Ask the experts

[skaredshtles]

<snip>
All Fox 36s don't creak

[Roxtar]

You may notice I avoided any references to Avid brakes and MRU skis.

[toast2266]

I don't think I've ever had a 36 creak, and I've owned pretty much every generation of that fork.

The 38, on the other hand...

[Eluder]

The interweb is a very misleading place to gauge quality. With every mountain biker in the world having access, every breakdown gets reported and this blows issues way out of proportion. You have to keep in mind that huge numbers of products are sold world-wide. A few will break. Most don't. Products that work rarely get press.

hearing from a whole bunch of people using something in a variety of ways seems like a pretty good way to get feedback to me.

I’ve had 3 of the new transfers. All suffered from slow and sticky rebound and got a free service within a couple of months. Whatever that means…

[XXX-er]

after 2 yrs/ 3600kms I had to rebuild the cartridge dropper post on my moped cuz it would go flacid

the cartrigde is 49$ and it took about 5min witha couple of allen wrenches

I'm sold on this idea

[Roxtar]

hearing from a whole bunch of people using something in a variety of ways seems like a pretty good way to get feedback to me.

Yes, except it tends to be a one sided issue.
Ex:
My shock/fork/shifter/bars/... are working fine. You'll never read about it.
My chain broke. I'll post it to the world how ****chains are junk.

[SchralphMacchio]

Yo Schralp my friend Kait Boyle says that the Shadowcat mullet is her favorite bike, and she's a Pivot team rider.

she's running it 27.5
She wanted a 27.5 as she wanted a nimbler pedally bike (already has a Yeti SB150 that she mulleted as a plow bike
Replaced a Mach 5.5 which she also really liked
Has the Shadowcat XT/XTR version running it stock
Bike weight is 29lbs but she doesnt care overmuch about weight.
Use-case; Fromme, Seymour, Whistler, Squamish "pedally" trails and has done some light shuttling trail use. Also hauled it around on more longer rides into alpine etc. Seems to have an alarmingly large range
Set up for more squish - ie sag 30% and definitely suspension tuned to downhill

Awesome, thanks! I like the idea of a lighter play oriented bike that’s fun to whip around on small airs, climbs like a goat, can handle all day adventure ride duty or local smaller flow systems, but maybe gives up some hyper damp absolute line tracking rowdiness to do that. Honestly it’s pretty much how my Gen 1 Bronson CC is set up, but this would be a more refined, modernized, and more capable version I expect.

I am mullet curious and would be able to mount up my 29” fork and wheel for a test … I bet a 140mm 29er would feel great. That said my one and only mullet test ride on a new Patrol MX showed as many downsides as benefits: the loose rear wheel would be fun on dry drifty trails but the poor traction was really terrible to have on wet slippery trails, I had to invert braking technique by doing heavy speed reduction with the front and only fine speed control on the rear due to the traction imbalance (where I’m used to the opposite), and when climbing switchbacks the bike wanted to wheelie and it required a lot more focus and technique to bring around on those or other uphill obstacles. I’m sure much of this was accentuated by specific geo and leverage of the Patrol, but I also bet some of this would still be noticeable on a Shadowcat mullet?

[Andeh]

If you want a mullet bike to handle like a full 29er (i.e. front and rear wheels to carve similar arc), it needs longer chainstays. My GG Megatrail mullet (430mm CS) felt really squirrelly and tended to square off corners. My Nomad 6 (440mm CS) feels much more balanced.
In terms of braking, I still think that the rear brake is more for steering. I mean, it slows you down, but the real power is in the front. I tend to pull both evenly, but blip the rear hard to force skids/drifts.

[jm2e]

X01. Roughly double the cost of GX but lasts 3-4 times as long before reaching 0.5% elongation. Pretty sure X01 and XX1 chains are the same minus fancy colours, and I personally wouldn’t pay the extra for XX1.

If you could bump that up every couple months it would be quite helpful. Way better than search function.

