The 300g Touring Binding Thread

[Lord Thomas]

3x. While I'm on the soap box would be really outstanding if you could get 2 risers! That would be over the top awesome.

[kamtron]

Liking my new alpinists. The heel pressure is so smooth and it has none of the loose feeling you get with dynafits. One gripe is I'm not sure of durability of the plastic construction--literally first tour, my edge took a chunk out of the plastic on one toepiece that's near the metal toe wing. So far it just appears to be a cosmetic ding.

I also haven't fully gotten used to the zero ramp yet after years of skiing Dynafits. It feels like my skis want to get away from me sometimes. They are more "demanding" of boot input. I will try experimenting will heel lifts or spoilers to see if that helps.

[frorider]

Alpinists are like the Tacoma of bindings, except they sell a billion of ‘em in Europe but not quite as many in the US. The design hasn’t changed other than a larger flange over the toe springs. Despite the huge numbers out there the failure reports are very rare. Both Blister and Outdoor Gear Lab concluded after testing on refrozen or chunky crap that they ski better and with a more damp, elastic feeling than all the others in this general weight category.

But the Tacoma’s seating position sucks for tall guys, and the Alpinist has a heel riser that reflects a Euro / skimo mentality. Our redesigned heel lever will provide two useful positions—a moderately tall position when pins are fwd, and a tall position when rotated. The actual mm heights are being fine tuned with our prototypes. And we are positioning the hole in the lever to enable easier insertion and rotation with any pole, particularly poles with a wide tip.

I’ll list the reasons I’ve concluded this is the best binding in this category in another thread w/ details on our proto results, but let’s not overlook the fact that they cost $200-$250 per pair depending on where you order them from in Europe. Sort of the cherry on top. If you and your SO are into bc skiing, and you have the minimum quiver (3 pairs each), that saves you $1500 vs the other good options.

[Marshal Olson]

@frorider- was going to ask about the Alpinist, especially as it compares to the Amer MTN. Got a pair of alpinist on a used set of skis and have been very impressed with em. Especially liking the low pin delta and zero heel gap, and that they match the delta of the mix/match skimo bindings I normally use (for less than 1/2 the cost, new)

also, to add for the new TRD Tacoma crowd In This thread, Moment’s Voyager binding is by far and away (imo) the best binding in a pure sense. Everything on that thing is so dialed, and they are <50g heavier than an Alpinist.

[fleaches]

Thanks to this thread I finally figured out (I think, for now) my ultimate do-it-all binding combo: Trab toe, ATK Haute route heel, homemade freeride spacer. Skied it Saturday on the big skis in a variety of snow conditions and was really impressed. Two spacer heights, elastic travel in the heel, Trab toes feel so good, and all sub 180g. I am not a precise or smooth skier at all, and I hit a reasonably big air, into a pretty crappy landing, late in the day when my legs were fried, and came away so impressed at how the bindings felt.

So basically... If anybody wants to buy a pair of Trab Titan Vario 2 heels with one day on them, let me know! They're sick, but I don't need them haha.

Do you have more time on this binding combo? How's it been working out? As someone who likes the trab toes and the HR style heel this seems amazing as long as it's not prone to releases.

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[frorider]

@marshal — it’s been hard to find the Voyager in stock whenever I checked occasionally but it seems like a sick binding.

[funkendrenchman]

What’s the deal with the free ride spacer on the MTN. What do I need to know or check for?

[CaliBrit]

@marshal — it’s been hard to find the Voyager in stock whenever I checked occasionally but it seems like a sick binding.

Just buy the real deal ATK.

[ezgzy]

@frorider- was going to ask about the Alpinist, especially as it compares to the Amer MTN. Got a pair of alpinist on a used set of skis and have been very impressed with em. Especially liking the low pin delta and zero heel gap, and that they match the delta of the mix/match skimo bindings I normally use (for less than 1/2 the cost, new)

also, to add for the new TRD Tacoma crowd In This thread, Moment’s Voyager binding is by far and away (imo) the best binding in a pure sense. Everything on that thing is so dialed, and they are <50g heavier than an Alpinist.

Do you think the atk is worth the extra $ over the alpinist? Skied the alpinist but never the raider. I liked them a lot but thought the risers were annoying, no real complaints other than that


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[plugboots]

Just buy the real deal ATK.

Exactly

[CaliBrit]

Do you think the atk is worth the extra $ over the alpinist? Skied the alpinist but never the raider. I liked them a lot but thought the risers were annoying, no real complaints other than that


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Honestly if you like the flat delta of the alpinist and can deal with the annoying riser situation and don’t want brakes then I’d add an atk freeride spacer to the alpinist and call it good. Just make sure you get the lower one I think it’s al05 to fit the low alpinist stack height.

