50 years to the day

[frorider]

Thanks.

In your defense, the screen shot you posted made it very obvious the interviewer was showing how the Hamas representative was full of shit. No paywalled article access needed.

Maybe this thread needs a warning…reading comprehension test incoming.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Well, our spec ops are ready to go in, American hostages, that’s pretty fucking ballsy shit on Biden part, and I think it’s the right call. May have some broader repercussions , but fuck them, let them out themselves once and for all.

I hate to see innocent hurt, on either side, but until we know the fate of our citizens, don’t fucking care right now.

Yes, sending SOCOM troops to rescue US citizens in hostile Islamic countries has always worked out well


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[californiagrown]

Netanyahu publicly ordered a siege of Gaza, and ordered that power, water and supply lines (food) be cut off. That is pretty much a text book war crime according to the ICC. He ordered civilians to leave Gaza, but if the borders were closed, how can they do that?

How is a civilian defined- are you a civilian if you support and protect hamas but dont shoot a gun? thats pretty much the job of >50% of our military personel... logistics and support. And they would be considered valid military targets. this is just an impossible situation. Ugh.

[PNWbrit]

Yeah, quite often reputable news organizations are reporting news originating from Twitter.

I find the reputable news organizations to be a good filter of this. Yes they sometimes report news originating from Twitter. Very, very rarely inaccurate news from Twitter and usually not the extreme snuff movie stuff.

IMO these kind of massive world events are where the mainstream media are at their best.

[Timberridge]

He ordered civilians to leave Gaza, but if the borders were closed, how can they do that?

Perhaps they can hitch a ride on one of the Iranian supplied Fateh rockets?

[J. Barron DeJong]

This is 100% political. Hammas' attack has zero chance of tactical success. Its pretty much suicidal and it's going to end with Gaza in rubble. This is a last ditch attempt to force the hand of the Sunni nations. In this regard, it has already failed miserably.

Hammas is run by fools. If the Saudis were willing to write off the Palestinian cause last week, they are all the more likely to do so now.
Atrocities tend to destroy sympathy for one's cause.

Bottom line: the Palestinians are bad for business and MBS has ambitions and is tired of supporting his grandfather's war.

My point is that pretty much any sort of globally newsworthy event, short of maybe something like a natural disaster, has politics involved. If that means it’s polyass, then that means global events don’t get discussed.

The Ukraine war is certainly political, and there were some arguments the tread should be moved to polyass, but it has remained in the padded room.

[LongShortLong]

I find the reputable news organizations to be a good filter of this. Yes they sometimes report news originating from Twitter. Very, very rarely inaccurate news from Twitter and usually not the extreme snuff movie stuff.

IMO these kind of massive world events are where the mainstream media are at their best.

The reverse is not true. News from "reputable sources" on Twitter may be entirely false. It's easy to create a tweet saying the BBC said something they never said.

Be very careful with conflict news. Information operations are a key part of conflict.

[LongShortLong]

Bernie:

Attachment 472415

https://x.com/sensanders/status/1712...sR_NcRK2VkCfkg

Fake or not, I stand with this statement.

[rod9301]

Yep

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[PNWbrit]

It's easy to create a tweet saying the BBC said something they never said.

The problem is easily fixed by not looking at Twitter.

...

[MultiVerse]

Netanyahu publicly ordered a siege of Gaza, and ordered that power, water and supply lines (food) be cut off. That is pretty much a text book war crime according to the ICC. He ordered civilians to leave Gaza, but if the borders were closed, how can they do that?

We are watching a humanitarian catastrophe unfold in real time. Israel should stop the siege of water, food, & gas and protect displaced Palestinians.

To answer your question and in no way condone what's happening, the use of starvation and cutting off drinking water as a weapon of war is a war crime. Cutting off electricity during a siege is not a war crime. The US is trying to convince Egypt and Israel to create safe corridors for Gaza civilians. Israel is pre-announcing where it intends to strike and telling civilians to evacuate. Gaza is not a continuous urban area. Gazans can leave combat areas before attacks.




Hamas is a genocidal terrorist organization. Just as Israel should protect innocent civilians, Hamas should do the same by releasing all its hostages immediately and surrender unconditionally. Instead Hamas is telling civilians to remain in place as human shields. And instead of investing in infrastructure and resources like gas, food, and water Hamas invested in weapons. The fact that Israel provides food, gas, and water along with work permits while Hamas fails to provide these essentials should not go unnoticed (Israelis recognized some of the Hamas attackers as people who routinely travel and work in Israel).

