50 years to the day

[J. Barron DeJong]

I second that motion. We do ourselves a disservice by moving anything political out of mainstream discussion areas.

Global events almost always have some political component.

I’d like it to stay here, but mods should feel free to warn if they feel the Polyass line is being crossed.

[J. Barron DeJong]

Not gunna lie man, your posts are normally on point but your angle in this thread has been straight up weird.

Sure, we're supposed to believe what a leader of Hamas says in an interview. Sure, he had no clue what was going on. Ok.

Maybe people are projecting, or reading into things. Or maybe I just need to be more explicit.

I think I’ve been pretty clear that Hamas is a terrorist organization, they shouldn’t be trusted, and they will never be a suitable partner for peace talks.

When he won’t admit that they killed civilians, or that he knew about the plan, I believe that’s 100% bullshit. The article is a condemnation of him.

[summit]

No doubt a stupid time to be doing that.

It’s newsworthy when a Jerusalem reporter says the place may be about to explode.

The real question is who do you think gave those kids some fireworks and encouraged them to go shoot them at the soldiers? What was their intent? It is almost like their goal was to to intentionally escalate.

It is clear the terrorists sent those kids to die. It is sick and horrible. It's like suicide by cop except someone else got them to do it with the goal to cause more death!

This isn't surprising as they have done similar before. They start indoctrination to be martyrs in elementary school. It is a sick and doomed culture.

[J. Barron DeJong]

Bernie:



https://x.com/sensanders/status/1712...sR_NcRK2VkCfkg

[MontuckyFried]

Not gunna lie man, your posts are normally on point but your angle in this thread has been straight up weird.

Sure, we're supposed to believe what a leader of Hamas says in an interview. Sure, he had no clue what was going on. Ok.

Seriously. This clip of Ismail Haniyeh (Hamas leader) pointing at the news report on the TV and celebrating the attack is kind of proof that he DOES know what's going on. One thing Hamas and Isis have always been proficient at is playing the bleeding hearts like a fiddle. Some among here are proof enough of that.



Me: "Hamas is running around raping and pillaging"
Them: "WeLL wE doN'T REaLLy kNoW ThaT foR SurE! ThaT laDy prollY crapPd heR Pantz lol"
"HamAs leadErS diDn'T EveN knoW."

The willful blindness is astounding. Are people seriously that easily duped by these barbarians? Seeing some of the reactions, or the extreme tolerance of others, makes me realize how Hitler made so much advancement in the 30's. I had always wondered how the people who stood by quietly could be like that back then. Now we know. Apparently we've learned nothing.

[summit]

They can't admit to the obvious because fellow bleeding hearts might accuse them of not being progressive. The underdog must be given the benefit of the doubt until they shoot you in the face.

[J. Barron DeJong]

Seriously. This clip of Ismail Haniyeh (Hamas leader) pointing at the news report on the TV and celebrating the attack is kind of proof that he DOES know what's going on. One thing Hamas and Isis have always been proficient at is playing the bleeding hearts like a fiddle. Some among here are proof enough of that.



Me: "Hamas is running around raping and pillaging"
Them: "WeLL wE doN'T REaLLy kNoW ThaT foR SurE! ThaT laDy prollY crapPd heR Pantz lol"
"HamAs leadErS diDn'T EveN knoW."

The willful blindness is astounding. Are people seriously that easily duped by these barbarians? Seeing some of the reactions, or the extreme tolerance of others, makes me realize how Hitler made so much advancement in the 30's. I had always wondered how the people who stood by quietly could be like that back then. Now we know. Apparently we've learned nothing.

The article I shared agrees with you!

[MontuckyFried]

The article I shared agrees with you!

Sorry. It was hard to tell from the screenshot you posted and the article you shared is behind a paywall. Needed more context. I may have you confused some of your posts with Long Short Long, rhyming and all. You also keep posting tweets and what not without your own take which makes it tough for us to discern what YOUR views are. My apologies if I misconstrued. I'm a bit heated right now is all.