[frorider]

Just buy the real deal ATK.

Last I checked, atk didn’t offer this version. I hate high ramp angles and I was stoked Moment addressed that w/o a toe shim kluge.

[Beder]

Last I checked, atk didn’t offer this version. I hate high ramp angles and I was stoked Moment addressed that w/o a toe shim kluge.

I own both FR14 and Moment V12. They ski the same as long as you use the $40, 4mm, toe shim.
Moment shows plenty in stock at $700. I picked some up l last spring at about $550. Moment also uses the 95mm wide spacer, which is fine unless you were going to mount on a narrower ski. ATK FR's come with a narrower spacer.



edit to add...I. have skied that Voyager on another ski inbounds very hard. I have confidence in it. 6-1, 185 lbs

[Marshal Olson]

Do you think the atk is worth the extra $ over the alpinist? Skied the alpinist but never the raider. I liked them a lot but thought the risers were annoying, no real complaints other than that

I mean, the Alpinist is ~$225 on snowcountry. it’s hard to get something comparable for twice that price.

I have no complaints with the riser, flip it down to walk up the hill. Flip it up using the grip end of your pole at the top. The end.

id say it all comes down to weight. 200g skimo bindings on a plate, 300g mtn/alpinist, 350g ATK/et al.

edit to add- it looks like skimo is selling B&D shims for freeraider toes. Great to know! Those didn’t exist when I had freeraiders a few years ago! Nice call out beder.

[fleaches]

Not sure if these have the new, less breakable toe levers or not but this might be the cheapest tech binding I've ever seen https://www.evo.com/outlet/alpine-to...tschi-xenic-10

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[CaliBrit]

I mean, the Alpinist is ~$225 on snowcountry. it’s hard to get something comparable for twice that price.

I have no complaints with the riser, flip it down to walk up the hill. Flip it up using the grip end of your pole at the top. The end.

id say it all comes down to weight. 200g skimo bindings on a plate, 300g mtn/alpinist, 350g ATK/et al.

edit to add- it looks like skimo is selling B&D shims for freeraider toes. Great to know! Those didn’t exist when I had freeraiders a few years ago! Nice call out beder.

Atk Kuluar worth a look. 200g and a pretty full feature set. Superior to alpinist and about $280

Think the shim comes with the FR16.

[kamtron]

For those getting used to flat ramp angle on alpinists: adding some spoilers to my boots to up the forward lean had them feeling much more comfortable to me on a tour yesterday

[CaliBrit]

For those getting used to flat ramp angle on alpinists: adding some spoilers to my boots to up the forward lean had them feeling much more comfortable to me on a tour yesterday

Yeah or just buy a 17 degree hawx

[kamtron]

Maybe for my next boot!

[Marshal Olson]

Atk Kuluar worth a look. 200g and a pretty full feature set. Superior to alpinist and about $280

Think the shim comes with the FR16.

Just to make sure I have it right:

ATK Trofeo = fixed heel u spring skimo setup & 0mm delta stock (5.5mm delta with adjust plate and no toe shim)
ATK Haute Route = Lighter/lower dual-pivot heels and skimo toe & 6.5mm delta stock
ATK Kuluar/Candy = U spring with forward pressure on a heel track and skimo toe & 11.5mm delta stock
ATK Crest = Heavier/higher dual pivot heels with skimo toe & 11mm delta stock
ATK Freeraider = Heavier/higher dual pivot heels with higher/wider mount toe & 10-11.5mm delta stock
Moment Voyager = Heavier/higher dual pivot heels with taller toe & 6mm delta stock

Is that right? Its kinda hard to keep all those straight.

[Benneke10]

I personally think the ATK Raider series is over priced and over rated, but something missing from this discussion is that ATK now makes their own 4mm toe shim designed for Raider toes that is much lighter and sleeker looking than the B&D option https://www.haganskimountaineering.c...2-pro-toe-shim

[plugboots]

Don’t forget mag spyderjon makes a shim as well.

[WhetherMan]

Atk Kuluar worth a look. 200g and a pretty full feature set. Superior to alpinist and about $280

Think the shim comes with the FR16.

The kuluar also caught my attention, but that 11.5mm delta is a bummer and I think you'd be in diy shim territory

[sweatypowderpig]

What’s the deal with the free ride spacer on the MTN. What do I need to know or check for?

nothing really, just follow the instructions. works great and i noticed an immediate difference with my heel no longer floating.

[CaliBrit]

The kuluar also caught my attention, but that 11.5mm delta is a bummer and I think you'd be in diy shim territory

Measuring myself with toe in locked position both FR14 and Kuluar are 11mm delta.

With the Kuluar being 2mm closer to the ski heel and toe.