[ktoor]

We are watching a humanitarian catastrophe unfold in real time. Israel should stop the siege of water, food, and gas and protect displaced Palestinians.

To answer your question and in no way condone what's happening, the use of starvation and cutting off drinking water as a weapon of war is a war crime. Cutting off electricity during a siege is not a war crime. The US is trying to convince Egypt and Israel to create safe corridors for Gaza civilians.Israel is pre-announcing where it intends to strike and telling civilians to evacuate. Gaza is not a continuous urban area. Gazans can leave combat areas before attacks.




Hamas is a genocidal terrorist organization. Just Israel should protect innocent civilians, Hamas should releases all its hostages immediately and surrender unconditionally. Instead of investing in infrastructure and resources like gas, food, and water Hamas invested in weapons. The fact that Israel provides food, gas, and water along with work permits while Hamas fails to provide these essentials should not go unnoticed (Israelis recognized some of the Hamas attackers as people who routinely travel and work in Israel).

i agree with the first sentiments above but with regards to "isreal provides food, gas, water along with work permits", lets not forget the settler-colonial aspect as recognized by united nations experts and the human rights watch declaration of this as an apartheid state.

with regards to the reporting, we live in a different age than the world of the 1980s but there are still important lessons to be learned with how powerful institutions use reporting to create a narrative (e.g. manufacturing consent). twitter may complicate these things but while were seeing video and reporting of horrific events happening to isrealis, on the other side palestinian journalists have been killed and access to the internet may influence how this is reported in the short-term.


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[J. Barron DeJong]

We are watching a humanitarian catastrophe unfold in real time. Israel should stop the siege of water, food, & gas and protect displaced Palestinians.

To answer your question and in no way condone what's happening, the use of starvation and cutting off drinking water as a weapon of war is a war crime. Cutting off electricity during a siege is not a war crime. The US is trying to convince Egypt and Israel to create safe corridors for Gaza civilians. Israel is pre-announcing where it intends to strike and telling civilians to evacuate. Gaza is not a continuous urban area. Gazans can leave combat areas before attacks.




Hamas is a genocidal terrorist organization. Just as Israel should protect innocent civilians Hamas should do the same by releasing all its hostages immediately and surrender unconditionally. Instead Hamas is telling civilians to remain in place as human shields. And instead of investing in infrastructure and resources like gas, food, and water Hamas invested in weapons. The fact that Israel provides food, gas, and water along with work permits while Hamas fails to provide these essentials should not go unnoticed (Israelis recognized some of the Hamas attackers as people who routinely travel and work in Israel).

Source that some of the attackers travel and work in Israel?

Maybe I need to go back and refresh my memory, but I thought all the attacks originated from Gaza, and I don’t believe residents of Gaza are able to get permits to work or travel into Israel.

Regarding cutting off food, water, etc. I saw a comment (don’t recall where) that Hamas would have known this was coming and would have prepared for it. It will be the civilians that are harmed.

[californiagrown]

We are watching a humanitarian catastrophe unfold in real time. Israel should stop the siege of water, food, & gas and protect displaced Palestinians.

To answer your question and in no way condone what's happening, the use of starvation and cutting off drinking water as a weapon of war is a war crime. Cutting off electricity during a siege is not a war crime. The US is trying to convince Egypt and Israel to create safe corridors for Gaza civilians. Israel is pre-announcing where it intends to strike and telling civilians to evacuate. Gaza is not a continuous urban area. Gazans can leave combat areas before attacks.




Hamas is a genocidal terrorist organization. Just as Israel should protect innocent civilians, Hamas should do the same by releasing all its hostages immediately and surrender unconditionally. Instead Hamas is telling civilians to remain in place as human shields. And instead of investing in infrastructure and resources like gas, food, and water Hamas invested in weapons. The fact that Israel provides food, gas, and water along with work permits while Hamas fails to provide these essentials should not go unnoticed (Israelis recognized some of the Hamas attackers as people who routinely travel and work in Israel).

Yeah, i guess my question is how realistic is it for civilians to leave through the Egyptian border? Like if you life depended on it and you were more than happy to leave NOW with just the clothes on your back, would you make it through? Or is egypt closing their border, and/or hamas actively preventing civilians from leaving? I havent heard anything about that and what is going on for your average palestinian in Gaza... ive just heard about the air strikes.

[garyfromterrace]

"I simply don’t know what the answer is. What I do know is that any ideology that is not bounded by a recognition of universal humanity is too dangerous to be let loose upon the world.“

Quoted for truth IMHO.