[J. Barron DeJong]

They can't admit to the obvious because fellow bleeding hearts might accuse them of not being progressive. The underdog must be given the benefit of the doubt until they shoot you in the face.

I’m sharing the viewpoint of the former head of the Israeli intelligence agency. Those of a reporter much of whose online presence is highlighting anti-Semitic hate crimes.

These people are not bleeding hearts. These are people who can differentiate between Hamas and Palestinians. Their viewpoints are ones I share, which is what I’ve been trying to give a voice to here.

[east or bust]

Maybe people are projecting, or reading into things. Or maybe I just need to be more explicit.

I think I’ve been pretty clear that Hamas is a terrorist organization, they shouldn’t be trusted, and they will never be a suitable partner for peace talks.

When he won’t admit that they killed civilians, or that he knew about the plan, I believe that’s 100% bullshit. The article is a condemnation of him.

Sorry. It was hard to tell from the screenshot you posted and the article you shared is behind a paywall. Needed more context.

Same boat here. Apologies JBD

[J. Barron DeJong]

Same boat here. Apologies JBD

Thanks.

[MontuckyFried]

Those of a reporter much of whose online presence is highlighting anti-Semitic hate crimes.

Ohhh. So THAT'S why I was confused about seeing screenshots of those views. Now we have the context. Seeing those quotes in isolation made it look like it could've been your POV. Thanks for clarifying, and my apologies.

[ex-powderbroker]

Hey everyone-

i’m here to eat some crow. the video of kids in cages was not from hamas. i didn’t share it here but did send it to people. it’s an emotionally charged time and because of that maybe be extra
careful or don’t bother passing on the horrible things we see.

and especially, if you see someone describing a whole group of people in inhumane terms or blaming them for the actions of a few or even a majority, it is still not all of them.

so on reflection, i felt like an apology for my part was necessary and maybe an admonishment of Gravity Lover too for crossing the line.

the innocent people who will suffer because of this war deserve at least that much.

sorry for the blog.

[MultiVerse]

A lot of the problem lies with Twitter/X promoting so many disinfo accounts. The kids in cages was promoted along with:

- A Guatemalan girl who was burned alive in 2015 as a recent Israeli victim
- White phosphorous ordinance dropped by Russians on Ukrainian civilians as Israeli strikes
- Some of the building bombing collapse videos are Russian strikes in Syria
- The “Bombing” of Saint Porphyrius Church in Gaza was fake
- Recycled Conflict Footage
- Recycled Non-Conflict Footage

Also worth noting: "IDF Homefront Command has announced that the “Aircraft Penetration Alerts” over Northern Israel was caused by a cyber attack and that there were No Drones or Paragliders in the Sky over the Country."

Man, a real 99 Luftballons moment...

[Toadman]

Oh, bless your little bleeding heart. You REALLY don't understand the enemy here, do you? There is no negotiating with Hamas any more. They've tried that... multiple times. Hamas and many a Jihadi have quite literally said repeatedly they won't be happy until not just the utter destruction of Israel occurs, BUT the complete eradication of every Jew worldwide.

These assholes are quite openly genocidal. They're not hiding it. They're downright screaming it at the top of their lungs. Their attitudes exceed even the ideals laid out in Mein Kampf.

Just replace "Terminator" with Hamas -

https://www.google.com/search?q=term...0rP2VWLWw,st:0

[J. Barron DeJong]

Ohhh. So THAT'S why I was confused about seeing screenshots of those views. Now we have the context. Seeing those quotes in isolation made it look like it could've been your POV. Thanks for clarifying, and my apologies.

The reporter I’m talking about here is Yair Rosenberg. Posted some of his tweets yesterday.

Regarding the Financial Times article I just posted, I thought it was evident from the tweet what the context was, but I guess not. I’ll try and be more explicit moving forward.