[Tailwind]

I broke a spoke on my we are one unions… I was going to swap myself but the shop told me they thought it would be better to use a tensionometer for the longevity of the wheel. Busy week at work, so I just paid the $30 to have someone else do it.

The wheel was true when I dropped it off (even with the broken spoke). After pickup I just reinstalled at home and there is a pretty large hop. Say 3mm.

I have not really had carbon wheels get out of true… did the shop fiddle spoke tension and mess up the overall true of the wheel? Thoughts on if I should be pissed?

[toast2266]

I broke a spoke on my we are one unions… I was going to swap myself but the shop told me they thought it would be better to use a tensionometer for the longevity of the wheel. Busy week at work, so I just paid the $30 to have someone else do it.

The wheel was true when I dropped it off (even with the broken spoke). After pickup I just reinstalled at home and there is a pretty large hop. Say 3mm.

I have not really had carbon wheels get out of true… did the shop fiddle spoke tension and mess up the overall true of the wheel? Thoughts on if I should be pissed?

No idea what they did, but they screwed something up. Take it back.

For future reference, if you're just replacing one spoke, you can just tension it by tone. Pluck it, and make it match the tone of the other spokes on that side of the wheel, then tweak it to make the wheel true. That'll get your tension as close as it needs to be.

[One (+) Sentence]

I broke a spoke on my we are one unions… I was going to swap myself but the shop told me they thought it would be better to use a tensionometer for the longevity of the wheel. Busy week at work, so I just paid the $30 to have someone else do it.

The wheel was true when I dropped it off (even with the broken spoke). After pickup I just reinstalled at home and there is a pretty large hop. Say 3mm.

I have not really had carbon wheels get out of true… did the shop fiddle spoke tension and mess up the overall true of the wheel? Thoughts on if I should be pissed?

Did they remove your tire to perform the repair? Is the tire fully seated or was the tire perhaps damaged in removal/reinstallation?

[Tailwind]

Yeah… I was annoyed. I paid them to do it because I’m doing some big rides this weekend and wasn’t sure I’d have time to get to it. I’ll bring it by today and hopefully they’re not defensive.

They did pull the tire but the main wobble is definitely in the rim itself. I was annoyed… they charged $7 for new sealant when the tire is definitely dead and I have a new one in the garage… and a jug of sealant. I get that it makes sense but I don’t love when shops push high margin items.

No idea what they did, but they screwed something up. Take it back.

For future reference, if you're just replacing one spoke, you can just tension it by tone. Pluck it, and make it match the tone of the other spokes on that side of the wheel, then tweak it to make the wheel true. That'll get your tension as close as it needs to be.

[grskier]

Yeah… I was annoyed. I paid them to do it because I’m doing some big rides this weekend and wasn’t sure I’d have time to get to it. I’ll bring it by today and hopefully they’re not defensive.

They did pull the tire but the main wobble is definitely in the rim itself. I was annoyed… they charged $7 for new sealant when the tire is definitely dead and I have a new one in the garage… and a jug of sealant. I get that it makes sense but I don’t love when shops push high margin items.

Tell them you'd like to return the sealant too.

[Tailwind]

Good call. That’ll make me seem reasonable.

Tell them you'd like to return the sealant too.

[Dee Hubbs]

The wheel was true when I dropped it off (even with the broken spoke). After pickup I just reinstalled at home and there is a pretty large hop. Say 3mm.
I have not really had carbon wheels get out of true… did the shop fiddle spoke tension and mess up the overall true of the wheel? Thoughts on if I should be pissed?

If it was spinning true while missing a spoke, it takes a lot of fuckery to pull a Carbon, 30mm ID, rim out of true with just one spoke.
If indeed it is the rim and not just the tire, it's fucked up.
As mentioned above, check the tire seat, or bead stretched bead, and if it is the rim then yes I'd go back to the shop and ask questions.
I've build a bunch of those WAOs. The max tension should be 115kgf on the high side (Rear drive = high, Front disc = high), and depending on the hub and flange height the non-high side should be quite a bit lower. (like 60%ish) sorry I don't know the percentage off the top of my head. WAO recommends the spokes be within 2% of each other, I strive for 5% balance.