[MultiVerse]

i agree with the first sentiments above but with regards to "isreal provides food, gas, water along with work permits", lets not forget the settler-colonial aspect as recognized by united nations experts and the human rights watch declaration of this as an apartheid state.

A note on the indigenous decolonization argument. Documented genealogical, historical and archaeological evidence shows Jews are an ethnic group who come from Israel. If the argument Israel as a "a colonial state" justifies murder, that's something which ignores you can't colonize the land your ancestors are from.

The fact is we're all settlers of some sort so we need to make a distinction between settlements encroaching on modern agreed upon borders and 'settlers' as a broad category unto itself.

[MontuckyFried]

Instead Hamas is telling civilians to remain in place as human shields.

And THIS is precisely the tactic too many fail to grasp. They do this to play up sympathies from the morons in the West.

Hamas sets up HQ below a hospital. Shoots a missile into Israel. Retaliatory strike happens. (after being fully warned to evacuate the building)
The news media: "Israel bombs Palestinian hospital!"

Hamas leaders set up shop in an apartment building full of tenants. Shoots missile into Israel. Retaliatory strike happens.
The news media: "Israel bombs aparment building! 50 innocent civilians killed!"

It truly sucks for the innocents caught in the cross-fire, BUT when an enemy chooses to hide behind civilians as a tactic, then it is NOT the fault of the force retaliating. Terrorists are like bullies who hit run up and punch a kid on the playground then run right behind their teacher yelling "HE'S TRYING TO HIT ME! WAAAAAAHHHHHH!" while smiling and sticking their tongue out at the real victim. They're the real life Eric Cartman.

[MontuckyFried]

Maybe I need to go back and refresh my memory, but I thought all the attacks originated from Gaza, and I don’t believe residents of Gaza are able to get permits to work or travel into Israel.

Israel has allowed work permits for about 20,000 workers as of 2022.
See: https://www.gov.il/he/departments/policies/dec1328_2022

[J. Barron DeJong]

My opinion is that this is a bad argument to make:



Especially coming from someone living in America.

And even it were true, it doesn’t aid in ending the conflict at all. It’s an excuse for it to go on indefinitely, or until Israel is no more.

[J. Barron DeJong]

Israel has allowed work permits for about 20,000 workers as of 2022.
See: https://www.gov.il/he/departments/policies/dec1328_2022

Translation? My phone browser isn’t offering t o translate it, and no English version of that page.

I know there are many Palestinians who are able to work in Israel, but I thought they were exclusively from the West Bank, none from Gaza.

edit:

I stand corrected:

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/i...ermits-revoked

[Timberridge]

They're the real life Eric Carman.

[boltonoutlaw]

Yeah, i guess my question is how realistic is it for civilians to leave through the Egyptian border? Like if you life depended on it and you were more than happy to leave NOW with just the clothes on your back, would you make it through? Or is egypt closing their border, and/or hamas actively preventing civilians from leaving? I havent heard anything about that and what is going on for your average palestinian in Gaza... ive just heard about the air strikes.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle...ls-2023-10-10/

[rideit]

I doubt any Palestinians are crossing the border for any reason for the foreseeable future.

[boltonoutlaw]

Today:

Egypt discusses Gaza aid, rejects corridors for civilians, say sources

[MultiVerse]

Source that some of the attackers travel and work in Israel?

Maybe I need to go back and refresh my memory, but I thought all the attacks originated from Gaza, and I don’t believe residents of Gaza are able to get permits to work or travel into Israel.
.

Yeah, i guess my question is how realistic is it for civilians to leave through the Egyptian border? Like if you life depended on it and you were more than happy to leave NOW with just the clothes on your back, would you make it through? Or is egypt closing their border, and/or hamas actively preventing civilians from leaving? I havent heard anything about that and what is going on for your average palestinian in Gaza... ive just heard about the air strikes.

- Israel’s government had a policy of containment against Hamas, using a mix of economic incentives and military force. The economic incentives included the essential services mentioned above along with work permits. Israeli authorities issued thousands of work permits that allowed Gazans to find jobs in Israel.

- The source that some of the attackers travel and work in Israel comes kibbutzim survivor accounts.

- The border with Egypt is currently closed. The US is working to open it for refugees.

- Hamas And Palestinian Islamic Jihad Gazan residents: Do Not Evacuate From Areas About To Be Targeted In Airstrike




Audio here: https://twitter.com/MEMRIReports/sta...29004230017253