The 300g Touring Binding Thread

[Benneke10]

has anybody tried matching Vario toes with ATK heels?

The idea would be to get a fully featured ATK heel together with the smoother Vario toe, adjust both to get the ideal delta (same as Pivots - replace toe spacer with something thinner or remove it all together). Ideally I would do it with Raider heels, but as I have Crests those are the more likely candidate. The Vario.2 heels just seem like a bother to tour with, no brakes and turning it to use the different riser heights.

I have come across two (2) separate people using a Trab toe with a Raider heel for the reasons you describe, and both said they were satisfied with the setup. That is a level of particular-ness with gear that I respect and they would probably enjoy posting here. I would feel a bit hesitant with that setup, as the toe has a bit of built-in elasticity that is designed to work with the very elastic heels (for tech bindings) that Trab makes. I don't understand the point of doing that with a Crest heel as the Vario.2 has all the same features except it does not come with a wide brake. I will say that while the Vario.2 brakes are heavier than ATK they function much better. If you need a fat brake I would recommend running the Vario.2 with Kreuzspitze Tech Brakes.

[kid-kapow]

I don't understand the point of doing that with a Crest heel as the Vario.2 has all the same features except it does not come with a wide brake. I will say that while the Vario.2 brakes are heavier than ATK they function much better. If you need a fat brake I would recommend running the Vario.2 with Kreuzspitze Tech Brakes.

the Vario brakes are too narrow for the widest pair. And yes, Crest makes a lot less sense than Raiders, but I have Crest heels whereas I would have to buy Raiders.

I am not concerned about the elasticty in the toes matching poorly with ATK heels.

The idea was to get a heel that does not need to be turned during the ascent / has easy to use risers, and adjustable release settings (the Vario is a U spring no?).

That being said, Vario's delta seem to be the same as that of Pivots - based on measuring it - so I'll try them as is and take it from there. Thanks for your input - much appreciated

[Benneke10]

The idea was to get a heel that does not need to be turned during the ascent / has easy to use risers, and adjustable release settings (the Vario is a U spring no?).

Vario.2 heel does not need to be turned during the ascent, its a similar riser system to the crest - riser that flips over the pins, flat mode and higher riser available if you turn the heel. The riser on the Trab is easier to use than the Crest but not quite as nice as the Raider magnetic system. Its a U-spring so you can't dial in the retention as specifically as an ATK.

[kid-kapow]

its a similar riser system to the crest - riser that flips over the pins, flat mode and higher riser available if you turn the heel.

So what you are saying is that you need to turn them to use the different modes?



That is one of the things that I love with Vipecs and Raiders - you have flat, mid and high all in the same setting, just through flipping risers, not turning and shit - I am not flexible enough to bend down

[Climber Joe]

I have a vario setup on a BD/ATK adjustment plate for the heel, and a B&D shim under the toes to level the delta.

I don’t see the need for brakes, or any fancy adjustability on the heel. The 10 release titan heel has everything I want and need, and even with the plates added in the bindings are astoundingly light.

I’d love to snag one of the Trab toe shims, as they seem much lighter than the B&D, but not a big deal.

If it weren’t for future ski boot changes I’d rather just run the titan without any plates. Somebody needs to make a worm screw plate with a lower tower height on the heel so the delta isn’t wonky.

[Benneke10]

I have a vario setup on a BD/ATK adjustment plate for the heel, and a B&D shim under the toes to level the delta.

I don’t see the need for brakes, or any fancy adjustability on the heel. The 10 release titan heel has everything I want and need, and even with the plates added in the bindings are astoundingly light.

I’d love to snag one of the Trab toe shims, as they seem much lighter than the B&D, but not a big deal.

If it weren’t for future ski boot changes I’d rather just run the titan without any plates. Somebody needs to make a worm screw plate with a lower tower height on the heel so the delta isn’t wonky.

That's the end-game setup, I have all my touring skis with that binding configuration except no toe shims. The Trab toe shim is 4.5mm thick and ~10g, as opposed to the ~30g B&D shims. You have to request the Trab toe shims specifically at skimo co but if I remember right they are cheaper than B&D.

[kid-kapow]

I have a vario setup on a BD/ATK adjustment plate for the heel, and a B&D shim under the toes to level the delta.

interesting.

The way I measure delta is to put the same boot in all my bindings and then measure from the top of the lugs (from the same spot, needs to be a bit in due to different bindings covering different parts of the lugs - I put a bit of tape on the boot and mark a straight line running from the front lug to the aft, level to the surface of the lugs) and down to the surface of a metal plate laid level on the ski. Varios and Pivots both yield a 12-13mm measurement. 1mm = 2.7 or so degrees at my boot sole length - 293mm, measured at 249. I've used xt3s for the measurements, different boots can yield very different findings.