IF its the rim out of true, I'd ask the shop:
What was your measured tension of the good drive side spokes?
What was your measured tension of the good non-drive side spokes?
What tension did the replace the spoke measure out at?
What tension did the neighbor spokes adjust to, and the opposing spokes adjust to after the the replacement?

If they can't answer this, or say these things aren't measured, or that they are not checking these values, it's the wrong shop.

I did one of these last weekend at home for a client. 1 broken spoke. Pulled the wheel off, removed the tire and rim tape, bounced out the old nipple.
Put the wheel in the truing stand, measured 5 spokes on the DS, 5 spokes on NDS, laced a new spoke and nipple, measured the new spoke, adjusted the new spoke to corresponding tension, spun the wheel and it was true. Pulled the wheel and de-tensioned the spoke windup on the floor by pressing the hub into the floor. Measured the 3 neighbor spokes and the 2 opposing spokes, and called it good. Taped the rim, put the tire on, added sealant, inflated it to 40psi to set the bead, and put it back in the stand to check the rim's true under pressure and to see the bead was straight. Mounted it back in the fork. 26 minutes, the longest process was shaking the old nipple out. It's not rocket science for a shop that owns $40 Park Tool tension gauge.

[Rossymcg]

I bought a Fox Transfer a couple of years back on the recommendation of my local shop. I’d had nothing but trouble with a RS Reverb, and a KS Lev before that, and I was told the Transfer had the least issues of any dropper they deal with. Based on a couple of years experience, mine gets a little stiction (sometimes needs a bum bounce to get full extension) towards the end of a long summer of riding, but that gets fixed with my winter service. Otherwise no issues. Given how much I use it (the lever is worn down to bare metal), and the horror stories I hear constantly from owners of other products, count me as a satisfied customer.

my experience with my fox dropper also.

Sent from my SM-G780G using TGR Forums mobile app

[SchralphMacchio]

For future reference, if you're just replacing one spoke, you can just tension it by tone. Pluck it, and make it match the tone of the other spokes on that side of the wheel, then tweak it to make the wheel true. That'll get your tension as close as it needs to be.

Dude, that’s an awesome nugget of gold!!! Will keep that in mind if I’m in the same boat!

[grskier]

Schralph is gonna be in the garage with one of those tone kazoo things trying to hit the high A#

[SchralphMacchio]

If you want a mullet bike to handle like a full 29er (i.e. front and rear wheels to carve similar arc), it needs longer chainstays. My GG Megatrail mullet (430mm CS) felt really squirrelly and tended to square off corners. My Nomad 6 (440mm CS) feels much more balanced.
In terms of braking, I still think that the rear brake is more for steering. I mean, it slows you down, but the real power is in the front. I tend to pull both evenly, but blip the rear hard to force skids/drifts.

Thanks, that’s really helpful to know that your Nomad 6 feels so much more balanced with 440mm CS, I presume on a medium frame? I had assumed as much about longer CS, but wasn’t sure how much relative difference in feel it would make. Medium Shadowcat is 430mm CS, 17mm BB drop, 340mm BB height, 460mm reach, 1206mm WB. Patrol MX in low is 436, 22/333, 450, 1233. Just shooting from the hip it seems unlikely that I would like a Shadowcat in mullet!

[Tailwind]

Got it. Thanks for the detailed reply. It is definitely the rim and prior to replacing it was true. The wobble is substantial and not just a little wiggle.

I’ll go talk to the shop later.

Are there chances they damaged the rim?

Thanks!

