helps with turnability, enough so that I will probably switch out bumpers at the top of a long run with lots of turn opportunities -- but I would not switch bumpers for a few turns or for a long, mellower downhill.

IME, the stiff bumper is tolerable for short distances of flatter terrain or for short uphills, but I find it too restrictive to use for a longer tour.

I also find Xplore works very well for K&G, again with the standard bumper. Downhill control is also very good, considering the lightness of the boots and binding: Xplore boot soles are fairly stiff, and with the torsional rigidity of the boot, binding and the boot-binding connection, the system offers more control IMO than either NNN-BC or 3-pin (with a non-plastic boot and w/o a cable).

Some potential downsides: Obviously the cost of bindings and boots; I managed to find everything on sale. Also, there were numerous cases early on of the boot pins getting stuck inside the boot. This has apparently been resolved, but Rottefella came out with a boot-pin greasing system and recommendations after the problems first occurred. I had a boot pin get stuck once, but I was able to get it unstuck and it hasn't been a problem since.

Some people with lots of mileage on the system have run into issues with the sole wearing thin at the front of the boot near the boot pins, even partially exposing the boot-pin fitting within the sole. If you look at the boots, there isn't much room there even when they're new. The best advice here is not to use the boots for a lot of hiking to get to the snow, etc., as that may be the main culprit. Of course, this sort of thing could happen with NNN-BC boots too.

As for the binding, the only issue I've heard of is some people breaking off the white tab at the front (used to remove the boot from the binding).

[andy m]

I have some Atomic Chugach skis / voile 3 pin w/ detachable heel spring cable that I use on the blizzard days from the house, but my 2 pairs of 3 pin boots (Rossi bcx6, Merrill ultras) are heavy and not inspiring. Open to ideas on lightish but good ankle support duckbill boots, or maybe going to the Xplore system. I can see the stride advantage but for making tele turns it seems like they rely on the driver to get that BoF flex going.

https://www.telemark-pyrenees.com/cr...y=US&var=89841
…seems like the best xplore boot for my application.

I have the duckbill version of that Crispi boot, and I like them. However, they are not quite as good for the downhill as I hoped, mainly because neither the leather upper nor the sole are that stiff. The composite cuff with buckles certainly helps, but it doesn't quite make up for the softness of the rest of the boot.

I think the Xplore version will be a better boot for the downhill, mainly because the Xplore sole is much stiffer.

[romeo tango]

Attachment 482166

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nice photo!

the bases are waxless ....
I saw some Litex CS models for sale on Ebay and Etsy mentioning 1980's origin
I never would have guessed these skis were 40 years old!

in other news:
skiing at 49N was deep, dreamy and deserted

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[buttahflake]

First day out, the punishment was real. Lots of fast skiers out today in Woodstock VT. Easy to get carried away trying to chase. I blew up royally after going all in, up a rolling climb. Got to the bottom horfed up some nasty lung-butter, eyes watering, nose running. Felt good to blow the pipes out, ski’s and snow were fast until a wicked squall dumped an inch in like 25 minutes. Full on white-out on the flats.

[sb]

[romeo tango]

brutal temps riding chairs this weekend,
decided to keep it simple and dork the back 9 today

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[sb]

Sweet.

Got the GF out for some skill and confidence building at the local park away from the masses. It helped her a lot and good snow condition made for very enjoyable cruise.

[adrian.bee]

Bought some Karhu backcountry SNS skis today off FB marketplace, and the guy was nice enough to gift me some Alpina NNN BC boots... So now I need some BC skis!

Are you still able to find them out there secondhand? I will take a trip to play it again and the local gear consignment store but I don't think i've seen NNN BC skis in a LONG time.

[MarsB]

SNS and NNN BC are binding systems, not skis. Either can be mounted on XC skis. NNN BC are still very common bindings in the XC world. SNS are harder to find boots for. Go back a page for several good posts on this.

[bobz]

SNS is not only defunct (though phased out recently enough that used SNS boots shouldn't be hard to find), but inappropriate for backcountry XC gear. Unless it's SNS-BC, roughly equivalent to but non-compatible with NNN-BC; the SNS BC system was phased out at least a decade ago, so those you would have a hard time finding boots for (and be careful with ancient boots; my SNS-BC Greenlands were nice, but basically broken by the time I switched my XC touring skis to NNN-BC). NNN-BC is a current boot-binding system for XC touring.

[bodywhomper]

Fischer made some good sns-bc boots, too.

[Peruvian]

[Peruvian]

Ben finished in 6th on Friday. Amazing!

[Peruvian]

I think this has been shared but seriously it needs to be posted monthly.

[romeo tango]

Nils Larsen
Godfather of Hok

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[Cisco Kid]

[yeahman]

Got out yesterday on the golf course trails. First time all winter we've had enough snow for grooming.

[Harry]

If any of you are attending the Birkebeiner this year, I have a guest bedroom available. I’m an hour away. Herbal gifts appreciated.

https://www.birkie.com/ski/events/birkie/


The Birkie is still a month away, which is good, because we need snow.



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[Laps]

Heard a rumor it might be a 10k loop this year….dear god that sounds awful.

You think they’ll be able to open up the full trail?


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[VTskibum]

Other kind of xc ski today, first time in 2 years since we had such a bust of winter last year.


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[Peruvian]

[romeo tango]

... first time in 2 years since we had such a bust of winter last year....

how does that work?
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