[Climber Joe]

The other benefit to the Trabs shims is they probably don’t look this stupid



I think my dream frankenbinding is gonna be Kreuzspitze SCTT heels on the Kreuspitze adjustment plate that fits the dynafit mount pattern, then the trab toe and shim, for flat delta, and compatibility with my dynafit Jig.

[paj]

I've got a pair of 191 voile chargers (140-114-128 @ 1950g/ski) I'm planning to use for touring. My tour boots are Roxa RX tour 28.5 (~1400 g?). I want to use as light of a binding as reasonably possible without creating too much of a mismatch having too minimal binder on a big ski.

My current setup is backland 100s 180cm and ski trab titan varios. I'm 6' 210 lbs. From others experience, what binding should I look into to match the ski? I have a buddy with BD discount, and I have a pair of speed turns I could use on them, but don't really like the fully rotational heel piece and would like to go lighter if it doesn't badly sacrifice performance.

[ASmileyFace]

MTN/Backland? That's what I'd use, but I'm a simple man

[fleaches]

I've got a pair of 191 voile chargers (140-114-128 @ 1950g/ski) I'm planning to use for touring. My tour boots are Roxa RX tour 28.5 (~1400 g?). I want to use as light of a binding as reasonably possible without creating too much of a mismatch having too minimal binder on a big ski.

My current setup is backland 100s 180cm and ski trab titan varios. I'm 6' 210 lbs. From others experience, what binding should I look into to match the ski? I have a buddy with BD discount, and I have a pair of speed turns I could use on them, but don't really like the fully rotational heel piece and would like to go lighter if it doesn't badly sacrifice performance.

For pow skis I feel like just about anything will perform fine. I have trofeos on my BG108 and have been happy with the combo, except for having to turn the heel for flat mode.

Telemark pyranees sells them for pretty cheap, or get your friend with the BD hookup to get the BD version. I think they max out at RV 10 though.

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[timmaio]

Any experience with the brakes on the Plum Oazo or Pika? I don't care for the side toggle on the ATK and do like brakes when transitioning on firm snow.
Reason I don't like the ATK brakes is they tend to ice up and are finicky.

[auvgeek]

So I actually was planning to do what kid-kapow suggested earlier: Raider heels and Trab toes.

Does anyone know where to get Trab toes? skimo.co is out and isn't sure when they're getting more. I kind of hate to cannibalize my existing skis.

I'm heading to the Monashees for a hut trip in early Dec and I've got some new ON3P Woodsman 110 tours rearing for some binders.

[timmaio]

I have an extra pair of Trab Vario.2 7-9 heels but not extra toes

[Climber Joe]

So I actually was planning to do what kid-kapow suggested earlier: Raider heels and Trab toes.

Does anyone know where to get Trab toes? skimo.co is out and isn't sure when they're getting more. I kind of hate to cannibalize my existing skis.

I'm heading to the Monashees for a hut trip in early Dec and I've got some new ON3P Woodsman 110 tours rearing for some binders.

I feel like I check once a week at a minimum to see if they get trab toes in… that factory should be pumping out toes only 24/7 365.

They’re seriously the best tech toe

[Cocximus]

I am looking at crampons for the vario 2. They accept Dynafit, Kingpin and ATK. Any insight into which works better? The KPs look beefy, weigh as much as the Dynafit, and the shape at the end gives me the unfounded belief they might help on the way up. The ATK which are the same as skitrab are almost half the weight, but are they stiff enough?

[auvgeek]

has anybody tried matching Vario toes with ATK heels?

I have now.

[Norseman]

Skied em yet?

[auvgeek]

Yep. Ski great. Best touring setup I've ever skied.

[Lord Thomas]

auv

Fucking badass setup dude. Would like to hear more details on the whole setup when you made a few more laps on them. The collective needs to know

[thecazdog]

I've been running that setup too...I call it the Traider.

Trab toe with a 3mm shim.
ATK Freeraider 2.0 heel (with old school freeride spacer, no brakes)

Been skiing them with a BC Corvus in a 183cm (not the touring version). No probs driving that ski pretty hard.

Basically if the snow is at all soft the Traider kills it. If it's icy/firm, I'd much rather be on a lighter ski with a Tecton.

[auvgeek]

Love the name! Imma call it the Traider now too.

I have the stomp pad cover piece to run the Raider heels without brakes. I think I will probably remove the brakes and switch to leashes for steep, consequential terrain (in the spring), but I've been surprised at how much I've enjoyed using brakes for the first time in maybe 6-7 years. So simple.