[TBS]

The real question is who do you think gave those kids some fireworks and encouraged them to go shoot them at the soldiers? What was their intent? It is almost like their goal was to to intentionally escalate.

It is clear the terrorists sent those kids to die. It is sick and horrible. It's like suicide by cop except someone else got them to do it with the goal to cause more death!

This isn't surprising as they have done similar before. They start indoctrination to be martyrs in elementary school. It is a sick and doomed culture.

Thomas Friedman provides a plausible answer

I believe one reason Hamas not only launched this assault now — but also seemingly ordered it to be as murderous as possible — was to trigger an Israeli overreaction, like an invasion of the Gaza Strip, that would lead to massive Palestinian civilian casualties and in that way force Saudi Arabia to back away from the U.S.-brokered deal now in discussion to promote normalization between Riyadh and the Jewish state. As well as to force the United Arab Emirates, Bahrain and Morocco, which were part of the Abraham Accords produced by the Trump administration, to take a step back from Israel.

What Israel’s worst enemies — Hamas and Iran — want is for Israel to invade Gaza and get enmeshed in a strategic overreach there that would make America’s entanglement in Falluja look like a children’s birthday party. We are talking house-to-house fighting that would undermine whatever sympathy Israel has garnered on the world stage, deflect world attention from the murderous regime in Tehran and force Israel to stretch its forces to permanently occupy Gaza and the West Bank.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/10/o...smid=url-share
Paywall removed

[Cono Este]

Well, our spec ops are ready to go in, American hostages, that’s pretty fucking ballsy shit on Biden part, and I think it’s the right call. May have some broader repercussions , but fuck them, let them out themselves once and for all.

I hate to see innocent hurt, on either side, but until we know the fate of our citizens, don’t fucking care right now.

[PNWbrit]

A lot of the problem lies with Twitter/X promoting so many disinfo accounts.

The problem is easily fixed by not looking at Twitter.

[J. Barron DeJong]

The problem is easily fixed by not looking at Twitter.

Spending 0% of your Twitter time in the ‘For you’ feed also works.

[MultiVerse]

Yeah, quite often reputable news organizations are reporting news originating from Twitter. There are plenty of reliable sources on Twitter. For better or worse Twitter is the world's social feed. The bigger problem is with the algorithmically promoted "What's happening" or "For You" feeds.

[ex-powderbroker]

Any bad actor only has to get an item into one trusted feed and the damage is done.

[heckacali]

Our rabid consumption of the horrors of war as a real time media feed (TV or online) is somewhat disturbing in general.

[J. Barron DeJong]

Jonathan Chait voices the argument better than I’d ever be able to.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2023...oth-sides.html

More in the article, but the final two paragraphs:

”Again, I have no interest in joining the game of measuring which evil is greater. Do you want to believe the position of Shapiro and Baker is less evil than that of the left because Israel’s response is retaliatory and has not yet taken shape? Go ahead. Do you want to believe it is a greater evil because it represents a mainstream faction within American politics and Hamas apologism remains factionalized on the far left? That is also fine. I personally consider defenses of terrorism more barbaric than cold indifference about collateral damage, but I can accept opposing beliefs about which evil is the greater evil. I insist only that they are both evil.

Whatever calculation you make must begin with the premise that the deaths of innocent people are evil. I simply don’t know what the answer is. What I do know is that any ideology that is not bounded by a recognition of universal humanity is too dangerous to be let loose upon the world.“

[neckdeep]

Global events almost always have some political component.

This is 100% political. Hammas' attack has zero chance of tactical success. Its pretty much suicidal and it's going to end with Gaza in rubble. This is a last ditch attempt to force the hand of the Sunni nations. In this regard, it has already failed miserably.

Hammas is run by fools. If the Saudis were willing to write off the Palestinian cause last week, they are all the more likely to do so now.
Atrocities tend to destroy sympathy for one's cause.

Bottom line: the Palestinians are bad for business and MBS has ambitions and is tired off supporting his grandfather's war.