If it was spinning true while missing a spoke, it takes a lot of fuckery to pull a Carbon, 30mm ID, rim out of true with just one spoke.
If indeed it is the rim and not just the tire, it's fucked up.
As mentioned above, check the tire seat, or bead stretched bead, and if it is the rim then yes I'd go back to the shop and ask questions.
I've build a bunch of those WAOs. The max tension should be 115kgf on the high side (Rear drive = high, Front disc = high), and depending on the hub and flange height the non-high side should be quite a bit lower. (like 60%ish) sorry I don't know the percentage off the top of my head. WAO recommends the spokes be within 2% of each other, I strive for 5% balance.

IF its the rim out of true, I'd ask the shop:
What was your measured tension of the good drive side spokes?
What was your measured tension of the good non-drive side spokes?
What tension did the replace the spoke measure out at?
What tension did the neighbor spokes adjust to, and the opposing spokes adjust to after the the replacement?

If they can't answer this, or say these things aren't measured, or that they are not checking these values, it's the wrong shop.

I did one of these last weekend at home for a client. 1 broken spoke. Pulled the wheel off, removed the tire and rim tape, bounced out the old nipple.
Put the wheel in the truing stand, measured 5 spokes on the DS, 5 spokes on NDS, laced a new spoke and nipple, measured the new spoke, adjusted the new spoke to corresponding tension, spun the wheel and it was true. Pulled the wheel and de-tensioned the spoke windup on the floor by pressing the hub into the floor. Measured the 3 neighbor spokes and the 2 opposing spokes, and called it good. Taped the rim, put the tire on, added sealant, inflated it to 40psi to set the bead, and put it back in the stand to check the rim's true under pressure and to see the bead was straight. Mounted it back in the fork. 26 minutes, the longest process was shaking the old nipple out. It's not rocket science for a shop that owns $40 Park Tool tension gauge.

[toast2266]

Are there chances they damaged the rim?

Unlikely. If they damaged the rim enough to cause a wobble, you'd most likely be able to tell just by looking at it; it'd be cracked.

[Andeh]

Thanks, that’s really helpful to know that your Nomad 6 feels so much more balanced with 440mm CS, I presume on a medium frame? I had assumed as much about longer CS, but wasn’t sure how much relative difference in feel it would make. Medium Shadowcat is 430mm CS, 17mm BB drop, 340mm BB height, 460mm reach, 1206mm WB. Patrol MX in low is 436, 22/333, 450, 1233. Just shooting from the hip it seems unlikely that I would like a Shadowcat in mullet!

Yeah, I ride mediums.

Edit: I was also looking at the Patrol when I got my Nomad, and went with the Nomad in part due to the longer CS.

[XXX-er]

For future reference, if you're just replacing one spoke, you can just tension it by tone. Pluck it, and make it match the tone of the other spokes on that side of the wheel, then tweak it to make the wheel true. That'll get your tension as close as it needs to be.

yeah this is what I do^^ hit the spokes with a wrench or something that makes a tone,

if you do it while rotating the wheel you can do a quick n dirty check of the entire wheel in 30 sec

[SchralphMacchio]

Yeah, I ride mediums.

Edit: I was also looking at the Patrol when I got my Nomad, and went with the Nomad in part due to the longer CS.

Quick look at 5010 MX geo shows it’s not too much different than the Patrol MX, just a slightly shorter wheelbase and therefore front center, so maybe the 436 CS might feel slightly more balanced on the 5010 than Patrol? Wonder if it’s worth a demo or if I’m just unlikely to be satisfied based on my Patrol results.

Again I feel like if I lived in Bend and did a lot of loose sandy riding, the Patrol MX (and probably 5010) would be so surfy and rad, but here on the clay rich wet side of the Cascades, where rear wheel slides don’t catch and fall in line quite as quickly or easily, such a loosey goosey rear starts to feel more taxing than fun. My 29 hardtail is still my primary winter bike but we get a decent amount of rain in May, June and September October before it’s full on winter bike conditions.