For ice/firm and exposed, I personally wouldn't trust a Tecton over the Traider. Locked Trab toes give me much more confidence than the Tecton toe. Back when I had the Kingpin and switched to the dynafit superlight 2.0 heel, I was not been able to discern a difference in power transfer. That said, I don't really ski inbounds style terrain on my touring gear.

Seriously, I cannot get over how easy to use the Raider heel is. I basically just use the two riser heights (riser on pins and second height), and I can flick them with my pole handle so easily. Much easier than I could flick between the two on the Speed superlight 2.0. And I don't have to twist the heel to transition like I do with the Superlight 2.0 heel. Above an altitude of about 13k ft, I can get a bit lightheaded when bending over to rotate the heel.

Plus, step in is SO MUCH EASIER compared to the SSL 2.0. With the SSL 2.0. I would have to stomp out a serious platform and stomp into the heel. It really is a thing, especially for anyone with injuries. I can seriously drop cliffs with less force than stomping into the heels.

That said, I wish the Raider heel was lighter, gapless, with more elasticity. Basically the Trab heel with: a freeride spacer, a higher and adjustable RV, and a second flippable riser would be my ideal heel.

[Climber Joe]

PSA: trab Titan vario.2 toes are back in stock at skimo. So basically the Trab toe with the 4.5mm shim and longer screws

[auvgeek]

Well of course I pre-released right after I posted about how much I like the setup. For reference, I'm 5'11", 170# (trying to get back to 165), with the RV set to 12.

Toes unlocked, 40-45 degree wind-hammered firm. Not quite ice, but firm enough that foot crampons would be highly recommended if you were climbing it (I skinned up via a different aspect). It was like my second jump turn, and I'm lucky I was able to self-arrest before I picked up speed. It happened so fast, I have no idea if I pre-released at the toe or what. I transitioned with skis on, so it wasn't ice in the toe piece or anything else I can think of. I think maybe the ski flexed pretty deeply right around the time it popped off, but again I'm not 100% sure. It's the kind of terrain I usually ski with toes locked, but 1. it was firmer than expected after I had already dropped in and 2. I figured I'd see what happens with toes unlocked. (In hindsight, skiing solo in semi-consequential terrain is maybe not the best time to experiment with this.) The runaway ski got saved by a rockband I was navigating my way through. Getting the ski back on was an absolute pain, and I'm reminded again why leashes are nice.

So I locked my toes for the remainder of the steep, firm part, but unlocked after that. Mostly because I was curious if I could replicate the pre-release. About a minute later, I hucked a windlip expecting a soft landing, but it was wind-scoured ice.* I ragdolled a bit, but my skis stayed on. So still unclear to me what exactly happened there with the pre-release and I am pretty dang curious if it's something to do with mis-matched toes or what.

*that was lap 1 of 4, not sure the best decisions were made yesterday but it was a really fun day overall

[arild]

Well of course I pre-released right after I posted about how much I like the setup. For reference, I'm 5'11", 170# (trying to get back to 165), with the RV set to 12.

Toes unlocked, 40-45 degree wind-hammered firm. Not quite ice, but firm enough that foot crampons would be highly recommended if you were climbing it (I skinned up via a different aspect). It was like my second jump turn, and I'm lucky I was able to self-arrest before I picked up speed. It happened so fast, I have no idea if I pre-released at the toe or what. I transitioned with skis on, so it wasn't ice in the toe piece or anything else I can think of. I think maybe the ski flexed pretty deeply right around the time it popped off, but again I'm not 100% sure. It's the kind of terrain I usually ski with toes locked, but 1. it was firmer than expected after I had already dropped in and 2. I figured I'd see what happens with toes unlocked. (In hindsight, skiing solo in semi-consequential terrain is maybe not the best time to experiment with this.) The runaway ski got saved by a rockband I was navigating my way through. Getting the ski back on was an absolute pain, and I'm reminded again why leashes are nice.

So I locked my toes for the remainder of the steep, firm part, but unlocked after that. Mostly because I was curious if I could replicate the pre-release. About a minute later, I hucked a windlip expecting a soft landing, but it was wind-scoured ice.* I ragdolled a bit, but my skis stayed on. So still unclear to me what exactly happened there with the pre-release and I am pretty dang curious if it's something to do with mis-matched toes or what.

*that was lap 1 of 4, not sure the best decisions were made yesterday but it was a really fun day overall

Great feedback, glad you're all good. Any mishaps skiing the raider toe unlocked, for comparison's sake?

Cheers.

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